Baseboard heat or other radiant heat with no fan using espar for heat source.
- Thread starter javajoe79
- Start date
fluffyprinceton
Adventurer
When sleeping in freezing temps I generally run 2 of the 4 computer fans all night - all 4 if necessary. Necessary would mean to keep the cabin temps above 45F-50F while firing the webasto as little as possible, mostly because it disturbs my sleep somewhat. I set the webasto thermostat to 45F or 50F, it fires up when the cabin temp drops & cuts out when the temps hit their target. The fans run continuously, scavenging the stored heat in the system when the webasto shuts down. All the controls are by the bed so it's a simple thing to adjust as necessary. The addition of an aux pump that runs when the webasto shuts down might be helpful but doesn't seem necessary for my set up as it would just make noise & pump heat out faster than I need it while sleeping. Upon wake up I turn thermostat up & engage the floor & engine preheat if necessary - in the 30-40 minutes is takes to coffee up & eat the cabin is warm & the engine oil pan is 80F. As I mentioned I need a another radiator (no room to put a bigger one in the existing cabinet) to shorten the morning warm up time.
To be clear my 2 aux pumps are there to push the hot h20 through the floor & engine preheat circuits which are separate from the fluid flow that goes through the webasto but thermally connected via two heat exchangers.Moe
To be clear my 2 aux pumps are there to push the hot h20 through the floor & engine preheat circuits which are separate from the fluid flow that goes through the webasto but thermally connected via two heat exchangers.Moe
Coachgeo
Explorer
Instead of second radiator..... get up earlier and turn it on, then lie back down
better though... add a timer into the circuit somewhere? Maybe timer can connect second thermostate with a higher setting??fluffyprinceton
Adventurer
I'm gonna sound like a PITA whiner but...the noise of the webasto annoys me...I'm finally in the Big Empty, dawn & maybe birds & maybe it's just really quiet. Man...what's quiet worth these days? To me - a LOT. So getting the camper warm breaks the beauty. The webasto is not loud by any means - it needs the optional muffler to get the sound down to a low very distant roar & the floor circuit circulation pump has a bit of a whine to it but it's the only sound in many miles...Silence was one design goal & I fell short but it's still a great low amp draw heating system. Moe
Pinnacle Campers
Chateau spotter
I agree with this, I know it doesn't matter to some (hell they might be in a Walmart parking lot) but I prefer to be cold some mornings than listen to a turbo jet doing touch and go's under the van.
I'm thinking electric underfloor heating elements in the floor and bed panels....
doug720
Expedition Leader
We dry camp in the winter every year in our RV. AS discussed, most heating systems require too much power to run without generators, are noisy, etc. We faced the same problems even with our 600w solar and 8 6v battery system.
Our solution is a "Blue Flame" heater. These require no power to operate, are basically silent, look nice with the visible flame, inexpensive, easy to install, are fuel efficient, and most important, heat very well and fast!
Yes, they do produce condensation and Co2, but both can easily be dealt with. Co2 is deadly, but can be handled safely. I use 2 Co2 monitors, leave 2 vent sources open - high and low, plus the unit has Co2 monitor and automatic shut down. But the best way to deal with Co2, and what we do, is not sleep with the heater running!
Condensation is minimized by the same vents as the Co2, and has never been a problem.
This heater heats or RV - 340sf, to very comfortable temp in just a few minutes, has a great ambiance with the visible flame, and when not needed, we store it under the bed.
Just another option.
Our solution is a "Blue Flame" heater. These require no power to operate, are basically silent, look nice with the visible flame, inexpensive, easy to install, are fuel efficient, and most important, heat very well and fast!
Yes, they do produce condensation and Co2, but both can easily be dealt with. Co2 is deadly, but can be handled safely. I use 2 Co2 monitors, leave 2 vent sources open - high and low, plus the unit has Co2 monitor and automatic shut down. But the best way to deal with Co2, and what we do, is not sleep with the heater running!
Condensation is minimized by the same vents as the Co2, and has never been a problem.
This heater heats or RV - 340sf, to very comfortable temp in just a few minutes, has a great ambiance with the visible flame, and when not needed, we store it under the bed.
Just another option.
doug720
Expedition Leader
I should have been clearer on our Co2 monitors description. The units we use are monitors and alarms.
In the 5 years we have used the blue flame heaters, the only time a Co2 alarm has gone off was when I was warming the MH engine with the side door open. It showed they worked and they are loud!
In the 5 years we have used the blue flame heaters, the only time a Co2 alarm has gone off was when I was warming the MH engine with the side door open. It showed they worked and they are loud!
burquedoka
Adventurer
There is some great info here guys, thanks! But let's get something important clear, CO is the deadly byproduct of incomplete combustion, not CO2. Big difference.
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Anton2k3
Adventurer
For those that have successfully implemented UFH, what pump did you use to circulate the water? Im planning on using 10mm piping, so there will be a considerable amount of back pressure. Not sure a conventional magnetic drive centrifugal pump will be able to supply sufficient flow. A direct drive centrifugal draws around 16 amps!
Would love to see some pics and piping descriptions of people's radiant in floor systems. I'm just starting to lay out my espar system now. I'm using this as the forced air, hydronic air handler portion,
http://www.suremarineservice.com/RL6433.aspx
I was advised by the guys at sure marine as well as the guys from heater craft to size the air handler atleast as big as the espar if not bigger to prevent short cycling.
And then some finned tubing for radiant under the bed heat, as well as running it through the water heater.
But I haven't sorted what to use for the radiant infloor tubing.
http://www.suremarineservice.com/RL6433.aspx
I was advised by the guys at sure marine as well as the guys from heater craft to size the air handler atleast as big as the espar if not bigger to prevent short cycling.
And then some finned tubing for radiant under the bed heat, as well as running it through the water heater.
But I haven't sorted what to use for the radiant infloor tubing.
Anton2k3
Adventurer
Im using 2 x eberspacher helios fan heaters for the air handling part. I'll also have a towel rail in the bathroom, 40l calorifier, and the under floor heating. Eberspacher D2 airtronic as backup heater.
For the floor heating, make sure you implement as per a household system:
http://www.u-u-h.com/technical/10-manifold/
80 degrees c is too hot, so you'll need the mixer setup with a separate circulating pump. The system essentially allows some of the 80 degree coolant to be bled into the system when the temperature has dropped. I'm going to go with this mixer I think:
http://www.bublshop.co.uk/esbe-vta323-hot-water-thermostatic-mixing-valve/p1174
Its this second circulating pump I'm struggling with.
For the floor heating, make sure you implement as per a household system:
http://www.u-u-h.com/technical/10-manifold/
80 degrees c is too hot, so you'll need the mixer setup with a separate circulating pump. The system essentially allows some of the 80 degree coolant to be bled into the system when the temperature has dropped. I'm going to go with this mixer I think:
http://www.bublshop.co.uk/esbe-vta323-hot-water-thermostatic-mixing-valve/p1174
Its this second circulating pump I'm struggling with.
javajoe79
Fabricator
That looks like a nice air handler for the price. Definitely worth considering for me but I will probably first try my home built setup made mostly from stuff I have lying around