Baseboard heat or other radiant heat with no fan using espar for heat source.
- Thread starter javajoe79
- Start date
Coachgeo
Explorer
question..... on cooling the heated water so not to overheat the camper.... makes since to first pump some of that into the engine to warm it..... if that is not enough; or instead, why not just mount a small radiator outside and run it thru that to cool it down some?
Consider as well putting extra heat into storage? as in if you got vehicle engine umph to carry some extra weight.... move some heat into a large container of salt to store the heat. Can use to store engine heat from driving to use later for camper heat at night that way. This way your camper heater (no matter the type) will not be needed as early into the cold night to keep the cabin warm. Granted installing, plumbing, heat controlling etc. of the salt container may not be so easy so my ideas may be overly simple? That and finding a storage vessel that the salt won't corrode may not be a simple task either.
hmm.... guess one could actually heat the fuel tanks as storage as well? Just watch that on some engines the IP uses the diesel fuel as lube... and you get less lube properties when diesel has lower viscosity... and heat would lower its viscosity.... though I do not know how much.
Consider as well putting extra heat into storage? as in if you got vehicle engine umph to carry some extra weight.... move some heat into a large container of salt to store the heat. Can use to store engine heat from driving to use later for camper heat at night that way. This way your camper heater (no matter the type) will not be needed as early into the cold night to keep the cabin warm. Granted installing, plumbing, heat controlling etc. of the salt container may not be so easy so my ideas may be overly simple? That and finding a storage vessel that the salt won't corrode may not be a simple task either.
hmm.... guess one could actually heat the fuel tanks as storage as well? Just watch that on some engines the IP uses the diesel fuel as lube... and you get less lube properties when diesel has lower viscosity... and heat would lower its viscosity.... though I do not know how much.
loonwheeler
Adventurer
On many installations, the calorifier is run in parallel (or even series) with the heater to absorb extra heat. Same concept as you describe but instead of heating salt or fuel, I think heating potable water makes the most practical sense. Other options should be explored if the calorifier doesn't serve as a large enough reserve for the heat.
As an added bonus if you can control the circuit's coolant pump independently of the heat generating source, it makes it easy to extract heat from the storage bank without cycling on the heater.
Coachgeo
Explorer
With more and more folk going to instant Colarifier/Water heater.. then that is not an option as the heat storage bank.
guidolyons
Addicted to Gear Oil
My 2015 Sprinter/Winnebago Era has hydronic heat and it's not as awesome as I was hoping. It's not a 4 season RV, and I've stayedin it into the low 30s*F (nothing prolonged below freezing) It uses an Alde system (instant hot water, plus a glycol loop for heat) The glycol loop is not tied into the engine coolant. The Alde works great for hot water. I'm less impressed with the radiant heat. There are 2 fairly large finned radiators (looks similar to large baseboard heaters) on each side of the van, in theory the Alde heats the glycol, a thermostat controlled pump circulates the glycol through the van, there are no fans it relies solely on convection. warm air rises, cold air gets warmed. It does "work" but not great, in reality, I end up using a Mr. Buddy portable propane heater. It would definitely be warmer if they ran the glycol loop in the floor as well, and had some sort of fan system. A warm floor would be nice for cold feet. My wife always has cold feet. When you are cold, sometimes you need that blast of warm air.
I think I'm going to add two 12V computer muffin fans on each side and see if that helps circulate the warmer air.
More work, but I might add a Espar Airtronic D2, since pulling the floor to add a glycol loop would be nearly impossible without dismantling the whole van.
Ideally, I'll convince the wife to trade in for a 4x4 Revel or maybe build out my own 4x4 Sprinter.
I think I'm going to add two 12V computer muffin fans on each side and see if that helps circulate the warmer air.
More work, but I might add a Espar Airtronic D2, since pulling the floor to add a glycol loop would be nearly impossible without dismantling the whole van.
Ideally, I'll convince the wife to trade in for a 4x4 Revel or maybe build out my own 4x4 Sprinter.
Last edited:
bahncamperworks
Member
We use the Alde system for lpg installations and have had very good results. It is important that the cabinets are designed with the natural convection in mind so that the air can circulate easily. If the vents get covered at all the heat can't get out. We also run the glycol loop through our floors which also helps extract more heat from the system. The natural convection is extremely nice if done properly, virtually silent operation!
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bahncamperworks
Member
Thanks! I can try to snap a few specific shots to show how the "convectors" are built in to the cabinetry to facilitate efficient heat transfer. The Alde system is log only but we have installed the same in floor heat and convectors with an espar d5 and had equally good results. I believe webasto makes a gasoline fired boiler which could also be installed in place of the Alde unit. Of course it would take a customer control module but that's not too big a deal.
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Coachgeo
Explorer
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why are folk putting any of the in floor heating tubes in the floors that fall inside a cabinet??
guidolyons
Addicted to Gear Oil
Bahn campers works can probably explain it better, there are two or three large finned heat exchangers (Alde calls them "convectors") down each side of the van, behind the cabinets. There are vents along the floor and along the top of the cabinets to let the warm air circulate naturally based on convection.
https://www.alde.us/what-is-alde/
http://www.alde.co.uk/design.php#siting
I wish my hydronic heat was tied into the engine coolant as well (either directly or through a liquid to liquid heat exchanger)
http://roadtreking.com/alde-hydronic-system-works/
bahncamperworks
Member
For the true in floor heat the tubes are only placed under open space floor (ie: no cabinets above) but we do still run hydronic lines throughout the "basement" area under the cabinets as that is where grey and fresh water tanks are usually located. The big idea is to heat soak the whole camper, not just a column of air.
bahncamperworks
Member
You got it! The image from the Alde site shows what they recommend.
Davidl13- The big difference is the hydronic heater vs. the forced air unit. The hydronic unit heats coolant to ~175*F and then circulates it through a series of heat exchangers. We can install forced convectors (radiators with computer fans) to help bring the temp in the camper up quickly but once the camper is heat soaked the circulation pump is all that is needed. The pump is virtually silent- no more waking to the fan/heater kicking on throughout the night. It should be noted that the forced air units will bring a camper up to temp faster. Hope this helps!
-Ryan
bahncamperworks
Member
Here are a few shots from a recent build. The convectors are placed inside the black sheet metal cover. The grating allows for natural convection to extract the heat from the convector. The placement behind the seating and under the window also gives a very comfortable/warm feeling when seated- the heat comes up from the back of the seat and you feel it on your upper back and neck. I also threw in a shot of the outside because... well... It's pretty unique...
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