Bear safety in RTT's and soft sided campers/tents

[JKJenn]

Sort of bizarre that this has turned into a gun vs. bear spray thread. I am very pro-2nd amendment and don't begrudge you carrying guns, but it isn't for me for a number of reasons.

The original question had to do with safety of RTT's in bear country. I become interested in this thread because I would like to do some camping in the Monongehela National Forest, where bear incidents have grown more common. From what I gather, if I keep a clean area, store all food and garbage in my JK, I should be fine in my RTT in black bear country. Also sounds like, although unlikely that I would need it, not a bad idea to have bear spray handy when in bear country. Now, the gun could in handy if I came across the Utah mountain man who is on the lam.

Also seems like hitting the panic button on your car keys isn't a bad idea. I also like the air horn idea. Seems like a cheap solution for different kinds of intruders.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Spray is OK for most Black bear encounters, but keep your pepper spray in Grizzly country and I'll see your remains on the trail some day. l]

I lived in southeast AK for many years and managed one of the largest outdoor guiding services in the state. Every year we'd order several dozen cans of bear spray and use quite a good number of them during the year. Mostly spraying bears (huge coasty browns) that got too close to camp areas or even the random bear standing in my yard. Our 30+ guides always carried and used spray. While only two events in my memory included charging or bluff-charging bears, in both cases the spray worked as advertised. I've only sprayed a few brownies and it's impressive to see the effects. Would I keep a can in my RTT, sure.

 

[66LV]

If you plan on driving to Alaska Canadian Customs will not normally allow you to take a firearm into Canada. Pepper spray you can buy once you are in AK. Bells and whistles sound too natural to be a deterrent to grizzly bears. The human voice is unique to them so your loud voice is the best deterrent when camping and hiking. I would be most worried about bears if you were camping in an area close to where people live and bears associate humans with food. At Denali NP you should be fine if you take standard precautions when camping. I camped in my Maggiolina last summer in AK and I worried mostly about mosquitos.

 

[Corey]

http://www.amazon.com/Frontiersman-...VAHK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330276113&sr=8-1

Going to order this today.
Only black bears where I go.
The spray and my Glock 21sf will give me some piece of mind.

 

[Vince1]

Hmm. Spray vs gun. At first it makes little sense to carry both as you'll only have time to use one or the other. A rifle is your best friend when it comes to field protection, just ask any African guide, but large caliber ones are cumbersome to carry. So maybe the best bet is to carry spray, but have a properly loaded handgun in case it fails, or in case the wind is going the wrong way. Precautionary measures can make sure neither is ever used. Separate yourself from what they are after, your food. Dine at one site, move and sleep at another. You can get most bears out of your campsite by banging pots and pans together. I think a gunshot would have the same effect. Honestly though, I don't believe a RTT offers any more protection than a ground tent. Bears climb atop cars all the time around here, and pry doors open just to get a bag of chips. They especially know what coolers look like, and the rewards inside them, so never keep one in your Jeep. Find a site far away and hang it up. Ive had a bear break into my home twice, once while i was in the next room. On the latter occasion, it quickly scattered as soon as I turned on the light and sceamed, but I was amazed at the damage it caused in a matter of seconds. He pulled the entire door off the refrigerator and mangled it and broke french doors like they were toothpicks. I don't know what I would have done had he charged me. I would love to know if any of the tasers now in use have any effect on a bear, but until then, I think a shotgun with slug shell is a good thing to have while camping in Grizzly country, and not a bad thing to keep around the house, as I now do. Look at the bright side about camping....at least you don't have to worry about sharks!

 

[Christophe Noel]

I would love to know if any of the tasers now in use have any effect on a bear,!

A taser or gun have to overcome a bear's inherent strengths. Bears are engineered to overcome some insane wounds and still keep charging, biting and swinging those big paws. Our guides were shown a video of a brownie fighting another brownie. One had an entire paw chewed off. He won the fight, believe it or not. The amount of adrenaline a bear can produce is impressive.

Spray is designed to debilitate a bear's other great strength - his nose. A dog smells 100 times better than a human. A bloodhound's nose is 300 times better than an average dog. An average bear's snoot is 2100 times stronger than a humans. A naturalist who gave a presentation to our guides said a human walks into McDonalds and smells food. A bear walks into McDonalds and smells EVERYTHING, down to the bubble gum the fry cook is chewing. Bear spray is like a lightning bolt to that olfactory system. That same naturalist said it would be like blowing a train whistle next to your head. So, again, not a bad thing to have at the ready in the dark hollows of a tent, RTT or not.

 

[StaceyE]

My concern with camping in Bear country is we sleep right on top of where we sleep and cook. there is no "cook and keep food away from where you sleep". The whole purpose of the trailer we built was to keep everything contained in one unit - pull out kitchen, store foods on shelves, sleep in RTT. This being said, for me, if I were camping in Bear Country I think the electric fence idea makes sense. I know, some of you hard core guys think thats being a whimp. As long as I can sleep soundly I can handle being a whimp. Will be purchasing the fence this week.

 

[Christophe Noel]

My concern with camping in Bear country is we sleep right on top of where we sleep and cook. .

Gotta say, that would make me nervous. Very nervous.

 

[mountainpete]

Let's start with a pic:



This was my camp last year at a lake in BC. You'll notice that we had a fire and cooked where we camped. In there area, there isn't space to do otherwise. We spent three nights at this camp knowing that on the other side of the lake, about 2 miles up, a very large male grizzly was spotted. We also knew that this area has many black bears. On the hill behind us were wild strawberries that were just not yet ripe enough to eat.

Am I concerned about sleeping in a roof top tent in an area like this? Yes. I think it would be foolish not to be.

In order to reduce the risk, we always take the following precautions:

1. We respect that we are guests in the bear's home. It's our job to be aware and stay away of them, not the other way around.
2. We keep the campsite very clean and place dry garbage in a safe place or burn them completely.
3. We ALWAYS keep a large canister of bear spray within reach. It has a spot on the tailgate of the truck and at night it is beside me in the tent.
4. I personally keep bear bangers within reach or on me and if I see something far in the distance, I will set one off. See: http://kananaskisblog.com/bear-bangers/2009/
5. We make noise in the camp at random intervals. If I hear something, I have even been known to set off the alarm in the truck at night.
6. We dispose of any dirty liquids at least 100 yards away.

I also believe that people who think the can take down a charging grizzly with a handgun are either expert marksman or delusional amateurs - there is little middle ground with a true attack. Noise is the biggest deterrent for a bear within visual range. While a handgun is an effective noisemaker, there are better options in my opinion. A shotgun with slugs and buckshot can be valuable in an attack in trained hands.

Pete

 

[Christophe Noel]

Great post, Pete. Really great.

I was often a nervous wreck when guiding up to 15 clients on mountain bikes in thick bear country. We had our food in a 10' trailer and usually cooked our meals as far from our sleeping quarters as possible. Everyone had spray. Lots of noise made all day and night long sometimes.

One thing I remember very well. At the end of every dang trip we'd be cleaning up tents and find all sorts of food wrappers and residue inside. This after we'd tell people NOT to take food to bed. Aye!

 

[mountainpete]

Thanks. You make a good point about food inside the tent as well - I try to ensure that only water and medication is the only thing "edible" in the tent. That smell lingers and for ground tents can lead to a seriously annoying ant problem.

Pete

 

[Corey]

Gotta say, that would make me nervous. Very nervous.

Unfortunately those with off road tear drops, AT, and Sierra type trailers have built in kitchens where you cook, store your food, and your fridge, so what do you do?
My ARB fridge is inside of my rig just a few feet below me when I am sleeping in my tent.

I have seen shotguns listed here as well, I think the Kel-Tek KSG would be a wise choice since it has two tube magazines capable of having buckshot in one tube, and slugs in the other tube, all available with the flip of a lever to select which tube you want.

This gun is on my shopping list.

 

[Corey]

Been surfing YouTube for sprays, just ran across this short one.


http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...6l9484l0l13880l7l7l0l0l0l0l163l1027l0.7l 7l0

 

[willywaxer]

"I also believe that people who think the can take down a charging grizzly with a handgun are either expert marksman or delusional amateurs".
Pete[/QUOTE]

well, tell that to these hikers: http://www.nationalparkstraveler.co...-hikers-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943
Nine rounds, no problem in a surprise attack. There's a whole sport of hunting bears with handguns you folks should be aware of. Nobody is disputing the superiority of a rifle or shotgun, but don't discard the handgun as an effective tool, particularly if you never used one on a bear. Of course, none of these weapons will be any good if you aren't trained to properly use them.

 

[upcruiser]

Some great discussion here. Since my trip this coming spring and summer entails a couple of international border crossings, bringing a shotgun or a hand gun isn't going to happen. I like the idea of doing some camp perimeter bear spraying in conjunction with keeping a clean camp and hanging food away from the vehicle and tent. Keeping spray on my person and in the RTT along with a boating portable air horn will likely be the way I go. Is there issue with bringing bear spray across the Can/US border?