'Burb buying advice

[Kyle Kelso]

Hey gang

I sold my truck yesterday and I feel pretty confident I want to buy a Suburban. With just my wife's car left I need something to haul our pop up trailer, get us out into the bush and have room for 2 large dogs in their kennels plus our stuff. We only have 1 kid so the 3rd row isn't necessary but I want the cargo space, plus I've been driving full size trucks for several years so even a suburban is downsizing.

I've been back and forth between the 90's gmt400 and the 2000's gmt800 series and also between the 1500 vs 2500. The reality of what we likely WILL do with the vehicle, a 1500 would probably suffice but I would sure like to know I have a stronger tranny and beefier rear end to put a locker in. The 5.3 gets decent enough fuel economy I would be fine daily driving and commuting with it, step into any of the bigger engines and that situation just gets worse...

What I have just found for sale up here in Alberta is a '99 k2500 4x4 out of California with under 100,000 miles with the 454 (7.4) vortec and from the pictures it looks super clean. It is priced lower than the clean gmt800 1500s I have found and with lower mileage. I have not found any clean or decent mileage gmt800 2500 yet.

I don't have anything heavy to tow and I'm not looking for a tow vehicle. Just something strong and reliable that can handle some bigger tires and a small lift with a rear locker and a winch and get us and our stuff out into the wilderness.

If it were just for a camping / trip vehicle I wouldn't think twice, but having to daily drive a 454 has my wallet shaking in fear! I wonder if the extra insurance on a $800 **** box commuter would be cheaper than the extra gas for the big block?

For what it's worth, history will say I'm not the type of person to keep a vehicle for several years despite what I might tell myself and my wife... But I will say I'd like to have this long term if I find the right one!

I'd sure appreciate some feedback and advice. I've been doing lots of reading but I'm not a chevy guy myself and I figure this group would have more relevant advice for me than a chevy/towing forum.

 

[tbisaacs]

GMT 800 checking in here. I lusted after a 100-series Land Cruiser / LX for a while but didn't want to pay the cost of admission. The burb really is in a class of it's own when you consider price, availability, cost to own, and SPACE.

I paid $7500 for a 2004 Z71, all options (tow package, G80, climate control, bose, etc) with 175k. It was mechanically fine but I baselined it with new 33" Cooper ATPs, brakes and rotors, diff/t-case/trans service, etc. Fixed all kinds of other odd-and-ends and I'm still in it for less than $10k.

I almost held out for a 3/4 ton / 6.0 / barn-door configuration but just couldn't find one locally in the condition / price range that I was looking for. I don't plan on any heavy towing, but really wanted the "overbuilt-ness" of the 2500.

It's a beast. I would buy it all over again. Go for it.



P.S there are a few other 'Burbs floating around here—look for users rayra, upcruiser, jelorian, geonracing, kins18q, boss324, martinjmpr.

 

[rayra]

all the elements are in your OP, OP. You want the 2500 with a 5.3. That's an odd bird in my experience. The 5.3 will do what you want, the missus and I have been driving / light-to-moderate towing with them and the earlier 5.7 for years. They'll do the job and give you 14-15mpg on the hwy if you have a light foot when you aren't towing and not much less when you do.
But you are more likely to find 2500s with a 6.0 and then you're talking about barely 10mpg.

The missus is at 170k+ mi in her '05 K1500 Tahoe with no sign of any trouble from her trans and it's almost all highway commuting mileage and road trips. My '02 Sub was purchased 2yrs ago at 116k and is kinda sloppy in the trans. I've done fluid swaps, 'high mileage' fluid, and am exploring options. I've done some light towing already, I expect to haul a pop-up camper trailer a couple times this year in the western mountains. I'm concerned it might be the death knell for my trans. I'm already shopping 4L65E rebuilds for if and when. With such a thing I think my K1500 Sub will then do everything I want it to with little concern. In the meantime I've found a trans temp monitoring solution so I can be sure to keep it out of the 250F+ death zone.

In hind sight, in my own protracted search for this Sub - almost 2yrs of occasional shopping - I couldn't find a 2500 that didn't have a big-bore motor. And the Sub I bought was the only one that had an acceptable (to me) combination of cosmetic and mechanical condition. And it was Black. I really didn't want a black vehicle in the SoCal deserts. I'd made that mistake before, 30yrs prior. But it took so long to find an acceptable cosmetic/mechanical vehicle that I quit caring what color it was. Around greater Los Angeles, they were almost all 2WD mom-taxis, abused inside and out. And the 4WD were far flung on the periphery of the county and being used hard recreationally, beat up in different ways and the interiors cooked. So when I finally found a 4wd GMT800 that was decent both cosmetically and mechanically, I grabbed it.

I have to repeat that I think the GMT800s are really in the 'sweet spot' in terms of value, parts availability and cheapness of repair. Especially if you can do your own work. Rockauto.com has just been an amazing revelation to me, in terms of inexpensive parts. Much cheaper pricing than any of the chain stores.

 

[Yroundrdn]

I went with the 2500. I found with all the trucks I've bought in the past, I ended up needing the extra a few times and was always glad I stepped up. If for the only the drive train I say it's worth it. Also, some of the 2500s came with the HD towing package that includes the G80 Gov locker, skid plates and 410 gears. I have the 7.4 in mine and feel anything else would be way under powered, especially with the extra weight that comes from all the add-on stuff we install. I did the math from this motor and my old Jeep and it was only about $25 more every 1000 miles. Given the strong motor, durability and power of the 7.4, it was worth a few bucks each trip IMHO.

 

[upcruiser]

I went through the same process, my main difference being I wanted to use the truck to tow our 4,200lb, 23' ultralight camper. I went with a 2004 2500 with the 6.0 and 4.10's and ambulance doors. I really love this truck and glad I went this route. It's a great blend of truck and comfy road tripping comfort. With 33's and unloaded I see 10mpg around town and 14mpg highway. In reality it's a touch higher sincecmy speedo is off from the oversized tires but that is hand calculated.

The appeal of the 2500 was the idea of a platform that was less stressed and the stronger drivetrain. I was leery of the transmission and rear end issues of the 1500's. That said, the 1500's have a much better ride and can deliver better economy. My 2500 I had to run Bilstiens, D rated tires, and install onboard air so I could air it down whenever driving on anything more than bumpy dirt roads. Those things allowed me to achieve a comfortable ride in the rough.

I searched for awhile before finding this example, a pampered truck from Texas. I also paid a premium for it but was fine with that as I planned to have this for awhile. Things to avoid when shopping for these outside of the normal stuff... the autoride suspension, it is expensive to replace and difficult to upgrade..... I would look for a pre drive by wire model as I don't care for it, makes for jerky driving when you are trying to use gentle throttle inputs......the auto climate control equipped models seem to have more failures.....

People with the 8.1's rave about them, I have been perfectly content with our 6.0/4.10 setup. The 8.1 does take another hit with mileage unloaded but seems pretty close to the 6.0 towing because it works less. I see between 7-9 towing our camper. Averaged 8 on a 5,000 mile trip last spring across the western US towing our camper. Hope that helps. My thread was linked in an above post and I have a bunch of thoughts and feedback about our truck which was stuff I couldn't find feedback on when I was researching these things online. You might find it useful.

 

[Martinjmpr]

all the elements are in your OP, OP. You want the 2500 with a 5.3. That's an odd bird in my experience. The 5.3 will do what you want, the missus and I have been driving / light-to-moderate towing with them and the earlier 5.7 for years. They'll do the job and give you 14-15mpg on the hwy if you have a light foot when you aren't towing and not much less when you do.

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Was there ever such a combination as a 2500 with a 5.3? I thought the 5.3 was only on the half ton trucks and the 2500s all got either the 6.0 or the 8.1?
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I know on the GMT 400 series trucks you could get a 2500 with either the 5.7 or the 7.4, (didn't they even offer a 1500 with the 7.4? I don't know that I've ever heard of that but my understanding was that on the GMT-400 trucks the engine options were not tied specifically to which model you bought.)
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In any case, for a DD (and remembering that the OP is in Canada where gas is significantly more expensive than in the US) I think a 1500 might be a better choice. Around town I get 11 - 13 and towing on the highway (2000lb high-profile trailer) is about the same. On the highway without the trailer I've gotten as high as 19.5 mpg!

 

[Martinjmpr]

BTW I would love to have gotten a GMT-800 2500 'Burb. But around here, at least, you will find one 2500 'burb for every 10 or 15 1500 'burbs. That means that if your heart is set on a 2500 you will have a lot fewer to choose from, and you will have to take what you can get: High miles, body damage, lack of options, etc.
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When I went shopping for my 'Burb in 2015 I knew I wanted, at the very least, leather seats, a 2nd row bench, and steering wheel controls. Those features were pretty easy to find in 1500's (since they are quite common around here) but many of the 2500's I saw on line were "fleet" vehicles and had the "poverty package" that I didn't want. They also had high miles.
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I was fortunate to find a reasonably low mile (136k) one-owner LT with every option I wanted and no options that I didn't (sun roof, 2nd row buckets, air suspension) for a decent price. I would like to have found a Z71 but every Z71 I saw was either black (black and dark blue are the only colors that are deal breakers for me) or had the 2nd row buckets that I didn't want.
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It hasn't been a cake walk, in 14 months and 20,000 miles I've had the transmission rebuilt, the rear brakes replaced and an intake manifold gasket replaced (done under warranty by the dealer that sold it to me because the truck wouldn't pass emissions inspection without it.) Nevertheless it's been a pretty solid vehicle overall and I have to say, now that I've gotten used to all the space, it would be tough to go back! In terms of interior room, the Suburban is really in a class by itself.

 

[Kyle Kelso]

I didn't think the 2500 could be had with the 5.3 in the gmt800 chassis. Probably thinking 5.7 in the older gmt400. If the low mileage 454 I found had a 350 I would have bought it already! Pretty sure they still have the same upgraded drive train as the 454 equipped versions but I'll have to read up on that again...
My best guess based on mileage reports is that I'd be paying ~$1000 more per year on fuel for the 454 vs the 350, maybe a bit less as I'd imagine the mpg gap narrows when you add bigger tires and more weight to both. 5.3 I know does a bit better yet unloaded but I think suffers more of an mpg penalty when taxed so probably equal to the 5.7 for my usage (this all just me spit balling here).

I based this on an assumption of roughly 19,000 miles or 30,000km per year. (Probably a bit high)
If I split that mileage 50/50 with a cheap old econo-box I'd save roughly $2000 per year on fuel but have to pay extra insurance so probably a wash with driving a 5.7 2500 or a 5.3 1500.

The clean gmt800 1500 trucks I've found are all $2-3000 more with close to twice the mileage on them, which means they are getting close to tranny rebuild time. I will keep searching for a 5.7 2500 in good condition as I think that would be perfect for me but I think for the price and condition I can swallow the gas bill on the 454.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Back in December I sold our diesel Silverado with (very rare)manual transmission and picked up a Yukon(same as Suburban) because I needed something with 4 doors and room for car seats and our 2 dogs that will easily tow our boat. We regularly get 14+mpg with our 2003 Yukon XL 2500 that has the 6.0, I do not have a light foot but do try to use the cruise at 75mph or so, a tune-up and programmer will do wonders to add a few hp and increase mpg. We never really tow anything heavy but wanted the bigger brakes and beefier transmission, so the small block in the 2500 chassis was the answer. And the gmt400 with a 350 in the 2500 chassis is hard to find but they do exist, I found one when I was searching but it sold before I could go look at it. The 454 is a great engine that will tow well, but I could never justify one as a daily driver, thankfully our Yukon is a 3rd vehicle that only gets driven about 40 miles a week. We got very lucky with it being the exact chassis and seating arrangement we wanted, has the 2nd row captain's chairs with the SLT package that gives you heated leather and Bose surround with rear DVD, even has the 3.73 axles I wanted. I bought the Yukon from the original owner with 126k miles for $5k, needed a water pump and a tune-up but knew that when buying and were easy to do in an afternoon. Good luck in your search and feel free to post any specific questions, I grew up in a GM truck family and have owned a few myself and feel they do indeed make the best truck you can buy.

 

[tbisaacs]

I didn't think the 2500 could be had with the 5.3 in the gmt800 chassis. Probably thinking 5.7 in the older gmt400. If the low mileage 454 I found had a 350 I would have bought it already! Pretty sure they still have the same upgraded drive train as the 454 equipped versions but I'll have to read up on that again...
My best guess based on mileage reports is that I'd be paying ~$1000 more per year on fuel for the 454 vs the 350, maybe a bit less as I'd imagine the mpg gap narrows when you add bigger tires and more weight to both. 5.3 I know does a bit better yet unloaded but I think suffers more of an mpg penalty when taxed so probably equal to the 5.7 for my usage (this all just me spit balling here).

I based this on an assumption of roughly 19,000 miles or 30,000km per year. (Probably a bit high)
If I split that mileage 50/50 with a cheap old econo-box I'd save roughly $2000 per year on fuel but have to pay extra insurance so probably a wash with driving a 5.7 2500 or a 5.3 1500.

The clean gmt800 1500 trucks I've found are all $2-3000 more with close to twice the mileage on them, which means they are getting close to tranny rebuild time. I will keep searching for a 5.7 2500 in good condition as I think that would be perfect for me but I think for the price and condition I can swallow the gas bill on the 454.

OP there is an odd-ball option: chevy introduced the LTZ for the last year of the GMT800 line.

It's basically a Z71 with some chrome, nav, and the 6.0/4L65. Basically a Denali with true 4wd.

Might be a good compromise. Doesn't carry the same weight penalty of the 3/4 ton.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/689403080/overview


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jeep-N-montero]

OP there is an odd-ball option: chevy introduced the LTZ for the last year of the GMT800 line.

It's basically a Z71 with some chrome, nav, and the 6.0/4L65. Basically a Denali with true 4wd.

Might be a good compromise. Doesn't carry the same weight penalty of the 3/4 ton.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/689403080/overview


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't that still have the smaller brakes and weaker trans?

 

[Kyle Kelso]

Ya, not quite what I'm after with bigger engine in 1500 chassis. Although slight tranny improvement. I couldn't give a rip about Nav, shiny chrome, even leather. We've been sucked into that stuff for the last couple new vehicles we've bought, now I'm more looking to K.I.S.S! Seat covers go in the washing machine almost as easy as leather wipes up and we have a portable DVD system for the kid

I appreciate all the feedback though!

 

[ChevyPit]

I've had my share of suburbans (6) and silverados (6), and all I can say they all have their pros and cons. It will all depend on your really intend of use.
- GMT 400. I've had K1500, K2500, C1500. My daily driver and favorite is the K1500 for what I do 90% of the time (highway miles, and some dirt roads, I've taken it on tough offroad roads, and it's been great). I said I've never buy a K2500 with the 454 because of gas consumption, and 4 years ago I bought one with a bad transmission. Fixed it, and it was an awesome vehicle. Sold it to one of my best friends, and Yes, I regret it. I drove it around 700 miles/month, so the extra gas wasn't that bad. It is on a different league than the K1500, better transmission, axles, brakes, chassis, but also parts are a little expensier. So my opinion would be: if you are towing above 4,000 lb or offroading hard get a K2500. If you plan on running 33" tires (I run these), the 3.73 axle handles it. If you plan on running 35", first you'll need a lift, and then at least 4.10 axles (which my K2500 had from factory).
- GMT 800. Currently have C1500, K1500 (avalanche), 2wd Tahoe. The 5.3 is a nice engine, it gets 3-4 mpg more than the 5.7, but it has lower end torque, but it's a faster reving engine. Rear Suspension is the big difference here, on the 1500 line you get springs on the back, which is softer than gmt400. I have a k2500HD Silverado with the 6.0 and 4.10 and it gets 1-2 mpg more than the 454.
Since I sold the K2500 I've been wanting another one, so right now I'm looking at a 98 K2500 (like the one I use to have), and at a 2000 K2500 with the 6.0.
I will suggest, get the cleanest, more taking care off you can find. These are +15 years old vehicles, that if taking care off will live long more. Make your numbers and how many miles a month you plan on driving it and conditions, and see what fits your needs.
If you have some more questions fill free to ask.

 

[Tinbanger]

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5984095959.html

 

[Kyle Kelso]

That looks nice and very similar to the one I'm eyeing up, except that is the equivalent of $21,000 canadian plus I would need to get it home and import it.
The one I found here is under $7000! Maybe it doesn't run or something... lol

Nevermind, the problem with the one I found is that it sold already. Dang guy didn't have time to meet yesterday...