Buying & Building a Medium Ambulance into an RV – The FAM-BULANCE

[patoz]

Regarding my earlier comment about the quality / durability of standard off-the-shelf RV equipment, a friend of mine who is an ambulance electrician replied:

"It's a shame isn't it. The RV stuff I shop from time to time looks the same as the novelty stuff from the 70's."

I never thought about it that way, but he's 100% right. All the stuff you could buy to "dress up" your car back then was all flash, and would sometimes be thrown directly into the trash can when the package was opened - the kind of stuff that you'd see at a garage sale (unopened), or at a flea market (also unopened).

So true, and it's not just RV stuff it's everything, because it's all Chinese junk!

When I was growing up, we would get stuff that said 'Made in Japan' on the bottom, and that meant it was the cheapest quality piece of crap around, but now look...they make some of the finest products in the world and we pay dearly for them. I guess they got the last laugh after all.

And the good old 'Made in America' stuff (if you can even find it) has gone up so high in price, you can barely afford it.

 

[rlrenz]

Even though the refrigerator is an Italian product (the 164 page instruction manual starts with Italian instructions, then hits every other European language, then finally gets to (British) English), it was made in China. Par for the course these days.

The design and assembly are down right beautiful. I've been running it since I unpacked it (VERY well packed!) to cool some beverages, and the fan in my 12 VDC power supply is much louder than the fan they have for the refrigerator's condenser. I am very impressed with this refrigerator.

I didn't go with a huge refrigerator - I have several large coolers that will slide into a side compartment, and no refrigerator cools like ice cools. It's not cheap, but you know it's gonna work.

 

[patoz]

I don't have much room in mine for a refrigerator, and since most of my trips are going to be short weekend type outings, I have thought about a small ice maker and a couple of good coolers vs. an installed refrigerator. Start out with stuff in the coolers packed in ice, and then keep topping them off as needed. I'll have shore power and an onboard Honda 3KW generator to power it, but of course it requires a water supply also.

I not necessarily looking to power it with 12VDC also, since I'm building a camper trailer out of mine instead of a complete vehicle, but it would be nice if available.

What do you think of that concept?

 

[rlrenz]

That should be workable, but a lot depends on the capacity of your ice maker, and how often you add warm stuff to the coolers. If you're just working to keep what's cold cold, it shouldn't take a lot of ice. The ice maker might be a bit of a power hog, though.

In my case, I need a refrigerator to qualify for a MN RV license plate

 

[patoz]

That should be workable, but a lot depends on the capacity of your ice maker, and how often you add warm stuff to the coolers. If you're just working to keep what's cold cold, it shouldn't take a lot of ice. The ice maker might be a bit of a power hog, though.

In my case, I need a refrigerator to qualify for a MN RV license plate

I'm lucky in that respect here in Florida, I went to see the DMV here and they said it will be no problem registering mine as a RV after it is converted. As long as it has one of these three things, it qualifies.

1. Water system - no specification of what it consist of.
2. Propane system - no specification of what it consist of.
3. 115VAC electrical system - no specification of what it consist of.

She saw the outlets in a couple of pictures and said I was good to go. Since she's one of the inspecting officers, I certainly hope she knows what she's talking about. I do have her card and the paperwork she gave me with that printed on it, in case I get someone who says different when I go to get it registered and get a tag for it.

 

[rlrenz]

I drove the ambulance to one of the largest ambulance dealers in the US yesterday. They regularly remount (new truck, rebuilt ambulance module) ambulances, and their customers nearly always want new air conditioning. They had just removed the 120 VAC air conditioning unit (a Hoseline unit) from a module they were rebuilding, and I was able to buy it for a whale of a lot less than new.

It will have a front-of-module condenser, a compressor probably mounted under the module, and a dual evaporator to handle both the engine AC, and the 120 VAC AC. It needs a control module to get the two systems to cooperate with each other, and an 80 amp 12 volt supply to run the condenser fans and the AC blower. The end result is about 12,000 BTU.

That will make it more humane for me to work in the module in the summer, and I can also plug 'er in somewhere else. A 4000 watt generator is also in the works - I've looked at both the Onan Emerald series and the new Microquiet generators. The Emeralds are an older design that are fairly bulky (and are no longer made), but only 1800 RPM, while the Microquiet units are 3600 RPM units that are probably both half the size, and half the weight. I've always leaned towards an 1800 RPM unit, but then I realized that virtually every generator Onan sells for RVs is 3600 RPM (gasoline & propane). I can only assume that the design of modern engines is a lot more sophisticated than the old B&S or Kohlers that I remember from only 30 years or so ago. I haven't seen any postings of engine problems - the most common problem seems to be a control card.

The old Emeralds use the same engine I remember fighting with in an arc welder many many moons ago, so I have a bit of prejudice against them - but I'm starting to think that the new Microquiets might be the way to go. I still have months to figure it all out, but the Micros might win out.

Tune in tomorrow....

In other news:

I finally have a handle on the beast's heating system. As near as I can tell, it has a hot water circulating pump that comes on with the AC/HEAT switch, and that pump also supplies the cab's heating system. I'd always thought that the AC/HEAT switch was just for the module, but then I saw that it can be on with the module being off (based on the pilot light). When it's on, I have plenty of cab heat -- when it's off, no cab heat. EUREKA!

 

[rlrenz]

The plot thickens--

I've been trying to figure out the ambulance's heating system all summer. The AC system was easy - turn it on and it works. If the module is turned on as well, the larger module condenser kicks in, and the AC discharge temperature drops about 10 degrees.

The heating system has always been a puzzler. I've already figured out that the AC/HEAT switch has to be on before the cab would do any heating. I was unable to get the Medic Master manual with the ambulance, and I've been looking for any Medic Master manual from about 1999 for system clues, but no luck so far. Today I made a titanic discovery - the cab heat is controlled by the module thermostat. There isn't any heat in the cab until the module thermostat calls for heat - then there's plenty. Today was warm for October, and the module thermostat was set for only 60, so there wasn't any heat coming out of the cab heat grills. I set the module thermostat for 75, and I had cab heat all over the place.

It kinda makes sense - the module is the whole reason for the ambulance. With the door between the module and the cab open, the driver could run the cab heat in recirculate mode for window defogging and such, and the module would take care of temperature control.

At any rate, that's my state of the art right now.

 

[patoz]

For the sake of continuity I copied your post from your other thread, and posted it here since it's about the Freightliner Ambulance.

I'm looking at the Onan Microlite 4 KW, running on propane...

...The generator may wind up on a set of slides to make service easier. A Honda would do the job, but I want to build in a generator so I can use it anytime, anywhere. A Honda would have to be set up next to the ambulance.

I'm curious as to why you say a Honda could not be mounted inside? Or do you specifically need a 4,000 watt generator, and the Honda EM4000S is a cage mounted model which is not really suited for our needs?

I already have a Honda EU3000iS which I'm thinking of mounting in the left front (#2) compartment on a slide out, if it will fit. It will require forced ventilation and the exhaust routed outside of course, but there are all kinds of third party accessories for doing this as a lot of people use this generator precisely for this purpose.

Here are a couple of sources with pretty much everything for the Honda, just in case you decided to go that route. These include remote start kits, propane conversions, auxiliary fuel tank kits, and exhaust kits.

http://www.generator-line.com/index.html

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-EU3000iS-Tri-Fuel-Kit.asp?page=Honda_EU3000iS_Tri_Fuel_Kit

http://www.pinellaspowerproducts.com/products/2/products-for-honda-generators#cat_7


EU3000iS - FEATURES
3000 watts, 120V
Power for your furnace, fridge, microwave, most 13,500 BTU RV AC units, and more
Super quiet - 58 dB(A) @ rated load, 49 dB(A) @ 1/4 load
Convenient electric start
Fuel efficient - up to 20 hrs on 3.4 gal of gas
Inverter - stable power for computers and more (this is a necessity for me)

Some interesting mounting ideas ideas for the Honda also...

http://www.pinellaspowerproducts.com/ideas/

 

[rlrenz]

I'm prejudiced towards Onan. They are made here in the Twin Cities, and I have friends who design their products. One of my oldest friends and I used to design specialized installations for mobile applications.

There's nothing wrong with Honda - I just like Onan.

 

[Gatsma]

Plus, now Onan is owned by Cummins, which to me means they are on very stable footing, and will be around quite a while; but then so will Honda....
Either is a great choice; just comes down to preferences.

 

[patoz]

I'm prejudiced towards Onan. They are made here in the Twin Cities, and I have friends who design their products. One of my oldest friends and I used to design specialized installations for mobile applications.

There's nothing wrong with Honda - I just like Onan.

Haha! OK, just wondering if you knew something I didn't know.

 

[rlrenz]

Not a problem. Many moons ago, I used to build some very peculiar generators, usually using diesel engines, into custom packages designed for roll in -- roll out installations. I'm kinda thinking I might do the same on the ambulance, and build in a roll out capability for service. That's going to happen down the road, maybe next summer, maybe the following summer. Even though a generator is compact doesn't mean that the service man is also compact...

 

[sojourner]

Not a problem. Many moons ago, I used to build some very peculiar generators, usually using diesel engines, into custom packages designed for roll in -- roll out installations. I'm kinda thinking I might do the same on the ambulance, and build in a roll out capability for service. That's going to happen down the road, maybe next summer, maybe the following summer. Even though a generator is compact doesn't mean that the service man is also compact...

I'd like to see this, especially with a small 1 cyl diesel. My ambulance has only one storage box 19" long, 12" high and 14" deep but I was able to fit a 5hp briggs that spins an alternator and york compressor. If I had the room I'd go diesel but adding the compressor is another idea if you run a v belt set up.

 

[rlrenz]

There are a few folks out there making small diesels - one is Stadco (http://stadcogen.com/), who starts at 6 KW - another is Central Maine Diesel (http://www.generatorsales.com/diesel-generators.asp), who offers a Yanmar 5 KW diesel for $3375. The Yanmar is a straightforward design, but it might be a little loud for many campgrounds. It is available with remote start and all the rest.

The key to making a slide-out is figuring out how to slide it out. Back in my railroad passenger car generator days, the standard approach was to use a set of bolt-on external support rails - when you needed to roll the gen out for service, you'd install the support rails, then pull 'er out. For smaller generators (about 800 lbs), the rails would hook on to the car-mounted structure, while for the big diesels (about 3000 lbs), the rails would be secured in place with one bolt. The smaller generators had a very interesting suspension - the generators rode on steel wheels about 7" in diameter-- the wheels all had compression springs for spokes to minimize shock and vibration. The wheel's roll-out bearings were just sloppy bronze - if the generator didn't move when one or two people pulled on it, and you couldn't get a forklift so you could pull harder, you would oil the bearings, then they'd usually come out.

A somewhat more civilized approach is to use electronics chassis slides to do the same thing. Heavy duty slides get very expensive very fast, but surplus chassis slides from rack mounted equipment are often available as surplus, and they're often rated at well over 150 lbs. One thought would be to mount the generator so when the gen is rolled back into place, each of the 4 corners are supported by a solid point so the slides aren't carrying the weight until they need to.

I already have the engine driven Hoseline AC system - what I'm adding is a separate 120 VAC AC system, also by Hoseline. It will have a separate compressor and condenser, but the existing evaporator will wind up with a second AC core.

 

[java]

A generator slide sounds so amazing. After fighting my Onan 6.8Kw out from under my truck, then trying to get it lifted back up and the bolts aligned, sliding sure would be nice.... I will say the Cummins had the part i needed in stock locally for a 20 year old generator, that was nice, I was worried.