Canadian Disco 2 Build

[R_Lefebvre]

No doubt I will have proper work lights installed for reversing. These are really just "signal lights". I just figure it would be a bit goofy to have the work lights come on when backing out of a parking space at the mall... I just... eh... wish I could find something better than these. I'd love some small panel mount worklights, but I haven't found anything like that.

 

[SeaRubi]

Quick note, Rob - is that on a couple different aftermarket Jeep bumpers I've seen they cut a rectangular hole the exact size of the shackle mount and then welded it front and rear. food for thought, perhaps.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Uh, not quite following the question. I did exactly what you described. Cut holes through both sides of the bumper tube the same size as the shackle mount, and will have it welded front and rear. And in fact, the brackets line up exactly with the frame, so I could tie it in that way somehow if I felt the need but I think it's unecessary.

 

[SeaRubi]

no question there - I'd incorrectly assumed you were going to just weld it flat onto the face and thought I'd toss the idea out there if you hadn't considered it yet. sounds like it's ready to be sewn up.

I was going to mention - you should spend some time over Pirate4x4 reading some of the old weld critique threads. Hours of entertainment. Especially for some of the dudes using pipe as roll cage material. :elkgrin:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, I figure about 8 linear inches of weld into 1/8" wall, giving 2 sq.in. of weld, at a really conservative 20,000psi tensile... you're talking 40,000 lbs of pullout. And all of that is not counting the fact that the backside of the bracket will be welded directly to the 1/4" mounting plates for the bumper.

Compare that to a 3.5t DB tow point with a roughly 1x4" footprint using a backing plate from a vendor with the same dimensions. Provides only 1.25 sq.in. of shear plane. If you have 1/4" wall, then you get 2.5 sq.in. Better, but not drastically so.

The weakness of the shackle mounts is the torsional loading that comes in when doing a side pull. But then I cringe when I think about doing a vertical pull on the 3.5t DB jaw, along it's narrow axis.

I like swivel eyes the best, but they're pretty expensive, and hard to get a good mount into a typical bumper. You'd need a massive backing plate, which I don't think most people are doing.

 

[Murphey]

The difference is a bolt will stretch and a poor weld will crack and pull apart. A bolt gives you a warning before it fails, a weld does not. A bolt is made to a better quality standard, and a weld can be all wrong from the get-go. Any moron can bolt a recovery point onto a vehicle, but not any moron can weld correctly.

Point is, there is a right way and a wrong way. Welded recovery points are the wrong way of doing things. I don't care if you're a "certified" welder or a weekend welder, welding recovery points is the wrong way of doing things. Period. It does not matter what your uncle Joe said about the welded recovery points on his 1976 Bronco.... It the wrong way. Some clubs will not even allow you to participate in trail riding with their group if you have welded recovery points http://www.baltimore4wheelers.org/ohv 2009/2009_OHV_registration_form.pdf

 

[BIGdaddy]

bumper looks real good, Rob. keep it up.

happy holidays!

-Brian

 

[I Leak Oil]

Some clubs will not even allow you to participate in trail riding with their group if you have welded recovery points

I've seen this somewhere also but can't remember where. The club's reasoning was that it is easier to inspect the member's bolted on recovery points than it was to guess at the integrity of a welded recovery point. They also stated that their rules had nothing to do with a bolted on unit being better than a properly welded and designed unitand admitted it was for
the club's convenience only.

 

[Alaska Mike]

I've only seen that applied where somone welded a cast recovery hook to the frame or some other botched method installing a recovery point. I'd trust an Ike Goss bumper, and they have welded recovery points. Most commercial bumpers with shackle-type recovery points installed are welded, some less securely than what Rob is planning.

Then again, the variety of clubs out there and ways bylaws can be interpreted are endless.

 

[michaelgroves]

I don't care if you're a "certified" welder or a weekend welder, welding recovery points is the wrong way of doing things. Period.

You make some reasonable points about the advantages of bolts over welds. So far, so good. But there's a sudden leap to "no weld is good enough". There's nothing wrong with a well-designed, well executed welded solution. Actually, at some point, almost any recovery point relies on some welding anyway.

 

[SeaRubi]

hmmm ... the welded tabs on my Warn Jeep bumper seemed plenty strong enough. I don't know of a single aftermarket Jeep bumper that uses bolt on recovery points. If a small firm of < 20 people are willing to risk being sued and going out of business because of a failed weld and injury I can't see how your theory about welded tabs being correct.

What of the factory welded Class III towing hitch?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

The difference is a bolt will stretch and a poor weld will crack and pull apart. A bolt gives you a warning before it fails, a weld does not. A bolt is made to a better quality standard, and a weld can be all wrong from the get-go. Any moron can bolt a recovery point onto a vehicle, but not any moron can weld correctly.

Point is, there is a right way and a wrong way. Welded recovery points are the wrong way of doing things. I don't care if you're a "certified" welder or a weekend welder, welding recovery points is the wrong way of doing things. Period. It does not matter what your uncle Joe said about the welded recovery points on his 1976 Bronco.... It the wrong way. Some clubs will not even allow you to participate in trail riding with their group if you have welded recovery points http://www.baltimore4wheelers.org/ohv 2009/2009_OHV_registration_form.pdf

Or a poor bolt will crack and fall apart. Bolts often give no warning before failure. Some bolts are made to poor quality standards. Any moron can bolt a recovery point on incorrectly.

 

[xwerx]

Personally, I prefer welded recovery points. I am a welder for a living, I work in a manufacturing plant that builds 5th wheel hitches for the trucking industry. If my welds can hold together while hauling huge loads, I think they would survive on a recovery point. BAE systems uses our hitches on military applications. Good enough for government work..

just my .02

 

[Murphey]

Or a poor bolt will crack and fall apart. Bolts often give no warning before failure. Some bolts are made to poor quality standards. Any moron can bolt a recovery point on incorrectly.

This is acutally a lame attempt to justify your part. It's 100% incorrect and something we've become to expect in your posts. There is a name for comments such as this; it's called being a rookie and too stuburn to listen to others who know better. It's understandings such as yours, and cheap budgets that make up a poor quality part. I hope others who follow or come along this post as smart enought to take 15-minutes to do their own research or consult someone who knows better.

Welded recovery points are wrong
Bolted recovery points are correct
End of story

 

[Murphey]

Personally, I prefer welded recovery points. I am a welder for a living, I work in a manufacturing plant that builds 5th wheel hitches for the trucking industry. If my welds can hold together while hauling huge loads, I think they would survive on a recovery point. BAE systems uses our hitches on military applications. Good enough for government work..

just my .02

So, would you be willing to pull someone else out who welded their own recovery points on in their garage with their 110v welder and fluxcore wire?