Chrysler on boad with 54.5 MPG CAFE requirement for 2025. Fingers crossed

[Dan Grec]

The Obama Administration today pushed through the new CAFE standards for 2025

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/b...s-tighter-fuel-efficiency-standards.html?_r=1

They'll have to have CAFE of 35.5MPG for 2016 and 54.5MPG for 2025.

I wonder what kind of improvements this will lead to in the Jeep lineup?

Fingers crossed for the big D

-Dan

EDIT: Looking around the web, it appears many people are crying "IMPOSSIBLE!".
Before anyone does that here, this is a list from 2009 that lists 15 cars that get over 56MPG http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/02/report-all-of-europes-15-most-fuel-efficient-cars-get-better-t/
If Europe can do that in 2009, I hope America can by 2025.

 

[CodyY]

How am I supposed to haul shingles and ladders in a SMART or Fiat?

 

[Dan Grec]

How am I supposed to haul shingles and ladders in a SMART or Fiat?

Obviously they're not expecting everyone to drive a SMART car.

I'm saying that Europe was already producing cars that get > 56MPG in 2009, so American automakers have 16 years to improve the technology, and get more and more efficiency, until it's viable to push bigger and bigger vehicles while still getting such good economy.

The VW Amarock, on sale now, can haul your shingles and ladders and it gets > 30MPG.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/04/volkswagen-amarok-pricing-starts-at-around-35k.html

16 years is a long time to improve on that.

-Dan

 

[cobound]

How am I supposed to haul shingles and ladders in a SMART or Fiat?

No ****! I'll refrain from my usual diatribe on this subject, won't scream impossible, but there are simply too many variables in ones life that won't allow one to own a puddle jumper. And owning purpose specific vehicles on top of a fuel mileage vehicle aren't always practical.

The day I'm given a choice to buy an affordable vehicle that will haul 7 people, 7-8k pounds, etc, and get 55 mpg...I'll buy it. That is nowhere in sight right now, much less 16 years from now!

Continue on...

B

 

[DaveInDenver]

What is keeping those little diesel cars and small trucks out of our market? An XtraCab D4D Hilux would serve a very nice replacement for our trusty '91.

 

[goodtimes]

The day I'm given a choice to buy an affordable vehicle that will haul 7 people, 7-8k pounds, etc, and get 55 mpg...I'll buy it. That is nowhere in sight right now, much less 16 years from now!

Continue on...

B

There is a reason that the second letter of that acronym is "A" and the third letter is "F".


Average Fleet

Not every vehicle needs to meet that standard - just the average of all the vehicles. But I bet you already understand that.

If you (anyone) look at it from a different perspective (IE: don't look at it as someone trying to tell you that you have to drive a tiny little car), the numbers aren't that bad.

If 80% of the cars that a particular manufacturer builds & sells are achieving 60mpg (in 2025), and the remaining 20% of the fleet (IE: the full size trucks, large SUVs, etc) is getting 30mpg, then you're looking at a average fleet economy of 54mpg.

It's not *that* big of a step. We already have 3/4 and 1-ton trucks giving up 22mpg (unladen) and still have the ability to pull huge loads, and we have non-hybrid cars returning upwards of 50mpg. These are available - today -. Deployment of that technology across a wider range of vehicles (IE: more small diesel powered cars like the Jetta) make a 30% increase over a 16 year period little more than child's play for these companies.

There will always be families that won't fit in a small car - there's nothing wrong with that. There are 'big' cars for a reason - some people need them. There will always be trucks for a reason - some people need them. But lets be honest - most people don't need them, and even if most people did need them, it's still not a good enough excuse to stop advancing the fuel economy of modern cars & trucks.

 

[brushogger]

The problem is the tighter emission controls. Those diesel pickups aren't nearly as reliable as those of 10 years ago and the required maintenance is almost at the point it has to be used commercially to justify ownership. I have had several friends get rid of their late model diesels because of this and seek out clean, older trucks. One guy with a hot shot business has set up his fleet of five 3/4 and one tons that vary from 1994 to 1999 Dodges that have been refurbished mechanically to new specs. He said he can run them for a fraction of what the new ones cost to operate, and they don't shut down because some emission sensor or computer malfunctions. The new trucks were having lots of these issues.


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[haven]

Just to remind everyone, 54 mpg in CAFE numbers is not the same as EPA mpg ratings. The estimates I've seen put the equivalent EPA mileage rating at 40-42 mpg. Still a daunting task, no doubt, but there are 13 years to go to reach the goal.

Another factor to remember is that the CAFE target is adjusted based on the vehicle "footprint," which is calculated by multiplying the wheelbase by the track of the vehicle. So large SUVs and pickups will have a lower CAFE target.

It's good that the auto makers are taking this seriously, and are already putting forth an effort.

 

[seand]

the new stuff coming out in the next few years should be pretty cool to see. one loop hole is flex fuel vehicles that run on e85 the mpgs are figured differently.

 

[CodyY]

Obviously they're not expecting everyone to drive a SMART car.

I'm saying that Europe was already producing cars that get > 56MPG in 2009, so American automakers have 16 years to improve the technology, and get more and more efficiency, until it's viable to push bigger and bigger vehicles while still getting such good economy.

The VW Amarock, on sale now, can haul your shingles and ladders and it gets > 30MPG.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/04/volkswagen-amarok-pricing-starts-at-around-35k.html

16 years is a long time to improve on that.

-Dan

Yeah, even if I didn't require more towing capacity than a wet sack, the last line of your link says "not imported to the US".

 

[drbandkgb]

The full size trucks will get a pass on the MPG.. I was told this by a auto maker..
But expect a nice MPG tax on them.. They will be commercial autos.. instead of personal

 

[Dan Grec]

the last line of your link says "not imported to the US".

Remember, we're talking about 13 years from now.

-Dan

 

[CodyY]

The full size trucks will get a pass on the MPG.. I was told this by a auto maker..
But expect a nice MPG tax on them.. They will be commercial autos.. instead of personal

I pay an mpg tax already. By sheer consumption I pay more gasoline taxes than someone who drives a Civic. 16mpg mixed hurts bad enough.

Remember, we're talking about 13 years from now.

-Dan

13 years ago you couldn't safely pull 8,000 lbs with 150hp/200tq midsized truck, why will you be able to do it in 13 more years?

Not trying to play Devil's advocate here, but physics is physics, and being a "commercial" vehicle with a pickup in DC/NYC is probably legitimate as a plumber/roofer/etc.

But here in TX, and with MY lifestyle and employment I need a full-size truck. And it's not the governments business to screw with my day to day "operations" like that, comrades.

 

[4x4x4doors]

EDIT: Looking around the web, it appears many people are crying "IMPOSSIBLE!".
Before anyone does that here, this is a list from 2009 that lists 15 cars that get over 56MPG http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/02/report-all-of-europes-15-most-fuel-efficient-cars-get-better-t/
If Europe can do that in 2009, I hope America can by 2025.

Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
Euro certified fuel consumption is based on a different sized gallon, a different set driving/test course, and tuned to meet different emissions/pollution standards. Not "better" or "easier" but different.

 

[Frank]

Sounds like an attack on the free market to me!

I know this sounds insane to think about but if you build a vehicle that a consumer wants, gets good mpg, seats the average American family with groceries at an affordable price, people will buy it! Do we really need a govt standard to tell us this?