Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[Clutch]

Just spent the day helping my neighbor purchase a 2016 Ram Ecodiesel Tradesman at a local dealer. He needed to replace his '92 3/4 Dodge Cummins which he totaled after having put 400K on it since new. He's got a 23' Airstream to tow, and didn't know the Ecodiesel existed. Without my prompting, he tried the Toy dealer first and was less than impressed with the Tundra. Tacoma was a non-starter due to lack of towing capacity.

I'm not a fan of full size, but I'm impressed with the Ram and Ecodiesel engine. We pulled 22 mpg over the 40 miles back home, really smooth ride for an empty pickup, and more than adequate acceleration. I doubt he'll take it off-road, but it will be interesting to see how it pulls his 6000# trailer.

It peaks my interest, just don't know if I could buy a brand with one of the worst reliability reputations after owning Toyotas for so long.

The Ram's mileage and rear coils are the only things that interest me. Looks I am averaging 30K miles/year now...any new vehicle I am out of warranty real quick. Kinda why I keep the old one going, $35Kish for a new Tacoma buys an awful lot of repairs and fuel for what I already have. Luckily we live within walking distance of her work, so if the Taco is down for repairs I take her SUV. Which does have rear coils, and rides awfully nice. I could swap vehicles with her, but I liked driving a manual over an auto. The OME Dakars are fatigued enough now, that they don't ride too bad.

 

[phsycle]

Hope the friend gets 400+k miles out of the new eco-diesel. I looked at those. Payload is too light for a 1/2 ton. About the same as my Tacoma. That, and I didn’t need a diesel.

Tradesman trim ought to reduce the likelihood of issues. Electrical stuff is what I fear the most of Ram’s. Drivetrain seems to be pretty stout.

 

[Clutch]

Hope the friend gets 400+k miles out of the new eco-diesel. I looked at those. Payload is too light for a 1/2 ton. About the same as my Tacoma. That, and I didn’t need a diesel.

Tradesman trim ought to reduce the likelihood of issues. Electrical stuff is what I fear the most of Ram’s. Drivetrain seems to be pretty stout.

Payload is ok for me, as I would load it like a Tacoma...the possible high 20's 30 mpg, does peak the interest. But reading up there are some flaws with that engine, and some other fussy issues like you said. Used market prices aren't too bad, found a couple low mile ones around the $25K mark. Which I think is a good price for a basic pickup truck. But alas...don't think I could pull myself to buy one. First problem, know I would be kicking myself. Toyotas are too engrained into my blood at this point...why they keep on selling the Tacoma they way they do.

Every time I go look at other brands, I say oh yeah, it is real nice, but it isn't a Toyota...

 

[phsycle]

Payload is ok for me, as I would load it like a Tacoma...the possible high 20's 30 mpg, does peak the interest. But reading up there are some flaws with that engine, and some other fussy issues like you said. Used market prices aren't too bad, found a couple low mile ones around the $25K mark. Which I think is a good price for a basic pickup truck. But alas...don't think I could pull myself to buy one. First problem, know I would be kicking myself. Toyotas are too engrained into my blood at this point...why they keep on selling the Tacoma they way they do.

Every time I go look at other brands, I say oh yeah, it is real nice, but it isn't a Toyota...

Which is why I went with a Tacoma (even for the second round!) over the GM twins, and even the upcoming Ranger. And Frontiers never did it for me, for some reason. Although had an Xterra been available, it may have been a contender, with its 6-sp manual and 4.0 V6. (But honestly would’ve still gone with a truck). And with all your talk (and DiD’s) about manual transmissions, it left but a couple of choices. Toyota, manual, no-brainer.

Good thing is, I’ll have many years in this Taco to see how the new diesels do and how the Ranger eco boost fares.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Every time I go look at other brands, I say oh yeah, it is real nice, but it isn't a Toyota...

A friend said something that sums it up for me. It's not that Toyotas necessarily last any longer, the Big 3 trucks have a lot of heavy duty parts (the discussion was in context of comparing a F250/F350 to a 70 series). It's that they are designed to be fixed. That's why I stuck with them and got a Tacoma, I dunno.

 

[Clutch]

Which is why I went with a Tacoma (even for the second round!) over the GM twins, and even the upcoming Ranger. And Frontiers never did it for me, for some reason. Although had an Xterra been available, it may have been a contender, with its 6-sp manual and 4.0 V6. (But honestly would’ve still gone with a truck). And with all your talk (and DiD’s) about manual transmissions, it left but a couple of choices. Toyota, manual, no-brainer.

Good thing is, I’ll have many years in this Taco to see how the new diesels do and how the Ranger eco boost fares.

A friend said something that sums it up for me. It's not that Toyotas necessarily last any longer, the Big 3 trucks have a lot of heavy duty parts (the discussion was in context of comparing a F250/F350 to a 70 series). It's that they are designed to be fixed. That's why I stuck with them and got a Tacoma, I dunno.

When I jump into any Toyota, my hands fall naturally on the controls since have been driving them for so long...that anything else feels alien. After wrenching on them over 26 years...I know them inside and out, maybe not to the detail of @DaveInDenver, but I am very comfortable with them. So there is something to be said that they don't radically change things.

 

[phsycle]

I certainly do appreciate the familiarity, even going from a 1st Gen to a 3rd. Maybe not everything. Maybe it's just the "T" on the steering wheel, but it feels good. Maybe I, too, will cry when they change up too many things on the truck.

 

[phsycle]

Just looking at this picture again. Wonder why he's got the bed platform so high. I'd have put it right above the wheelwells, where it's already got cutouts for supports. He'd be able to sit straight up then.

Great. Now I'm getting ideas thinking seriously about getting a topper and building a platform.

 

[2manyprojects]

I think Toyotas have always had some of the best ergonomics in trucks without being over the top. I've always valued the fact that when they release a new model, you can expect it to be around for a number of years, with progressive improvement each year. The former Big 3 use more of a "hit or miss" product development mode, scraping a model quickly or just plain abandoning it. Just compare service manuals; I've always been able to read and follow a Toyota, while the chevy's are more like working a jigsaw puzzle.

That all said, it seems to me the market is somewhat in a rut. The midsize market is growing, but most everything is comparable in performance and economy with me-too offerings. A few are stepping out with diesels, but really 1/2 ton full size trucks are being divided into lighter, more frugal versions to catch the buyer who wants the size and maybe more economy and is willing to compromise on payload and performance. Reliability and durability are still judged a lot by reputation, and the buying public seems content overall with less than what was offered 20-30 yrs ago.

In the end you find your balance and go with it. The combinations that we all value unfortunately are disappearing, and at some point you're faced with picking from the current available options.

 

[Clutch]

Just looking at this picture again. Wonder why he's got the bed platform so high. I'd have put it right above the wheelwells, where it's already got cutouts for supports. He'd be able to sit straight up then.

Great. Now I'm getting ideas thinking seriously about getting a topper and building a platform.

Probably up so high for storage. All compromises ya know.

I used to do the sleep under the topper thing for years before I discovered Wildernests.

Morning’s view...only working a half day today. Decided to head to the lake that is just down the road from the house to fish before I go in.



This spot is good in the spring when it is full...can get in here with a small kayak or float waders.

 

[battleaxe]

To be honest, I'd love to see them figure out the back seats on these trucks. Give them a little more leg room.

I'd take a 6" shorter bed, if the cab were longer some.

Also, if you're never going to offer a diesel in North America, let's see a v8 option. If you can put them in the Lexus, and used to put them in the 4runner, put them in the Taco too.

 

[Clutch]

I think Toyotas have always had some of the best ergonomics in trucks without being over the top. I've always valued the fact that when they release a new model, you can expect it to be around for a number of years, with progressive improvement each year. The former Big 3 use more of a "hit or miss" product development mode, scraping a model quickly or just plain abandoning it. Just compare service manuals; I've always been able to read and follow a Toyota, while the chevy's are more like working a jigsaw puzzle.

That all said, it seems to me the market is somewhat in a rut. The midsize market is growing, but most everything is comparable in performance and economy with me-too offerings. A few are stepping out with diesels, but really 1/2 ton full size trucks are being divided into lighter, more frugal versions to catch the buyer who wants the size and maybe more economy and is willing to compromise on payload and performance. Reliability and durability are still judged a lot by reputation, and the buying public seems content overall with less than what was offered 20-30 yrs ago.

In the end you find your balance and go with it. The combinations that we all value unfortunately are disappearing, and at some point you're faced with picking from the current available options.

Toyotas always fit me well. I feel little lost sitting in a full-size. My wife and I aren’t big people. She is 5’4” and I am 5’8”...probably why I run my mouth so much...have to make up for my size deficiency. . Ha ha!

Biggest complaint is the loss of the simple bare bones pickup...though gotta admit power steering, power windows, and AC is awfully nice. The new nannying stuff have a hate/love affair with it. None in my truck but I can see it being handy. Never fails, no matter how many times I check my blind spots someone always slips in.

 

[phsycle]

Probably up so high for storage. All compromises ya know.

I used to do the sleep under the topper thing for years before I discovered Wildernests.

Morning’s view...only working a half day today. Decided to head to the lake that is just down the road from the house to fish before I go in.

View attachment 481555

Nice view. I could do with either a pop top or regular shell. I'd love a GFC, though.

To be honest, I'd love to see them figure out the back seats on these trucks. Give them a little more leg room.

I'd take a 6" shorter bed, if the cab were longer some.

Also, if you're never going to offer a diesel in North America, let's see a v8 option. If you can put them in the Lexus, and used to put them in the 4runner, put them in the Taco too.

Agree with the back seat. But not the V8. Doesn't need it. Payload is too weak for any serious hauling. Heavy as well, taking away more payload. Diesel makes sense only for giving the truck range, as @DaveInDenver has pointed out before. I'm completely satisfied with the 3.5L and 6MT. Personal preference, yes, but glad it's worked out in my favor.

 

[2manyprojects]

Toyotas always fit me well. I feel little lost sitting in a full-size. My wife and I aren’t big people. She is 5’4” and I am 5’8”...probably why I run my mouth so much...have to make up for my size deficiency. . Ha ha!

Clutch, you just hit on why I like the mini '84-'89 Toys so much....

 

[bkg]

But not the V8. Doesn't need it.

How dare one suggest such a thing!!!

A 1uz or 2uz would have been awesome in a Tacoma... One of the only reasons I looked at the Gen4 4Runners years ago was the v8... too bad they were AWD only... that (and the locations of the power windows/locks) was a turn off..