Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[phsycle]

...I want to like the new Tacoma, but I just can't get o board with the new 3.5l v6. I've driven it a bunch of different times and I just don think it belongs in a truck, even a midsized one. The part-time Atkinson cycle sounds good in theory, but the engine's high-reving nature makes me wonder how efficient the truck will be in the long run, especially when expo'd up.

As has been reiterated by @DaveInDenver and @Clutch, I've also come to the realization that you don't buy Toyota's for engine power. Or fuel efficiency. Compared to the competition, they will fall behind. Although they've done a good job, in my opinion, on the 2GR. Nice bump in fuel efficiency and I think it has plenty of power for what it is. It does not compare to a 2.7 ecoboost. But it has plenty of get up and go for me. Hauls up to the payload just fine.

Longevity wise, I don't know. There are a few that are well over 100k. But time will tell. Remember 2TR/3RZ (2.7L) are/were also "high-revving" but no issues with reliability.

 

[Dalko43]

As has been reiterated by @DaveInDenver and @Clutch, I've also come to the realization that you don't buy Toyota's for engine power. Or fuel efficiency. Compared to the competition, they will fall behind. Although they've done a good job, in my opinion, on the 2GR. Nice bump in fuel efficiency and I think it has plenty of power for what it is. It does not compare to a 2.7 ecoboost. But it has plenty of get up and go for me. Hauls up to the payload just fine.

Longevity wise, I don't know. There are a few that are well over 100k. But time will tell. Remember 2TR/3RZ (2.7L) are/were also "high-revving" but no issues with reliability.

I agree with the part in bold.

My dislike for the 3.5l v6 stems from my perception of the engine's characteristics (or lack thereof) that are relevant to 4x4 usage.
The 4.0l v6 in the old Tacoma's, FJ's and current 4runners is a truck engine: it has good low-end torque (relatively speaking).
Same thing can be said for the 5.7l v8 in the LC 200 and Tundra and the 4.7l v8 which preceded it.
Those engines were designed primarily for 4x4 applications. The 3.5l was designed for sedan and CUV applications, and Toyota tried to adapt it to a truck after the fact. I just don't think that engine is well-paired with the Tacoma: it rev's higher than the 4.0l v6 it replaced and it relies heavily on shifting strategies to try and achieve decent fuel economy and produce usable power.

I'm not making any prediction whatsoever on the engine's longevity. I just don't like how it drives.

 

[Clutch]

@phsycle and @Dalko43

As much as I like the specs on the F150. Don’t think I could do it. Toyota has treated me too well. The 3.5 in the 3rd Gen Tacoma isn’t my favorite engine, in all reality wouldn’t even come close to using its’ full capabilities. Be fine for 99% of the things I do. Heck my underpowered 3.4 is more than enough.


Off topic, but that is kinda the point of this thread. ?

Not that I could ever afford one.

See the FJ Co. is putting a super charged 4.0, 5 speed manny, and a coil sprung front end. Kinda cool they are keeping it all Toyota and not dropping in a LS.

https://www.fj.co/detail/1984-Land-Cruiser-G43-S_397

 

[phsycle]

I agree with the part in bold.

My dislike for the 3.5l v6 stems from my perception of the engine's characteristics (or lack thereof) that are relevant to 4x4 usage.
The 4.0l v6 in the old Tacoma's, FJ's and current 4runners is a truck engine: it has good low-end torque (relatively speaking).
Same thing can be said for the 5.7l v8 in the LC 200 and Tundra and the 4.7l v8 which preceded it.
Those engines were designed primarily for 4x4 applications. The 3.5l was designed for sedan and CUV applications, and Toyota tried to adapt it to a truck after the fact. I just don't think that engine is well-paired with the Tacoma: it rev's higher than the 4.0l v6 it replaced and it relies heavily on shifting strategies to try and achieve decent fuel economy and produce usable power.

I'm not making any prediction whatsoever on the engine's longevity. I just don't like how it drives.

Yeah, I give you that. If they offered the 1GR, I may have gone that route at the cost of 10% or so MPG. But like you said, it's all relative. Drive a diesel or any other V8, the low-end torque argument goes out the window. All of these Tacoma's are pretty gutless, relatively speaking.

But as long as the truck gets me over mountains and hauls my family safely, I don't care much about 0-60 times or tow capacity. If I were more concerned about grunt power and hauling capacity, I wouldn't have bought a midsize to begin with.

 

[phsycle]

@phsycle and @Dalko43

As much as I like the specs on the F150. Don’t think I could do it. Toyota has treated me too well. The 3.5 in the 3rd Gen Tacoma isn’t my favorite engine, in all reality wouldn’t even come close to using its’ full capabilities. Be fine for 99% of the things I do. Heck my underpowered 3.4 is more than enough.

Yeah, I think you've even contemplated the 2TR version. Driving around, I hardly ever get into 3k+ rpm. And this is with the torqueless minivan engine

Putting along to work, noise of clutch mech clunking underside, listening to AM radio--life is good!

 

[Dalko43]

Yeah, I give you that. If they offered the 1GR, I may have gone that route at the cost of 10% or so MPG. But like you said, it's all relative. Drive a diesel or any other V8, the low-end torque argument goes out the window. All of these Tacoma's are pretty gutless, relatively speaking.

Yep, that's what I said "relatively speaking." The 1gr-fe v6 is nothing special in regards to its low-end torque, especially when pitted against a modern gasoline v8 or turbodiesel, but I do prefer its driving characteristics over those of the 3.5l v6. Had the new Tacoma come with an updated version of that 4.0l v6, I probably would have gotten it instead of the 4runner.

 

[phsycle]

Yep, that's what I said "relatively speaking." The 1gr-fe v6 is nothing special in regards to its low-end torque, especially when pitted against a modern gasoline v8 or turbodiesel, but I do prefer its driving characteristics over those of the 3.5l v6. Had the new Tacoma come with an updated version of that 4.0l v6, I probably would have gotten it instead of the 4runner.

Mating the 6MT to the 3.5, does make a meaningful difference, though. Better than the auto. Although, if they go 8-speed, I think that would be MUCH better combo.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Toyota engines will never top a HP per cubic inch chart and some have had serious issues (3VZ head gaskets, various sludge issues, they ain't perfect), but the lore of long life is mostly legitimate. The power has always been adequate to me, I dunno. HP and torque are just numbers and I don't care if they aren't the best as long as it works for me. I put them in the same category as computer CPU speed and RAM. I'm not a gamer, I don't render videos, so my 6 year old 2.6 GHz i7-3720 and 16GB of RAM laptop trundles along just fine for what I use it for.

 

[Clutch]

Yeah, I think you've even contemplated the 2TR version. Driving around, I hardly ever get into 3k+ rpm. And this is with the torqueless minivan engine

Putting along to work, noise of clutch mech clunking underside, listening to AM radio--life is good!

I have, more than enough for majority of the things I do. The concern would be loaded down with camping gear and pulling my moto trailer. Pretty sure a regear would cure that...since I am fine with plunking along in no hurry. But by the time you do that...might as well buy the V6.

n0rth's 2.7 Build on TW is pretty ************** though.


https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/n0rths-tacoma-build.114291/





So...have some miles on the new springs. Front end settled a bit. Snow tires are on...which the 265/75's do look better than the 265/70's street treads that were on there. Not sure if I am liking the 5 Spokes...kinda kicking myself not grabbing those 16" steelies when I had the chance.

and @bkg has me looking at the once black now chrome window trim...think I need to pull it paint it. Even if the rest of the paint is shot.

Truck is feeling very tight and running great...just turned 385'000 miles, speaking of Toyotas refusing to die. Was under there fixing one of the rear shock boots, that some how came off, while under there was inspecting the frame for rust, hardly any. So other than it getting wrecked or rusting out...don't see a new truck any time real soon. (as usual... )

Have been looking for some new to me seats, but nothing out there on CL...ordered some ballistic seat covers until I do. There is a pair of 1st Gen Limited seats on TW right now, only $150 too...but shipping would kill that sweet deal.

 

[GB_Willys_2014]

@phsycle and @Dalko43

As much as I like the specs on the F150. Don’t think I could do it. Toyota has treated me too well. The 3.5 in the 3rd Gen Tacoma isn’t my favorite engine, in all reality wouldn’t even come close to using its’ full capabilities. Be fine for 99% of the things I do. Heck my underpowered 3.4 is more than enough.


Off topic, but that is kinda the point of this thread. ?

Not that I could ever afford one.

See the FJ Co. is putting a super charged 4.0, 5 speed manny, and a coil sprung front end. Kinda cool they are keeping it all Toyota and not dropping in a LS.

https://www.fj.co/detail/1984-Land-Cruiser-G43-S_397

View attachment 486131

Bordello red aside, that is a thing of beauty.

 

[Clutch]

Bordello red aside, that is a thing of beauty.

Yeah, not crazy about the interior color. Though always thought one done up in dark oxblood would be cool.

c'mon lotto! I see they have a FJ45 Crew Cab waiting to be restored...

https://www.fj.co/detail/2001-Land-Cruiser-FJ45-Crew-cab_304Kinda


Kinda partial to the Cadet Blue, and Rustic Green.

 

[DaveInDenver]

n0rth's 2.7 Build on TW is pretty ************** though.

Keep in mind his 4 cylinder is supercharged and not stock. The reason I bumped to a V6 was because without any massaging or customization it works for me.

On the 22R-E in the old truck I had an Engnbldr ported head built with a 261 crawler cam and oversized valves. With an oversized throttle body and LC Engineering header, along with a mandrel bent intake, 2.25" free flow exhaust. It was ************ looking. It was still slow. The header was really hot, the whole thing was noisy. So I eventually went back to a stock exhaust and intake to make it more enjoyable on the trail.

So one of the primary requirements for the truck that replaced it was that the engine was staying stock. I couldn't be happier with this 1GR, pulls great on the trail and freeway, other than MPG.

 

[phsycle]

I have, more than enough for majority of the things I do. The concern would be loaded down with camping gear and pulling my moto trailer. Pretty sure a regear would cure that...since I am fine with plunking along in no hurry. But by the time you do that...might as well buy the V6.

It wasn't even an option for me, since I needed a DC. But yup, V6 isn't much more and gets you to your end goal leaving it all stock.

...So...have some miles on the new springs. Front end settled a bit. Snow tires are on...which the 265/75's do look better than the 265/70's street treads that were on there. Not sure if I am liking the 5 Spokes...kinda kicking myself not grabbing those 16" steelies when I had the chance.

I TOLD you! Those belong on 4Runners and pretty SUV's.

What you need are those steel rims, scuff them up with a wire wheel and pour some salt water on them to rust them up good. Truck wheels.

 

[Clutch]

Keep in mind his 4 cylinder is supercharged and not stock. The reason I bumped to a V6 was because without any massaging or customization it works for me.

On the 22R-E in the old truck I had an Engnbldr ported head built with a 261 crawler cam and oversized valves. With an oversized throttle body and LC Engineering header, along with a mandrel bent intake, 2.25" free flow exhaust. It was ************ looking. It was still slow. The header was really hot, the whole thing was noisy. So I eventually went back to a stock exhaust and intake to make it more enjoyable on the trail.

So one of the primary requirements for the truck that replaced it was that the engine was staying stock. I couldn't be happier with this 1GR, pulls great on the trail and freeway, other than MPG.

Oh yeah, think they ended blowing up the engine...or his nephew did. Cool truck none-the-less!

No way I would wheel my truck like that either. Years ago yes...now, trailhead and Forest Service road runner. Stockish if fine... a little suspension and a 32" tire and I am good.

 

[bkg]

and @bkg has me looking at the once black now chrome window trim...think I need to pull it paint it. Even if the rest of the paint is shot.

I'm here to help!

I think it's like $22 from Toyota of Dallas... takes 5 minutes to replace.