Convince me

[CrispyCracker]

So i've been looking on this forum on and off for quite some time given that I'd like to start building an expedition vehicle of my own. My goal is not a fire-breathing off-road monster but rather a capable overland vehicle set up for camping (mainly with wife but sometimes with small daughter) and say, 70% highway travel and 30% semi-challenging trails.

I have an admittedly modest $4K budget for the vehicle purchase and I have a couple grand handy for after-purchase maintenance and fixes. I will add mods over time as budget allows, but I am of course looking for the most capable stock platform. I'm fairly handy (emphasis on a humble "fairly" given the resident wrenching talent) so I can handle maintenance and many mods but I won't be tearing apart an engine anytime soon.

I had settled on a first gen Xterra after extensive research. In fact, I aim to purchase one I found in Carolina next week after Hurricane Irma decides what she's going to do. However, positive comments related to Montero's that I have seen peppered throughout these forums are giving me pause. I did a quick search nearby and found a Sport XLS model with acceptable mileage and some nice modifications already made. And it got me to thinking.

So...setting aside any bias as best you can, please tell me which of the two vehicles you would purchase if you were in my shoes and why. I will assign most value to insight from folks who have experienced both platforms. Know that I appreciate the pending input.

 

[MTGunner]

Good post. I currently own a 2000 Xterra 4x4 first generation. It has been fun setting this Xterra up for what you is mostly daily driver and some off road here in NW Montana. Now having said this I have been looking at Monteros for another rig for expeditions and other. My Xterra is a good rig and will keep it as I have done extensive work to mprove suspension, did the timing belt and have kept up the maintenance. I will say that the mileage is just OK if I drive judiciously. I am impressed with the Montero given what I Have read on this website. Is it better than the Xterra. I cannot say as yet. But, I am looking for a good Montero to supplement my expedition rigs. There is a plethora of good info on this site. Good luck!

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

It depends on where you live. I'm sure overseas the Montero/Pajero can hold their own and where the market is strong, they can be well modified, but what about support and parts in North America? At least with the gen1 Xterra, it's the same as a 2000-2004 Frontier, based off the W/D21 trucks that go back into the 80's. Parts are plentiful. I couldn't tell you if I've ever seen a Montero in Canada.

 

[Martinjmpr]

For your budget I would hold out for a 2nd gen Xterra. The older 2nd gens are getting closer to that price point and if you shop around you can probably find one.
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If you can shift your own gears you can avoid the transmission issues. From what I see the 4.0 V6 is a pretty robust engine and way more powerful than the anemic 3.3 in the 1st gen (which I've heard described as an engine that "combines the power of a 4 cylinder with the fuel economy of a V8." )
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I currently drive an R50 Pathfinder which I like a lot, but if it were to get T-boned tomorrow I would replace it with a 2nd gen manual transmission Xterra in a heartbeat.

 

[bushnut]

As a new 1st Gen X owner I highly recommend it. I previously had a 2nd Gen Pathfinder which I also loved. I've done extensive long distance (8000+km) highway trips in both as well as back road gravel touring and light to moderate off road adventures. Xterra Pros: easy to drive, mechanically simple to work on, parts are available everywhere, decent aftermarket support, reliable engine and powertrain. Xterra Cons: limited weight carrying capacity (though that is easily remedied) rougher ride, steering system is mediocre at best lots of bump steer on rough terrain. (looking in to a steering damper to fix that). Pathfinder Pros: lots of room, smooth ride excellent rear suspension system. build quality is better. Pathfinder Cons: almost no aftermarket support. Prone to rust issues (thats what killed mine). as the model year gets newer the off road worthiness gets less. As far as 1st gen X and R50 pathfinder go they both suffer the VG33 engine. It is adequate, nothing more. however if maintained it is reliable and easy to work on. the super charged version(available for the X) would be more fun i think but will be much harder on fuel consumption.
If I were looking for a new rig I would not hesitate to buy either one again if it were in good working order and no rust.
though more likely it would end up being a 2nd Gen due to time and mileage.

 

[SRStaff]

First gen Xterra will get 20mpg with 33's if you take care of it. First gen suspension is way better than second gen. You need to do a TS just to get the front end travel of a first gen. The only weak issue of the first gen is the steering. Beef that up and you are fine. First gen will fit 33's without a BL. Power is fine on it. It is not a BMW so do not think to drive it like that.

 

[CrispyCracker]

Thanks, all. Sorry to disappear -- preparing our home for the pending hurricane in FL.

I find the differing opinions on the first gen X very interesting.

Nd4SpdSe, your argument for available parts (which others have made, also) is very compelling in an distance vehicle where I might find myself stranded in a faraway offload location with something broken.

The folks in the Mistu sub-forum make a pretty damn good argument for the Gen3 Montero, btw. It's a much larger and more plush vehicle so one poster pointed out that, to some degree, I'm comparing apples and oranges when pitting it against an X. I'm sure that's correct. But I'm drawn to these two models and I can make either work for my purposes with some time and tweaking, I'm sure. Thanks again.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

For your budget I would hold out for a 2nd gen Xterra. The older 2nd gens are getting closer to that price point and if you shop around you can probably find one.
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If you can shift your own gears you can avoid the transmission issues. From what I see the 4.0 V6 is a pretty robust engine and way more powerful than the anemic 3.3 in the 1st gen (which I've heard described as an engine that "combines the power of a 4 cylinder with the fuel economy of a V8." )

The gen2 is an issue with the radiator and not the transmission. It's a defect that mixes coolant in with the auto trans fluild and toats the trans. 2010+ have been fixed, but can be corrected with a new rad, or a manual transmission.

Xterra Cons: limited weight carrying capacity (though that is easily remedied)
[...]
As far as 1st gen X and R50 pathfinder go they both suffer the VG33 engine. It is adequate, nothing more. however if maintained it is reliable and easy to work on. the super charged version(available for the X) would be more fun i think but will be much harder on fuel consumption.

2000lb of cement in my already borderline overweight truck, handled it like a champ! But fairly modified as well

You can also get the R50 with the VQ35. Much more power @ 240hp if I remember right

Nd4SpdSe, your argument for available parts (which others have made, also) is very compelling in an distance vehicle where I might find myself stranded in a faraway offload location with something broken.

I just find going and reasonable distance, it's good to have a way to get parts. A breakdown and having to wait a day or two isn't fun or more pending weekend, long weekend, or otherwise. I don't have any Mitsu experience, but typically there's much less in terms of dealers, and less vehicles in crap yards to get parts from. I'd do some research and call around. Find out what parts break more often on the Mitsu, especially when modified, and call around to see how long it takes to get those parts in. See if wer're talking in stock, 1-2 days, 1-2 weeks or 1-2 months...

 

[CrispyCracker]

Thank you, Nd4SpdSe. Beautiful, capable rig you have there. Love the yellow and black combo.

Related question: is your X fairly comfortable on long drives? I realize that you've set yours up with more of an offroad focus so my question may be a bit misplaced. My family and I plan to use the vehicle I purchase on some longer trips that will require extensive road time. The Mitsu camp admits that the Montero is underpowered but rave about the its comfortable seats and road manners. Just wondering how you (and other first gen owners) find your trucks perform in that regard. You (and others) have convinced me about the importance of the availability of parts -- though the Mitsu guys have made a pretty good case for a couple of dependable sources.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

Thanks! Funny, I wanted any color but yellow, but I have embraced it. I did always like it, but was afraid to be off-roading in a place I shouldn't be, and stand out, just a bit. However, I'm known for having the yellow Xterra, and would of had a different reputation if I had any other color. There's only a few around Quebec city, so people tend to see me where I am.
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For comfort, I find it quite. Actually with the off-road soft suspension, my girlfriend finds it so comfortable she falls asleep; she's also got a pair of herniated discs. My family lives 1000kms away, and I have done that many times in the truck. I'll still do this a few times a year, but will sometimes take the girlfriends car for the fuel savings, despite I find the Avenger much less comfortable. I've also got the Rx-8, and for long drives, I find the Xterra the most comfortable of all 3. At first when i got my truck, I used it to work on the road between locations. I've had the X for 9+ years and I can't and have never complained about comfort. Mind you, age is there, so you never know how it's been treated. At 13+ years old, if you need better comfort, you may need new cushings? Also people like to swap to Sentre SE-R seats for something more sporty.
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The Xterra is apparently underpowered, but I'm supercharged and manual, and find the power quite adequate and can't complain.

 

[CrispyCracker]

Good stuff. As for yellow, I wouldn't be debating a vehicle purchase if I'd pulled the trigger on a sweet 2004 I found recently. I hesitated due to the color and it sold the next morning. I've since seen yellow versions decked out with black trim, lifts, tint, etc. and I kick myself. There's something wonderfully brazen about the color. So, well, color me stupid.

Good to hear that they're pretty comfortable. I'm no longer a young buck (52 years old to be precise, and still trying to figure out how that happened) but I don't require a plush cabin. My wife, however, likes to sleep on the road sometimes like your girlfriend does and we plan to use the vehicle to really cover some ground between state parks (and the odd craft brewery). Good to hear your positive testimonial. FWIW, my wife's a Canuck also (from Sault Set Marie, to be precise). Something about those Canadian girls.

Oh, an Xterra AND an Rx8? Dude, way to rub it in.

 

[Bigfnhammer]

Thanks! Funny, I wanted any color but yellow, but I have embraced it. I did always like it, but was afraid to be off-roading in a place I shouldn't be, and stand out, just a bit. However, I'm known for having the yellow Xterra, and would of had a different reputation if I had any other color. There's only a few around Quebec city, so people tend to see me where I am.
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For comfort, I find it quite. Actually with the off-road soft suspension, my girlfriend finds it so comfortable she falls asleep; she's also got a pair of herniated discs. My family lives 1000kms away, and I have done that many times in the truck. I'll still do this a few times a year, but will sometimes take the girlfriends car for the fuel savings, despite I find the Avenger much less comfortable. I've also got the Rx-8, and for long drives, I find the Xterra the most comfortable of all 3. At first when i got my truck, I used it to work on the road between locations. I've had the X for 9+ years and I can't and have never complained about comfort. Mind you, age is there, so you never know how it's been treated. At 13+ years old, if you need better comfort, you may need new cushings? Also people like to swap to Sentre SE-R seats for something more sporty.
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The Xterra is apparently underpowered, but I'm supercharged and manual, and find the power quite adequate and can't complain.

what rear leafs are you running?

 

[Martinjmpr]

The gen2 is an issue with the radiator and not the transmission. It's a defect that mixes coolant in with the auto trans fluild and toats the trans. 2010+ have been fixed, but can be corrected with a new rad, or a manual transmission.

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This is a well known defect in the Toyota world as well. The dreaded "pink milkshake." On both of my 4runners (1999 and 2007) I eliminated the possibility of such an occurence by having an external transmission cooler installed and having it plumbed to completely bypass the factory cooler. I'm assuming you could do the same on an Xterra.
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2000lb of cement in my already borderline overweight truck, handled it like a champ! But fairly modified as well

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OUCH! I can hear your springs groaning from here! :sombrero:
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You can also get the R50 with the VQ35. Much more power @ 240hp if I remember right

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Yes, and the combo of the VQ35 + 5 speed manual transmission is a peppy one! My DD is an 02 Pathy with that combo and I love it.
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I just find going and reasonable distance, it's good to have a way to get parts. A breakdown and having to wait a day or two isn't fun or more pending weekend, long weekend, or otherwise. I don't have any Mitsu experience, but typically there's much less in terms of dealers, and less vehicles in crap yards to get parts from. I'd do some research and call around. Find out what parts break more often on the Mitsu, especially when modified, and call around to see how long it takes to get those parts in. See if wer're talking in stock, 1-2 days, 1-2 weeks or 1-2 months...

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I'm a former Mitsubishi owner (owned a 1st gen Montero 4 door, 1990, from 1992 - 1999.) Much as I liked my Monty I would not buy another one. For one thing, I think they stopped selling them in the US around 2004 or so, which means you're looking at a minimum of a 13 year old vehicle. Also they are "orphans" in the market since Mitsubishi's footprint has been getting smaller and smaller over the years. They're also pretty old tech, which is why they have low HP and MPG numbers. Not saying the Monty isn't a good vehicle, but for what the OP wants, an Xterra is going to be easier to find and easier to modify.
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Although, again, if he has the $$ to do so, I'd hold out for the 2nd gen which I think was improved in every respect over the 1st gen. If/when my Pathy gets too old I plan on replacing it with a manual transmission Xterra.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

Good to hear that they're pretty comfortable. I'm no longer a young buck (52 years old to be precise, and still trying to figure out how that happened) but I don't require a plush cabin.

It probably all depends. After almost 10 years and over 170k kms on her in my possession, I'm sure my butt is well molded into the seat.

Something about those Canadian girls..

It all depends. I've known some good US girls when I used to work in the states. This one girl I met in Virginia when I lived there who was from Vermont going to VT, so hot.
My girlfriend is from Quebec, but they're a bit stuck up here I will admit. But mine is a country girl, a Quebec City girl would want nothing to do with me.

Oh, an Xterra AND an Rx8? Dude, way to rub it in.

Lol. Sorry, but ******* fuel economy I get what I like and just keep it "forever", none of this always changing cars BS. If fuel economy is the price to pay to get what I like, but I keep it for a LONG time, so be it, no regrets.

what rear leafs are you running?

Stock-style pack with an extra secondary leaf added, but the overload leaf removed. I'm also running a military wrap leaf with the main leaf.

This is a well known defect in the Toyota world as well. The dreaded "pink milkshake." On both of my 4runners (1999 and 2007) I eliminated the possibility of such an occurence by having an external transmission cooler installed and having it plumbed to completely bypass the factory cooler. I'm assuming you could do the same on an Xterra.

Ya, I've heard that Toyotas have had that problem too. There is a Nissan fixed radiator, but bypassing with an external cooler is also a popular option.

OUCH! I can hear your springs groaning from here! :sombrero:

I'm not shy, I make my Xterra work. Even if there are times like this year where I haven't off-roaded, and very little camping, the X is still being used as she should.

They're also pretty old tech, which is why they have low HP and MPG numbers.

A gen1 X isn't much different. It falls into that same category, but I do like the power of the Supercharger, it gives it just enough.

Although, again, if he has the $$ to do so, I'd hold out for the 2nd gen which I think was improved in every respect over the 1st gen. If/when my Pathy gets too old I plan on replacing it with a manual transmission Xterra.

Hard to say what I'd do. I'd stick with my gen1 for a long time, even try to find a non-rusted one and move everything over. I'd really like a VK56 swapped gen2 with a 6-speed, and maybe it's something I'd do in the future, but my gen1 does everything I ask her to do just fine, and I work her hard. I'd go the gen2 route when I start to see parts being too hard to find on the gen1.