Cooper Discoverer S/T Maxx

[kb7our]

adustable front control arms will fix this on a jeep would'nt it?

Very good reading and info here guys - much appreciated.

Contemplating the shim solution, depending on whether or not I get a free offset ball joint to correct the minor camber issue on the LF which I understand was created (or aggravated from factory setting likely barely within spec) by the lift?? Currently negotiating that possibility under warranty and it may fly. Adjustable CAs aren't out of the question as I could do that myself - I would guess that to go this route instead of the AEV drop brackets, I would want both uppers and lowers rather than just going with one set (either uppers or lowers) to dial in both arms on one side to offset the pull? Oh, and although I have not timed the pull I would say it is a pull vs. a drift. Have to hold some left pressure on the wheel on nearly any straight road and especially freeway driving to keep Jeep in the lane - not severe, but it definitely will move to the right lane if I let go. Now DT just left me a message that they brought in 2 new replacement Coopers to see if that helps on the front. As I have already done left to right and rear to front without any difference, should I give the 2 new tires a try? Might it possibly be a design issue with these tires and the way they track like some of the Toyos??

 

[kojackJKU]

The AEV brakets won't correct this, and yes I would think we would need all 4 front arms. You mention this, and I thought it was just my jeep and air pressures. hmmm. I am thinking about swapping out my control arms now so I can dial in more cross caster.

 

[kojackJKU]

After looking some more, I may go with a full teraflex 2.5" with control arm lift and use my Monroe shocks. that way I can dial everything in and get a bit of extra flex too.

 

[kojackJKU]

Just talked to teraflex, they said with my lift (leveling kit), only lowers are needed to do this. perfect....ordering front and rear lowers, might as well get the rear lowers too to add some strength, and 2 track bars.

 

[Jeremy P.]

I recently, temporality removed a set of ******** Cepek Mud Country 285s (love the tire) which only needed about 0.5 degrees of cross caster, and installed 255/80R17 S/T MAXX on my 'built' 4Runner. The new tires pulled right until I had a custom alignment performed on this full-time 4WD car (which is factor), to a full 2 degrees of cross caster. Perfect now, untill I go back to the DC MC treads and need to return the caster settings. I knew this was likely going to be a required adjustment because of prior S/T MAXX testing.

So what are your thoughts on the 255 ST MAXX's? I've enjoyed reading your analysis on other tires. I am seriously looking at the 255/85 size for my 4runner, even though my current tires still have >50% left. Also the alignment info for the 4runner is really helpful if I ever run into this pull situation. I have the light racing UCA's and they allow plenty of alignment flexibility.

 

[1stDeuce]

adustable front control arms will fix this on a jeep would'nt it?

No. Adjustable arms can be used to change overall caster on the front axle, but not to adjust left and right caster independently. That is to say that no matter how much you try, you're not going to be able to twist the axle housing. Think about it for a second and you'll see what I mean. Left to right caster is fixed by the fact that the axle tube connects both knuckles together, and they therefore cannot be rotated relative to each other. The AEV brackets do two things, first, they put the caster back to the factory spec after the lift, and second, they change the instant center of rotation of the housing for improved anti-dive during braking. You want the brackets on there, trust me!! Your jeep had .2 degrees of cross caster before the lift, and it still does after, and it always will if you don't do an offset balljoint to change it. That is the ONLY way to affect cross caster on a solid axle Jeep.

As for camber, on a solid axle vehicle, no lift out there will have any effect on camber. Camber is built into your axle, and the axle is unchanged. You can occasionally see some additional negative camber from running spacers, or wheels with less backspacing, just from a little more flex due to the leverage. (Or from jumping your Jeep at the dunes!)

If the jeep is still under warranty, and out of spec, then you may indeed qualify to have the dealership put in an offset balljoint to correct camber/caster. If they put in a .5 degree balljoint and clock it at 45 degrees, you should be able to get .2 degrees of caster change to even up cross caster, and .2 degrees of camber change to get that evened up as well! That is probably the best solution if it's free.
We've really hijacked this STMaxx thread... Shame on us.
Chris

 

[kb7our]

No. Adjustable arms can be used to change overall caster on the front axle, but not to adjust left and right caster independently. That is to say that no matter how much you try, you're not going to be able to twist the axle housing. Think about it for a second and you'll see what I mean. Left to right caster is fixed by the fact that the axle tube connects both knuckles together, and they therefore cannot be rotated relative to each other. The AEV brackets do two things, first, they put the caster back to the factory spec after the lift, and second, they change the instant center of rotation of the housing for improved anti-dive during braking. You want the brackets on there, trust me!! Your jeep had .2 degrees of cross caster before the lift, and it still does after, and it always will if you don't do an offset balljoint to change it. That is the ONLY way to affect cross caster on a solid axle Jeep.

As for camber, on a solid axle vehicle, no lift out there will have any effect on camber. Camber is built into your axle, and the axle is unchanged. You can occasionally see some additional negative camber from running spacers, or wheels with less backspacing, just from a little more flex due to the leverage. (Or from jumping your Jeep at the dunes!)

If the jeep is still under warranty, and out of spec, then you may indeed qualify to have the dealership put in an offset balljoint to correct camber/caster. If they put in a .5 degree balljoint and clock it at 45 degrees, you should be able to get .2 degrees of caster change to even up cross caster, and .2 degrees of camber change to get that evened up as well! That is probably the best solution if it's free.
We've really hijacked this STMaxx thread... Shame on us.
Chris

Are you saying I have a case with the dealer if they say the lift is causing my LF "camber" issue which shows out of spec (in the red) on their alignment machine? I'd like to be able to prove that the lift does not cause a camber issue and therefore the dealer should absolutely install an offset ball joint under warranty.

 

[1stDeuce]

Unless they can come up with some way that the lift has bent your axle, it can't otherwise be causing ANY Change in camber. It's called a "solid axle" for a reason... it's solid. The only way to change camber is to bend the axle. If you rotate the axle about it's tube, that will change caster, but the left and right caster will both change by the same amount, as they're fixed to the same tube.
That said, good luck explaining spacial realities to a dealer's service writer...
If they stand you up, I have a .5 degree shim with your name on it...

 

[kojackJKU]

ok, back to running the way i am. my jeep rides and drives great besides the pull.

 

[kb7our]

ok, back to running the way i am. my jeep rides and drives great besides the pull.

Mine too!!! On road is smooth as silk plus so quiet and some off road play in the AZ desert has been impressive compared to the KM2s on my 07. But that darn pull!!!!! ARGH!!!!!

 

[kb7our]

Unless they can come up with some way that the lift has bent your axle, it can't otherwise be causing ANY Change in camber. It's called a "solid axle" for a reason... it's solid. The only way to change camber is to bend the axle. If you rotate the axle about it's tube, that will change caster, but the left and right caster will both change by the same amount, as they're fixed to the same tube.
That said, good luck explaining spacial realities to a dealer's service writer...
If they stand you up, I have a .5 degree shim with your name on it...

Very much appreciated!!! I will let you know.

 

[1stDeuce]

BTW, short term solution for a pull is tire pressure... If you're tired of fighting it, raise the pressure on the pull side by 2psi and drop it by 2 on the other side. Play with the amount until the pull is gone. I ran a set of AT/S's on my jeep for a while where I always had to run the left front just a little lower than the right to get it not to pull.

I wish your 255's were 16's or I'd be making a call to your discount tire to scoop them up!!
Chris

 

[kojackJKU]

Did you get adverse wear by doing this? Im down for trying that for sure. My new rollers should be in next week. Need to get my studded tires off.

 

[98GP]

Are these tires pulling due to the tread blocks in the center being mainly designed on an angle? It seems to me that the General Grabber tires might have the same pulling issue because of the center tread design on an angle too.

Could the tires be over inflated so you are driving only on the center of the tires?

 

[kb7our]

Are these tires pulling due to the tread blocks in the center being mainly designed on an angle? It seems to me that the General Grabber tires might have the same pulling issue because of the center tread design on an angle too.

Could the tires be over inflated so you are driving only on the center of the tires?

On my particular tires I have them at 28 psi for a nice contact patch. Interesting theory on the tread pattern.