Design/Layout Feedback for a First-time Camper build

[wtwnnil]

I'm beginning to design an interior layout for my camper build (for myself and my partner). It'll be my first build, so I'm trying to keep it moderately simple (although I've built an electrical system before, and I'm relatively capable with tools). I've searched through many build journals, considered my intended usage, and tried to design something accordingly!

It's going to be built in a 2020 Transit Cargo, 148"WB Medium roof. I'd really appreciate feedback on the big-picture design details, as well as anything nitty-gritty and specific.

Here's a link to the 3D model on Sketchup

The build details:
Bed: Pull-out slat-style bed = 4'6" across, and 6' long when extended. Bed is 2' off the ground, leaving about 3' of clearance between the bed and the ceiling (adjusting for a 6" mattress).
Bench seats: Two bench seats facing each other. 1'5" high, 3' wide. I'll put a lagun-style table somewhere in there.
Water: 32 gallon wheel-well fresh water tank under the bench on Passenger side. 4 gallon grey tank (with the option to directly purge), 4 gallon mini-tank electric water heater, underneath the sink (with cutting board inlay).
Shower pan built on 500lb drawer slides for under the sink, drain to connect to the bottom of the step in the sliding door. Shower head to hook up to the sink faucet.
Kitchen: Slide out induction cooktop next to a mini fridge (planning on 120V for $$$ savings sake). We're planning on a basic RV toilet, to be stored in the bottom of that cupboard. Storage space otherwise.
Space: Width of the sliding door opening = 24". Width of the aisleways = 24"
Electrical: Electrical components in the garage, on the Driver side. Planning on 400Ah LiFePO4, with a 3000W inverter, etc... Electrical conduit running up to the ceiling for solar, etc.
Storage: Along the driver side by the bed (I'm thinking open 'storage cubes'), and upper cabinets. (*Is this going to be too much weight up top, and all only on one side?)
Build Material: I'm currently thinking of using 8020, but for the sake of weight, I might lean on 2x2's for most of the framing (still deciding if the strength is worth it...)

If anyone's got thoughts, I'm all ears! Thanks for your help, prior, and currently if so! 😅

 

[Bikersmurf]

Does your shower pan fold/slide out of the way?

My first thought is that you should have more open space in the middle. It feels cramped to me.

 

[wtwnnil]

Thanks, @Bikersmurf. The shower pan slides underneath the counter with the sink. I'm planning on incorporating some 500lb drawer slides for it.

And good advice. I'd designed it around keeping a 2' wide aisle, thinking this would be sufficient. Is there a place you think could change to make it feel less cramped?

 

[jhl99]

What is your use case? How long are your trips going to be? What will the weather be like? How many occupants?

Does the shower drain connect to a fitting that penetrates through the step? Or do you attach a drain hose and leave the sliding door open a bit and route the drain hose out onto the ground?

Seems like a lot of gimmicks for a shower... you don't mention having an auxiliary heater, are intending cold weather use? if not, why just not have an outdoor shower setup? No moisture build up in van, less opportunity for leaks, etc.

Which way are you sleeping? Front to back of vehicle (North-South) or side to side (East-West)? I'm assuming you plan to sleep North-South... if that is true, your body is aligned with 'long slots' created by expanding the bed.... seems like most of the slat designs I've seen your body is perpendicular to the slats.

I went from a Honda Element to Ram Promaster. The two things I made sure I had in the Promaster where 1) A bed that was always available for use and 2) a place to sit at a table surface that was always available. (I go solo, so these items where not difficult to achieve. Also, I have no plumbing (no shower, no porta potty, no sink) .... I just carry 1 gallon jugs of water and a small garden madock and a roll of T.P. I uses a super insulated ice chest and a single burner backpacking stove (outside). My use case is weekend trips ( 4 season) and longer trips up to 2 weeks in length.

Take my input with a grain of salt.

 

[iggi]

I've had a couple different layouts in my current camper.
Version 1 was a fold out bed/bench.
Version 2 is a full time, double sized bed mounted East/West across the back.
V2 has been my favourite layout of all my campers. The full time bed makes life a lot easier for couples. Either of us can lounge in bed while the other cooks, does yoga, etc.
I assume you're taller than 5'8" which is why you've gone with the North/South layout. I know they are a bit pricey but if I had your van I would absolutely get the side flares so that the bed can go East/West.

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Our Ford Transit flares extend the width of your Ford Transit 148 so that you can #sleepsideways. Shop Flarespace flares.

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[wtwnnil]

Thanks, everyone! Great questions.

Use case: Weekend trips (4 seasons), and extended road trips. We're planning for some cross-country trips, upwards of a month at a time likely spring/summer. And this might also be a rig to use for fieldwork in remote locations for extended periods of time.
Occupants/Height: I'm 5'8 and my travel partner is 5'5. We travel with 1 dog that is about 45lbs, medium-sized (and they definitely sleep on the bed too!🐾)
Shower: We previously had a pop-top camper with a full wetbath, and the shower was used constantly. So we decided the shower is important. The idea is for the drain to connect to a permanent fitting in the step. (*Moisture buildup is an important point, thanks!)
Heater: I'm planning on an auxiliary heater of some sort. Haven't gotten to that stage of the design yet -- My current thought is an Espar/Wabasto *gasoline* heater, but I'm trying to figure out alternatives because of the pricetag of $1500+ (whereas there's no cheap Chinese knockoffs of the gasoline models that I know of / or trust...). I hope to make this build all-electric, and avoid any gas other than gasoline from the van itself.
Bed: My plan was north-south with the bed. Hadn't thought about the direction of the slats, I'll look into this. The side flares would be great, but it's a lot considering our budget.
With everyone's thoughts, I'm realizing that my partner (and our dog) would probably be pretty content sleeping East-West, and it's just me who might get a little cramped 😬 --- Maybe East-West with me sleeping slightly diagonally could be a good solution!
As well, my intent with the bed is that it's always at least a 3' platform when it's slid in and the bench seats are available -- so I thought this would still provide access to at least some sort of a bed-platform all the time. I say this because I think that, yes, compared to only having a convertible bench seat, permanent access to the bed is important.

Any thoughts from you all are greatly appreciated! Thanks so such!

 

[simple]

If I were 5'8, Id definitely do the bed east west and you shouldn't need flare sides if you utilize the cabinet space at one end for your feet instead of housing for electronics. You could go with a smaller sink and use a collapsible dish pan if your really getting after some dishes. Showers are always tough in small spaces but if it's a priority, I'd build it into a closet.

RV manufacturers usually have pretty slick layouts since they put a lot of time and money into design. I'm surprised there isn't one that could borrow.

 

[WanderingBison]

You “likely” would be happy to sleep east-west for shorter trips, but I’d be more hesitant on longer trips or as a remote work “home”.

I have played with the idea of an expanding platform that is 3’ wide and east-west but expand to a north-south 6’ long bed, that expands over a dinette or kitchen. But I settled on sleeping North-south on a permanent bed.

Sleeping in the fetal position to fit and one partner climbing over the other to get out of bed were the compelling reasons for me.

For a shower in this limited space, consider the design friends have perfected and use -


Hope this helps!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[simple]

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[iggi]

Compared to running another fuel source, the $ for the gasoline version of the Webasto is likely worth it. You could go with one of the cheap diesel ones and simply run a small separate tank for it. Many people choose to do that even if their rig is diesel. My $200 (at the time) Chinese copy has run for 4 years in a similar use to what you're projecting.

 

[RVflyfish]

Here’s a great video on a higher quality Chinese diesel heater.

The reply to the first comment also mentions an HLN heater that is “equally good with quieter pump, brushless fan, and nicer air intake pipe filter combo.” Manufacturer info here.

Here’s a thread with a really clean integration of the Lavaner diesel heater in the above video into a gasoline van. Starts at post #65. (BTW I really like his “RB30” layout with a center aisle. Having to walk from the back of the van around the side to go inside, or vice-versa, gets old in a hurry.)

I also like diesel for a heater because it’s less volatile than gasoline in case of a leak.

 

[joeblack5]

We used two econolines for camping and slept north south but it does not use space in an efficient way. We now have a econoline srw with bus body and sleep east west.. big difference in usable space. Absolutely use swivel chairs, biggest difference in space.

Have fun designing and building.

Johan

 

[Farfrumwork]

Just a few notes. Not that I'm a professional up-fitter, but I did build out our van from an empty cargo (with help from my wife and oldest son) - besides the SMB top.

We build our van to carry 5 and sleep 4 (or more if that 5th was small and could sleep on the bench). We are a family of 4. I like the way low-tops look more than high-tops, and we like pop-tops (coming from the Westfalia world), so we went with a SMB penthouse. We don't 'live' in the van.

We use the van all winter as a ski-van, sans camping EQ. No need to carry water tanks, kitchens and showers all the time (for us anyway).

Using my experiences building production lines as a Manufacturing engineer, we prototyped our layout in cardboard prior to ordering materials or cutting anything (besides cardboard). I would recommend this no matter what your designs look like.

This gives you your full sized design in the van. It is amazing what something might look like on paper (or CAD) versus what it is actually like in real life (insert joke about R&D here). We made changes based on this and then set off to build.





Bed - two facts led us to a N/S configuration. 1) I'm 6'2" so even with flares, it would be a tight fit and 2) flares really only work with hightop vans - with a low top the bed would be to close to the ceiling as the bed needs to align with the flares.

I placed an OEM bench at the end of the bed to provide a nice sized galley, and lots of foot room for the kids (you can fully stretch out with room to spare on road trips)


Having a Syncro Vanagon for 12+yrs, I knew I wanted a permanent bed. Setting up and tearing down the bed everyday is a hassle. This also leaves a ton of storage space under the bed. After 5.5yrs in this configuration - still love it.

Shower - nope. We use our rig as a 'weekender' with limited winter camping. We setup an outdoor shower when needed in the summer (biking).

Kitchen - nope. We cook outside. I like to say that the van is an iron tent, and we're still camping. If you need one, I'd say make it small as Simple said above.

Water - we carry two 7ga containers.

I agree with deleted above - dogs get nasty dirty when outdoors all the time. Get them a bed (although my dog doesn't sleep in a human bed ever, your desires may vary)

And yeah, get a swivel for the passenger seat. Opens up a lot of utility.

Deleted makes a good point about economy related to welded tube frames, but I DID build our interior out of 80/20. A couple good reasons 1) I could do ALL of the work at home with a proper blade in my radial saw and some creative use of my drill press, 2) I can take anything apart with a few screws and change stuff if needed. It's all modular. The tambour roller doored cabinet that I built needed to come out and partially apart several times before it was done.

poor press...



mostly done pass side rear cabinet


done pass side rear cabinet (I did add some lights to the upper rail later to light the storage space)


bed frame with Ikea slats (Full sized, my feet can hang of the end a bit)

Tambour door 'closet' ready to install (it has lights inside as well)


The aluminum extrusion has not loosened, doesn't creak or rattle, and is pretty light. I can take ALL of the cabinets and the bed out with 9 screws (2 for each lower cab, 1 for the bed, and 4 for the upper cab). Back to a "cargo van" in <1hr if needed.

80/20 (or ITEM, or the like) is relatively pretty expensive, but I am familiar with it as we build all of our production EQ with extrusion frames at work. The trick is figuring what connectors to use where and designing around that. Connectors end up being > 1/2 the cost.

It's sweet in the end

And yes, we like color!

Good luck with your build!

 

[jhl99]

I would like to offer a counterpoint to using 80/20 or steel framing....

If you are going to enclose the space under the framing, why not just build with plywood?
>The plywood is both the structural and does the enclosing.
>Easy to work and join.
>Not really thermally conducting.
>Easy to paint.
>I used some metric plywood from shipping crates I got from work, it is maybe 5/16" think and maybe 5 plys. You don't need very thick plywood.

Here are some pics of North/South single bed. My van is also a daily driver, so the bed can hinge up to the side for increased payload area. The thought behind the split deck was to accommodate a porta potty in the forward section, never did that. The front section supports bolt to the floor via tee nuts installed in the floor. If did I it again, I would use the hinged legs in all positions. Since these pics have been taken, a Chinese diesel heater has been installed in the forward section the wheel well enclosure. I attach a diesel fuel tank to exterior of the driver's side read door in heating season and remove in warmer months.

Note that on the inboard edge of the deck I designed in a step. This is a future provision if I want to add a leaf and make the bed wider the leaf would rest on the step so that deck is totally flat.

By the way, this is a Promaster low roof, and there is 6' available for East/West bed, but I haul bikes and don't want to mess with removing wheels. In picture 2, the trough for the bike wheels and an adjustable bracket for holding the bike are visible.

 

[JaSAn]

Some random thoughts:

Being able to stand up is very important to me (74 y.o. male).

My first impression is that your design is very claustrophobic. Can you and your partner stay in this for 24 hours without trying to kill each other? I find that having no cabinets up high opens a small space up.

I'd try to make an outdoor shower work before committing to the space and complexity of an indoor one.

Annoying to have to make up the bed every time you want to use it. Nice to be able to access some things stored under the bed without going outside.

If you can swivel both front seats you will not need any more seating.

I spend a lot of time in bear country so I don't cook inside (only boil water) to minimize food smells inside. Inside stove is a Pocket Rocket, outside stove is a 2 burner Coleman. I have a folding 2.5 X 5 ft table for outside.

My sink is a bin that also holds my plates, cups, utensils, inside stove and fuel canister, anything else that relates to food prep that will fit. Beagle does prewash so I usually only have to sanitize; takes very little water.

Unless you think you need to access your battery system often I would put it on the floor, in a corner under the bed. I do have my fuse panel in an accessible place. My battery monitor is visible.

Things fall out of open cabinets.

I used wood for my build: cheap, easy to obtain and work with, adequate for this project.

FWIW, my build of a FWC Grandby:
https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/9972-renovating-sköldpaddan-–-1977-grandby-interior-build/