Diesel Conversion kit thoughts....

[gjackson]

One thing I've learned since I've been here is that PEOPLE LOVE THEIR LAND CRUISERS!!!!!!!!!!

. . . to the extent that they are all considering putting a Land Rover engine in theirs!!!

:shakin:

Sorry all, I couldn't resist. The 2.8 is an awesome motor, and I think that the conversion is worth the cost. It is an expensive motor. There are a lot of Land Rover people doing the same thing, the 2.8 is an upgraded 300tdi after all.

And no, I'm not trying to start an argument . . .

cheers

 

[ujoint]

That's a good point!! The Rovers have been using them as well.

 

[gjackson]

On the parts side Rover North does stock some parts for the 2.8.

cheers

 

[Hltoppr]

$16K including the engine is a very good price. Like Scott said, you can easily have a rig for the low to mid 20s that is "worth" much more than that, and be a reliable custom rig.

When I was looking for new rigs, the conversion was a big part of considering what I would end up with. I can only imagine the 2.8 in the Troopy...wow....

If my 2F wasn't running so darn well, I would really consider the $16K investment, as a half-cut 1HZ motor etc. would run me around $8K....with a used motor and lots of futzing around with getting it mounted in the new rig.

Heck...even at $16K...let's say another $5K for a professional installation....I'm still in less than a new JK or FJ cruiser (yes, that includes the vehicle purchase price)....that's saying something!

Now...If you need help fitting the 2.8 into a Troopy....:ylsmoke:

-H-

 

[BlueHZT60]

The engine transplant is a toss up. Having done a 60 - HZ transplant & having been a TLC costumer, it's a toss up. TLC does their job very well -when hire them, they do it properly - the first time in my experience.

1HZ transplant: Used engine, imported $4500 including H55 & turbo. Engine #2, $3500 including H55, no turbo. Add about $1500 to my door in fees (2002 prices).

Personal installation: I bogged at the electrical. Thus the process of finding a mechanic that would work on a Toyota Diesel - not easy. Found a great mechanic, paid for the electrical. Then black smoke & overheating. Lots of months, lots of dollars troubleshooting. In the end - bad engine. Lucky me - I have two engines.

Engine #2: pull the head, reman. the head. Rebuild the injection pump. Source a new Safari Turbo Kit. (That vaporized about 2-3 months & another $5,000+-).

Install #2, with new head, new pump, new turbo. Still overheating issues. New Alum. radiator, Toyota Red, Water wetter. Better, but not perfect enough to drive in 100+ with AC, at any speed.

All said and done: Way over $15000 & I still have a HZ/H55 to rebuild & I still have a minor overheating issue to tackle - assuming I still want to go 75mph uphill.

My TLC H55 transmission I purchased: Price on high end of what was available - it showed up on time, was perfect ready to roll for my application & it is still a perfect transmission - just attached to a 2f, sitting in a parking lot in Bend, Oregon right now. That was one of the easiest & best modification purchases I have made - thank you Jonathan.

If I had do-overs available: I'd do the HZ again, but not count on 1 week of down time. I'd rebuild the engine in advance (another $6,000-$8,000 time/materials) and put a fresh motor and drive-train into my 60. That math alone puts the engine easily at $12,000US.

Now the clincher: The 60 at the time was my work truck. I ended up renting an 80 series for $1/mile for 3,000 miles & driving a stock 60 series project for another year until I got the HZt60 to a point where it could be counted on.

It's a toss up between time & money & ability & tools & space. And to think, I did all this when the exchange rate was in USA favor and the price of diesel was less than gasoline.

Don't even try to figure out how many miles I'd have to put on to get close to break even - it's probably not in my life time.

The HZ did change things from 10mpg no matter what I did - floored most of time to: 17mpg no matter what I do (I don't drive for economy & have a giant Maggiolina on top) & I actually need to lighten the right foot sometimes - imagine that ; plus a verified front end wheelie on Moab Rim; and this vehicle is still computer free.

Enjoy, there are many different opinions, but in the end we all love our hobby/work/play. Bob

 

[ujoint]

We're going to order more 2.8's, and plan on doing so in the next 2 weeks. So how many of you want them??? Group buy???

 

[DesertRose]

I would be curious if those who believed the cost is too high have seen a TLC project up close. Not just in a magazine, but around it, in it, drive it?

For me, I see this amazing value in buying an FJ60 for 5k or so, then installing the diesel for another 17k, which puts you at 22k. Then spend another 5k on restoration efforts, OME, tires and wheels. That puts you at 27k for a vehicle that will absolutely last 20 years or more, looks awesome, tough as nails and you can take the pleasure in knowing that you recycled a classic expedition vehicle and can get better fuel economy than a CRV... Maybe a different way to think about it.
.

Scott said it best - and I tried to convey this line of thinking in the series of articles in Overland Journal.

My FJ60 cost only $2,500. The chance to get a brand new (read: MODERN) efficient engine and new transmission, with all the necessary parts to "plug and play" this is a fantastic deal.

I think people like Kevin (KMR, who is Overland Journal's diesel editor) can tell you that doing a from-scratch conversion using old/used engine is not easy, and you will have to do some fabricating and hair pulling.

TLC is offering to take care of all the "scary" stuff and you get the TLC quality details.

We'll have our "test model" done in a couple months. I could not afford to paint it yet (mechanicals first, cosmetics second - except for the seat covers, over course) but it will be a full mechanical refit.

As far as the expense of diesel right now: I think it's going to do back down a bit (it's a big supply/demand problem right now) but I also plan to run biodiesel and look into coops for making it here. The improved efficiency for both MPG and lower emissions/particulates will be worth it.

It's a great engine, too - after researching all the possibilities, this is the way to go for the LC. (Though remember, to get the best mileage, regearing will be necessary, so factor that in . . .)

 

[uzj100]

Bigger picture

I like the fact that you are recycling a vehicle and can burn bio fuel. That is great combination. Can you have AC with this swap? I am in NC and it gets hot and muggy and AC is a must have.

What about other applications? How about a used 97+ wrangler with this engine? I am not a jeep guy however if I could have a turbo diesel wrangler, that may sway me to purchase one.

Is there any swap application for an 80 or 100 series? The 2.8 seems a little small for those 2 heavy trucks.

 

[Hltoppr]

I guess I'll put it another way. If the 2F in my troopy died today...I'd be sending it in for the conversion at that price...plus install of course....

Money well spent IMHO.

-H-

 

[upcruiser]

Personally, I think the price seems great. My question is if their are any plans to create a kit for the FJ80 and FZJ80's. If I could do that swap into my FJ80 with a 5 speed, I would be a happy boy for life.

 

[ujoint]

FJ60's & 62's are the only platforms supporting the diesel swap right now.... Jonathan feels the full time 4wd system will be too much or the diesel engine to handle.

 

[upcruiser]

Bummer. I've never really had issues with the lack of power in the 3FE and I can't imagine that the International 2.8 would be anything but an improvement (similar horsepower but jump in torque) plus potential huge mpg gains. I love 60's to death and used to run one and would like to own one again someday but the difference in ride from the 60 to 80 keeps me thinking that a diesel powered 80 would be my perfect match of needs. If you guys ever want a test 80 to try that swap out on.....

 

[kjp1969]

I would be curious if those who believed the cost is too high have seen a TLC project up close. Not just in a magazine, but around it, in it, drive it?

For me, I see this amazing value in buying an FJ60 for 5k or so, then installing the diesel for another 17k, which puts you at 22k. Then spend another 5k on restoration efforts, OME, tires and wheels. That puts you at 27k for a vehicle that will absolutely last 20 years or more, looks awesome, tough as nails and you can take the pleasure in knowing that you recycled a classic expedition vehicle and can get better fuel economy than a CRV... Maybe a different way to think about it.

I made the same commitment, but with the Land Rover Discovery, and I am SO GLAD that I did.

Seems like at that price point, you could get a new or newish 4runner or Tacoma with a warranty and all the reliability inherent in a modern Toyota.

I like the uniqueness of a diesel 60 and the biofuel potential and you could justify the cost right there. But that's a lot of green for a 20 year old platform.

 

[Mike S]

TLC does indeed do good work. After talking with Roseann about her project, I called Jonathan at TLC to discuss diesel options for the 80 series and the abundant benefits of carbon fiber roof top tents.

I suggested that the about to be released GM 4.5L common rail turbodiesel (520 lbs. ft. of torque, and estimated 25 MPG in a 1/2 ton) would power my 80 nicely and could possibly take advantage of a lot of aftermarket adaptors as well. He responded intelligently to the effect that the electronics would be a nightmare, that the whole GM drive train would have to be transplanted, it would be a totally custom job (expensive), and that he really had no desire to do this.

So I decided to buy a new GM truck with a diesel, which would be cheaper than the cost of hydridizing the 80 I own now. If I didn't need to tow a trailer and carry a bunch of bird dogs, I'd probably take the same route - buy a nice 60, drop in a turbodiesel, and rebuild everything, and drive that on trips.

It's all about trade-offs.

 

[ntsqd]

Let me preface this by saying that I own a diesel VW for a daily driver. Very much in the spirit of recycling vehicles I bought a first gen Rabbit and have slowly been getting it reliable as a DD. (I prefer to think of it that way rather than my simply being cheap. )

With that, I do not think one can amortize the additional cost of a diesel engine with normal driving ranges and habits over the expected life of a modern vehicle. With exceptional ranges or habits or vehicle life or some combination of the three, sure. How many diesel owners have or are those exceptions?

So what it comes down to is 3rd world fuel availability and/or the intoxication of driving a diesel. And not by it's exhaust either.
I do not underestimate the power of the latter, and must admit to a degree of addiction. I bought that car because I wanted a diesel. I could get the same mileage from a later, soulless Honda.

I guess I'm saying that if you need to economically justify a diesel engine that you're already started off on the wrong trail.