Diesel Conversion kit thoughts....

[nickw]

I know that the 60 series has a mystique and a dedicated fan base. But let me present the bean counter's viewpoint about this conversion.

First, find a decent 60 from Arizona, a 25-30 year old vehicle, maybe 150,000 miles. Buy it for $2500. Now buy the diesel engine kit for $16K. Pay someone $3K to install. Total $21,500, plus the expenses associated with refurbishing a 25 year old vehicle (tires, brakes, transmission service, birfield rebuild, seat covers, maybe re-paint). Total will be close to $25K, maybe more.

Down at your friendly neighborhood Jeep dealer, you can purchase a brand new Grand Cherokee Laredo with Mercedes 3.0L V6 diesel (375 lb-ft of torque, EPA 25 mpg highway) for $31,200 (less if you already own a Jeep).

This price was effective Jan 28th, it may have changed. You may be able to negotiate a better deal. There are lots of dealers with 2008 diesel Grand Cherokees for sale. Check www.autotrader.com to find a dealer in your area.

For $6,200 more than the 60 series, you're buying a new vehicle with a warranty and dealer support. You're buying a vehicle that can be 100% financed, at a very low interest rate. In the current financial climate, I think financing the diesel conversion of the 60 would be a tough sell to your banker. And if you want to build the Grand Cherokee for more capable off-road performance, Jeep has tremendous support from aftermarket suppliers.

One more point: The Grand Cherokee meets 2008 emissions rules. The International diesel used in the 60 conversion is a modern engine, but it won't run as clean unless you pay for a particulate trap and catalytic converter. The Jeep will have no problem getting a license plate. The 60 series may have problems in states that are fussy about emissions.

I know that for a few people, having a classic 60 series with diesel engine is a dream, and the pride of ownership will make it worth the expense, and the hassle of finding parts and someone who can repair the unusual engine.

For most other people, the diesel Jeep would be a better choice.

Chip Haven

Looking at it from a life cycling costing standpoint - the cruiser is a much better value.

But you are right, no financing is a big deal and a hefty chunk of change.

 

[haven]

There certainly are good reasons to consider rebuilding an older Land Cruiser.

Let's assume life cycle costing means "the valuation of the environmental impacts of a given product or service caused or necessitated by its existence." Then the cost to build the vehicle needs to be considered. Recycling an existing vehicle is more energy and resource efficient than building a new one. I read someplace that half the environmental impact of a vehicle comes during its manufacture. This Cruiser rebuild does have a new engine and other pieces. But it's certainly more kind to Planet Earth to rebuild rather than buy new.

Another point to consider is that, in the event of an accident or a rust problem, the Cruiser's body-on-frame construction is easier and cheaper to repair than the Grand Cherokee's unibody. So the Cruiser is more likely to be repaired and put back into service.

If used as an ExPo vehicle outside Canada and USA, the Toyota would be a better choice because you're more likely to find parts locally, plus mechanics who are familiar with the vehicle. The diesel engine in the Grand Cherokee is used by Mercedes world-wide, but the Chrysler-sourced parts are less likely to be found in Tajikistan or Tanzania.

Chip Haven

 

[ChuckB]

Also, if your a California resident...Don't be surprised if you go to all the trouble and the referee dosen't sign off on your new title. Especially if you can not reference the motor to a legally inported (not graymarket) VIN number.

Rumor around the campfire is that they might be putting the kibosh on all gas to diesel swops.

I hope this isn't true. I'm trying to get back to CA, but now I'm starting to wonder why...

 

[lostworldexpedition]

There is that certain "Je nais se quoi" that Landcruisers have. I (like many in ExPo) have been borderline obssessed with 40's and 60's since I was a teenager when I got my first 40.

An FJ60 has a timeless design almost perfect for Overlanding with minor mods (just look at the 24+ year expedition of These guys). I still like the lines of the 60 as much as I did when they first came out, and I certainly cannot say that about many post 80's trucks. Parts are available just about worldwide, it is fairly simple design, no electronics, manual window cranks, tons of space and a reliable inline six engine... my main complaint has always been mileage (once you get over the sluggishness of the engine). I was lucky to get 11mpg.

Now I have an Australian Toyota 12HT inline 6 diesel engine and my mileage is in the low to mid 20's. With 50% biodiesel and an incoming Straight Veggie Oil kit (SVO). Man I love this engine, I know what Roseanne means when she says she feels like a teenager with her first car. I had absolutely no problem registering it in California, because the engine came from the same year Landcruiser. But to be honest with you the DMV really did not say much, they just looked at the truck and the engine and signed off. I may have been lucky.

I looked into getting the International engine from Jonathan at TLC, but the cost was prohibitive for my budget. If cost was not an issue I would have dropped it off at TLC in a second (who am I kidding I would probably buy an Icon if cost was not an issue:drool.

I think and hope/wish this rig will be around long after I am gone...

 

[ChuckB]

But to be honest with you the DMV really did not say much, they just looked at the truck and the engine and signed off. I may have been lucky.

I hope it is that easy... Nice 60 by the way!!

 

[Ducks]

I had absolutely no problem registering it in California, because the engine came from the same year Landcruiser. But to be honest with you the DMV really did not say much, they just looked at the truck and the engine and signed off. I may have been lucky.

Congratulations! You were very lucky. Officially it is not legal in California because the 12HT was never sold in a vehicle in California. The only legal diesel swap in California is with the mercedes benz diesel for an fj60. All the other diesels that were sold in California are from medium or heavy duty vehicles. And you can't put that in a light duty vehicle. If I were trying to get it past the DMV I would probably try and register it as a diesel in another state and then sneak it past California DMV. I'm actually moving back to Oregon in the fall so I won't have to worry about it.

How do you like the 12HT? That is my first choice. I want to run veggie oil on it. The inline pump should work well with the added strain. Was it hard finding an engine and did you have to rebuild it? Who did you have do the swap?

 

[haven]

It's my understanding that TLC worked out the details with CARB, at considerable time and expense, and got their approval for the International 3.0 swap kit. States with emissions laws similar to CA may or may not approve of the swap. Several other states don't seem to be bothered by the swap.

(Just curious: Dux, why do you use a photo of a Chukar, a relative of pheasants, as your avatar?)

Chip Haven

 

[lostworldexpedition]

PM sent to Ducks. No need for us to hijack this thread, sorry.

 

[Ducks]

It's my understanding that TLC worked out the details with CARB, at considerable time and expense, and got their approval for the International 3.0 swap kit. States with emissions laws similar to CA may or may not approve of the swap. Several other states don't seem to be bothered by the swap.

(Just curious: Dux, why do you use a photo of a Chukar, a relative of pheasants, as your avatar?)

Chip Haven

Wow, that is good to hear. I work for Ducks Unlimited but I mainly hunt chukar.

 

[Martyn]

I had absolutely no problem registering it in California, because the engine came from the same year Landcruiser. But to be honest with you the DMV really did not say much, they just looked at the truck and the engine and signed off. I may have been lucky.

Well keep that quiet as you managed to unwittingly find the loophole. If anyone wants to know how to go about this PM me, I'd prefer not to advertise it.

CARB sets the regulations up and every swap involving an engine other than the original type has to be certified by a DMV Referee Station.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Or just move next door to Nevada, where some counties don't have any smog requirements at all.

 

[DesertRose]

There certainly are good reasons to consider rebuilding an older Land Cruiser.

Let's assume life cycle costing means "the valuation of the environmental impacts of a given product or service caused or necessitated by its existence." Then the cost to build the vehicle needs to be considered. Recycling an existing vehicle is more energy and resource efficient than building a new one. I read someplace that half the environmental impact of a vehicle comes during its manufacture. This Cruiser rebuild does have a new engine and other pieces. But it's certainly more kind to Planet Earth to rebuild rather than buy new.

Another point to consider is that, in the event of an accident or a rust problem, the Cruiser's body-on-frame construction is easier and cheaper to repair than the Grand Cherokee's unibody. So the Cruiser is more likely to be repaired and put back into service.

If used as an ExPo vehicle outside Canada and USA, the Toyota would be a better choice because you're more likely to find parts locally, plus mechanics who are familiar with the vehicle. The diesel engine in the Grand Cherokee is used by Mercedes world-wide, but the Chrysler-sourced parts are less likely to be found in Tajikistan or Tanzania.

Chip Haven

Good points - though newer vehicles will of course have more safety features, like airbags. Something to consider.

And (before their economic meltdown) Jeep was trying hard to break into the international markets. They did their global debut of the JK in Arusha, Tanzania.