Diesel engine swap + what "expedition rig"?

Out of your list get the Land Cruiser with the third row seats. That way one kid can sit in back when they are older and it's not overflowing with gear. Drive the stock engine till it dies with good maintenance, then if it makes since to you do a diesel swap then. You might could even look at importing one that's already diesel if it's 25yrs old. If you go that route you really need to be the one that's going to work on it. I'm all about diesel's for off road but the only time they are cost effective is when the gasser dies. I'm looking into the option of a 2.8TGV for when the underpowered V8 in my Discovery finally ****s the bed. When that happens it'll be worth the 13-17,000 that it'll wind up running. But with that will come a full body off frame restoration.
 

Patman

Explorer
How about a Suburban, swap in a 4bt or a 6bt. Get a 4 speed atlas behind a 4l80e. Gear the axles WAY upn(numerically low). Shoot for 1200 rpm at a realistic cruise speed. Keep it low enough and clean enough outside (I.e. no roof rack) to stay slippery in he wind. Should be able to get high 20s even low 30s as long as you drive it right. The atlas will give you all the gearing you need for anything but worst rocks.

5 people in anything but a full size is awefully "cozy"
 
After reading through all the posts and your new thread I have a few recommendations for you. I have owned many diesels over the years and currently own a 2000 Mitsubishi Montero, 1985 Mitsubishi Turbo Diesel and a 2009 VW Sportwagen TDI. Over the years I have had two 1996 Toyota FJ80's, 2005 Jeep liberty CRD, and many other vehicles. The main issue I see with a diesel swap into any vehicle is, can it be cost effective. If you are going to do a diesel swap you will always save a lot of time and money if the engine is a bolt in. The only bolt in I am aware of for the Cherokee is the 2.5/2.8 VM Motori. I have seen this motor installed but its a lot of work.

Realistically I would recommend getting a nice 1995-1999 Montero with the rear locker. They can fit 31-33" tires without any lift, they seat seven with a lot more comfort the my Land Cruisers. I am 6'7" I and I can sit comfortably in the second row of my Montero with the front seats all the way back. My cousins XL7 feels more like a honda civic in the rear seat. While my 2000 Montero is mostly stock (I have a big roof rack and RTT) and only has 30K miles, I have never seen less the 19mpg combined. It is not unusual to see 22-24mpg on the open road at 65mph. The best part about the Montero is you get a rig that is completely over built from the factory, a rear locker, an awesome tcase that has 2wd, AWD, 4Hi and 4Lo. The trannys are the best automatic trannys I have ever driven. They are so smooth and very durable with proper maintenance. While Mitsubishi sold around 100k monteros a year during the 1990's, they never got enough credit from the so called experts of the day. The Land Cruiser seemed to get all the accolades. I have owned a couple of both and the Montero is a better vehicle, especially when it comes to overlanding and daily driving, not to mention it has more luxuries. The biggest down side the the Montero is the aftermarket support. It's somewhat limited, but bumpers, sliders, lifts, snorkels, roof racks, lockers, crawler gears etc are available. Another thing to consider is doing a diesel swap on a Montero is very straight forward because all the foreign markets received the diesel montero. Get a Montero, drive it for a year or two and then swap in a 4d56 or a 4M40 Diesel engine. Both of these engines are a direct bolt in, depending on the model and year.

You think someone would have taken notice of how well built the Montero is after it won the Dakar race time and time again. Back when the Montero dominated the Dakar, the field was comprised of factory vehicles instead of million dollar buggies with fiberglass shells. The Montero is truly an offroad legend.
 
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Bdiddy11

Adventurer
4d55, do you recommend the 95-99 because only those years came with a factory rear locker or is there something else about those years? And is it the basic Montero or the Montero Sport as well? Are you getting 19mpg mixed with a stick or auto?

I didn't know that Montys had a 3rd row, is it all Monteros or certain trim levels...? Haven't done much research into them but it sounds like they might be a viable replacement.

@Patman... as I said earlier, my wife isn't a fan of Suburbans or Excursions etc. That's what makes this more difficult is finding something big enough, but still appealing to my wife and myself.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Diesel vehicle availability in the USA just plain sucks, especially in vehicles that most people would find a useful universal size.

With proper setup and NOT driving like a crazy american at 80+ on the Interstate 20+ mpg is very possible. My old 92 dodge with 300,000+ miles pushing a 6800+ vehicle with the aerodynamics of a barn rolling on an aggressive 39" tire still returns 20+ mpg AVERAGE on road trips if I keep the speed under 70mph.

In your position, I would probably get a 2003-2007 Dodge quad cab with the 5.9 Cummins. Room for kids, room for gear in the bed, can tow anything, etc. Off-road they do fairly well and can be retrofitted with all the normal toys....lockers, gearing, etc. That body style will also take a 37" tire on stock wheels with just a leveling kit and moving the axles a touch.

Just a thought.
 
4d55, do you recommend the 95-99 because only those years came with a factory rear locker or is there something else about those years? And is it the basic Montero or the Montero Sport as well? Are you getting 19mpg mixed with a stick or auto?

I didn't know that Montys had a 3rd row, is it all Monteros or certain trim levels...? Haven't done much research into them but it sounds like they might be a viable replacement.

@Patman... as I said earlier, my wife isn't a fan of Suburbans or Excursions etc. That's what makes this more difficult is finding something big enough, but still appealing to my wife and myself.

I recommend the 1995-1999 Montero because they have the larger 3.5 engine, larger axles, rear locker, updated tranny and the 4 mode tcase (2hi, AWD, 4hi, 4Lo) . The fullsize Montero which seats 7 is much different than the Montero Sport which seat 5 passengers. The Fullsize Montero rides on it's own platform, the Montero Sport shares a platform with Mitsubishi's pickup. The tricky part about selecting a 1995-1999 Montero is there were big changes almost every year. The 2000 Montero did not have a rear locker option but upgrading to a rear locker is not a big deal. I currently get 19mpg with an automatic. A manual trans was never offered with the 3.5L engine here in the states. You can get a 1992-1996 with 3.0L (177hp) and a manual trans, but you get the smaller axles, no rear locker and 3 mode tcase (2Hi, 4Hi, 4lo). My 2000 with 3.5 gets 4-5 MPG better fuel economy than my 3.0 did. I typically hate automatic trannies but these trannies are great. All fullsize Montero's came with 3 rows of seating. The nicest part is all 3 rows recline and can even fold into a bed like the VW buses. It's pretty cool.

An important thing to note about Montero's are there are no weak spots or design flaws with vehicle, which is rare. Most failures are due to poor maintenance and abuse. Some owners have reported issues with the valve guide seals which cause the vehicle to burn oil at start up. But what do you expect from a 15-20 year old vehicle. Some report failures with the butterfly valves on the 3.5 DOHC, but failures are not common and the intake can be modified.

1995-1996 Montero SR came with a 3.5L DOHC 215hp and 225ft lb torque. They had 4.63 gears, Rear Locker, adjustable suspension, and a 4 speed automatic transmission. They also had plastic fender flares and can fit 31" tires with out any mods. Because the 95-96 Montero had more horsepower and a lower gear ratio, the vehicle has more get up and go, but fuel mileage is slightly lower.

1994_mitsubishi_montero_4dr-suv_sr_fq_oem_1_500.jpg

1997 Montero retained the same body but was upgraded to 3.5L SOHC 200hp and 228ft lb torque. The SOHC engine is less powerful but has a tiny bit more torque. It is believed to be more reliable because there are no butterfly valves, which some owners reported issues with on the 1995-1996 model years. The axle ratio was changed to 4.27 and fuel mileage was slightly improved. Because the same body was retained 31" tires will fit without any modifications. The rear locker was available on vehicles with the winter package.



1998-1999 Montero marked a change in body and they are referred to as a Gen II.5 Montero. The changes to the body were to the fenders and headlights. No longer did the Montero have plastic fender flares, but it had steel blister fenders. The headlights were upgrades to clear glass units that never haze and look great. The Montero retained to SOHC 3.5L engine and the 4.27 gear ratio. The rear locker was still available on the winter package. Because the wheel openings were larger with the new body style, 33" tires can be fitted with little or no modifications. Here is a picture of RogerH Gen II.5 Montero.

Click Photo for fullsize
Rogers Montero.jpg

2000 Montero retained the same Gen II.5 body, the 3.5 SOHC engine, and 4.27 gearing , but it was not available with a rear locker. It did offer an Endeavor Package which included premium sound, heated seats, etc. For the most part all the Endeavor features were available on previous model years except the security system and premium sound system.
 

Jeff@QuadShop

Explorer
I'll second what 4D55 said, I have a 99 Montero SR/Winter package and love it! It has 140k on it now with no issues at all. It has tons of room and rides great. It also does very well offroad with the locker even in bone stock trim. If the stock engine ever dies, I will swap in a 4M40 diesel.
 

Bdiddy11

Adventurer
Well, the Montero is sounding more appealing. How big of a child could fit in the 3rd row and how is it in the rear seat for adult passengers? When looking at Monteros, how do I tell if it has the Winter package? Is there a locker switch somewhere on the console? Some people don't know what they have when selling it and are oblivious about certain packages.

How would you say the ride is on road and off? Comfort-wise. I know it's not going to be a caddy, and I assume higher end shocks could be put on to help make it more comfortable. Is it fairly easy to work on them being a novice mechanic with tutorials/OEM manual?
 

reece146

Automotive Artist
How is towing with a Monty of his vintage? Thinking ~5000 lb race car trailer. Tow ratings online say 5000 lbs but is that realistic?/practical to control the load?
 
Well, the Montero is sounding more appealing. How big of a child could fit in the 3rd row and how is it in the rear seat for adult passengers? When looking at Monteros, how do I tell if it has the Winter package? Is there a locker switch somewhere on the console? Some people don't know what they have when selling it and are oblivious about certain packages.

How would you say the ride is on road and off? Comfort-wise. I know it's not going to be a caddy, and I assume higher end shocks could be put on to help make it more comfortable. Is it fairly easy to work on them being a novice mechanic with tutorials/OEM manual?

The 3rd row will easily accommodate children under 13-14 years of age. I think the cut off is about 5'8" but that just me. The second row is the most roomy row in the whole vehicle. I am 6'7" and 320 lbs and I have no issue sitting in the second row with the front seats all the way back. I do like to recline the second row a bit for my own comfort, but the 5 footers sitting in the 3rd row don't seem to mind. The ride offroad is all dependent on the year, and trim level because some Montero's came with adjustable suspensions. Aftermarket suspensions are available from Old Man Emu. As for the locker switch it is in the console, but just look for a giant (4x6) orange sticker on the drivers side of the center console near the gas pedal. Yeah if you want Caddy ride comfort then the Gen III (2001-2006) Montero with front and rear independent suspension is a great option. I really like the Gen III and I will own one someday, but the Gen II-II.5 is a better platform for overlanding in my opinion. As far as playing weekend mechanic, the Montero is a great vehicle to work on. The guys on www.4x4wire.com are always willing to help, factory manuals are available, and parts are relatively cheap though www.Rockauto.com

Just make sure you replace the timing belt every 80K miles and when you replace the spark plugs make sure to use lifetime iridium plugs because changing plugs is a PITA when compared to other vehicles.
 
How is towing with a Monty of his vintage? Thinking ~5000 lb race car trailer. Tow ratings online say 5000 lbs but is that realistic?/practical to control the load?

With 4.63-4.90 gearing, an aftermarket tranny cooler and trailer brakes I wouldn't hesitate to tow 5000lbs. Others may chime in, but I just hate towing with out trailer brakes on any rig.
 

Jeff@QuadShop

Explorer
The 3rd row will easily accommodate children under 13-14 years of age. I think the cut off is about 5'8" but that just me. The second row is the most roomy row in the whole vehicle. I am 6'7" and 320 lbs and I have no issue sitting in the second row with the front seats all the way back. I do like to recline the second row a bit for my own comfort, but the 5 footers sitting in the 3rd row don't seem to mind. The ride offroad is all dependent on the year, and trim level because some Montero's came with adjustable suspensions. Aftermarket suspensions are available from Old Man Emu. As for the locker switch it is in the console, but just look for a giant (4x6) orange sticker on the drivers side of the center console near the gas pedal. Yeah if you want Caddy ride comfort then the Gen III (2001-2006) Montero with front and rear independent suspension is a great option. I really like the Gen III and I will own one someday, but the Gen II-II.5 is a better platform for overlanding in my opinion. As far as playing weekend mechanic, the Montero is a great vehicle to work on. The guys on www.4x4wire.com are always willing to help, factory manuals are available, and parts are relatively cheap though www.Rockauto.com

Just make sure you replace the timing belt every 80K miles and when you replace the spark plugs make sure to use lifetime iridium plugs because changing plugs is a PITA when compared to other vehicles.

I'll second everything 4D55 said.

The locker came with the SR package up untill 97. 98-99 they did away with the SR name and called it the winter package.
 
I'll second everything 4D55 said.

The locker came with the SR package up untill 97. 98-99 they did away with the SR name and called it the winter package.

I am just waiting for Jeff to blowup his motor because I want to see a 4M40 swap into a US spec Montero. If it is anything like his other projects, I am sure it will be gorgeous.:elkgrin:

Jeff, do you know if MaxOverdrive can get a hold of crate 4M40 engines? If so, do you know how much they run?
 

Bdiddy11

Adventurer
Good to know about the interior space., i'm 6'3” so whoever sits behind me in the XJ suffers. I imagine that a couple of car seats and booster seats would work fine then?

Do they get better mpg.with 32” tires due to the 4.56 ratio or with the stock 31”?
 

rocrunr

Adventurer
So where to start? I'm a fan of most diesels,that said I like Cherokees for what they are.If you start with a 4bt. then what? transmission and chain driven cherokee cases are weak as with the Dana 30/35 combo unless you swing 44's under it. The spring rates are to light so the suspension upgrade is required. The unibody are weak unless you plate both sides. You are building a complete truck. Cherokee is not a good starting point. Buy a Land cruiser 60,62 or which ever you want at least you'll have a full frame,solid axles and transfer case to build upon. As said before not sure about the seating 5 comfortably idea,but you will be ahead money wise. Just my opinion.
 

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