Diesel for overlanding- are you happy with the choice?
- Thread starter GreggNY
- Start date
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
SRW = gas.
DRW = diesel.
I haven't seen many legit arguments otherwise. Enclosed utility bodies are heavy like porkier slide in campers. It's not uncommon for all fleet trucks over 10,000# GVWR to be DRW.
DRW dump trucks and crane or bucket trucks never go on the highway. It's not uncommon for weird trucks like that to be gas. Expect ''local only'' medium duty trucks to start going gas. Milk trucks, UPS, etc.etc.
nickw
Adventurer
Well said.
I can appreciate your experience, but seems like what you are really comparing is a Tacoma vs a F350. Even a diesel Tacoma (if they made them) would have many of the same problems you were experiencing. Likewise, a F350 in Gas vs Diesel would probably both cater to your needs. With that said, I do agree diesel can certainly be a smoother and more effortless cruise, particularly when loaded down.I can chime in here.
I've always owned gas vehicles and they've all served me well when used and loaded within their intended limits. With that being said, almost everything I've owned got lifted, bigger tires, accessories, mods, etc. Once that happens you take a decent hit in power and mpg. But I was used to it and accepted it was part of modifications. I've also done quite a bit of towing with all of them, and that part sucks. Fine for level ground or small inclines but long grades, gusty wind, unexpected panic stops and gallons per mile made it a absolute chore. Now, I've never owned a full size with the biggest gasser option or any of the new turbo stuff and I'm sure there's a difference there.
A big part of selling my built Tacoma was the thing became a pig to drive. Just the bumpers, drawer, rack and aerodynamic hit really made it not great to drive for anything other then a off road trip. Even then, when it was loaded up for one it felt maxed out. Add on the RTT, lights, fridge, firewood, camping gear, people, extra gas, water, etc etc etc and it's almost too much. Cruise control was worthless, wouldn't hold a gear on any sort of grade, gas mileage was a absolute joke, would smoke brakes within 10-15k and cross-winds were sometimes pretty scary. Then having to tow my boat with it.... LOL. Yeah, not fun.
A buddy of mine has always been into diesels and on occasion through the years I'd get to drive his rigs, unloaded as well as fully loaded towing. It was a real eye opener on how different and comfortable it was to drive in both configurations. Unloaded, the diesel would just glide effortlessly and appear to sip on fuel. Loaded down, the diesel would still just glide effortlessly and maybe use a little more fuel. But there was no white knuckles, no getting a run at grades, no stopping constantly at gas stations, no worries about being able to stop and it felt sure footed at all times.
So the Tacoma sold and I bought a 06 F350. Not as a Tacoma/Overland/Off-road replacement rig but as something that can do everything pretty damn well. And it's done so thus far. I absolutely LOVE driving it. It's also in the early years of diesel emissions so it's only got a basic EGR system and a catalytic converter which is a big plus.
The power, room, fuel range, bed space and driving characteristics make driving so comfortable and enjoyable. And it doesn't matter if you're flying solo or it's loaded to the max, "it don't care".
There's down sides obviously, but I knew that going into it. Less off-road opportunities, maintenance, repair and a overall increase in cost of ownership.
I do all my own maintenance and repairs and the common parts aren't too far off from the gas counterparts. There's more to them of course, but not paying a "diesel shop" and parts mark-up for a medium/heavy duty truck makes it not so bad.
It'll be REALLY hard to get me back into a gasser truck, that's for sure.
nickw
Adventurer
Milk trucks, lol, is that still a thing? I don't disagree per-se, just that many fleet owners are starting to switch. Will be interesting to see how the new Fordzilla big block powerplant is received and how the other manuf may react.
1MK
ExploreDesert
That's exactly what I'm doing, as well as other vehicle I've owned...
Just sharing my personal experience which is not to be compared to yours or anyone else's.
Diesels are most certainly devolving from a "simplicity" perspective, but then again so are gasoline engines (cylinder de-activation, direct injection, turbo's, increasingly complex ignition and timing strategies). So pick your poison. None of these modern engines are ones that can be diagnosed and fixed on the roadside, unless you happen to be a trained mechanic with thousands of dollars of equipment and software at your disposal. As EV, hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles become more prominent, that trend will only continue.
As for the "tide" shifting, I have no idea what people are basing that off of. Diesels are still far and away the preferred choice for 4x4's in overseas markets. Emissions controls and ULSD are quickly being adopted by many of those countries. Historically, diesel in North America never really had any discernible market share outside of 3/4 ton and commercial markets for a number of reasons. Nowadays, we have diesel midsize trucks and 1/2 ton's, in addition to the 3/4 tons and commercial market....and more on the way. So why some people think OEM's are going to shift away from diesel engines, after they've already made significant investments and gains in that technology is beyond my comprehension.
Also, you don't need to tow +12klb loads in order to "justify" diesels. They offer a tangible (and felt) advantage in terms of torque which is relevant to hauling heavy payloads and just driving through various types of terrain. If you don't want the cost associated with a 1000lb-ft 3/4 ton diesel, there are much more economical diesel options out there. It's foolish to imply that diesels are only useful for towing heavy loads...that argument fails to appreciate just how useful low-end torque is for most 4x4 applications.
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Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
Even the measly anemic Ford 5.4l would snap one ton axles like a twig, off road. A bit slow on the highway, but a beast in 4L. Not unlike the YJ's I used to run. The 4 cyl was fine offroad if your tires weren't too oversized. The 4.0's major advantage was on the street.
Don't underestimate the torque of modern gas engines in the fullsize trucks. I generally would check the state of tune, or gear ratio, for people complaining about such.
Gas vs diesel in fillsize trucks, is a completely different argument than gas vs diesel ZR2, Tacoma vs Hilux, etc. etc.
Don't underestimate the torque of modern gas engines in the fullsize trucks. I generally would check the state of tune, or gear ratio, for people complaining about such.
Gas vs diesel in fillsize trucks, is a completely different argument than gas vs diesel ZR2, Tacoma vs Hilux, etc. etc.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Open you eyes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterl...el-in-wake-of-emissions-scandal/#26de6ab6f1cd
https://auto.economictimes.indiatim...t-implementation-of-bs-vi-norms-icra/64302519
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44687784
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-sooner-than-expected-says-eu-industry-chief
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/steering-away-from-diesel/article27035520.ece
https://www.autocarpro.in/opinion-c...m-in-india,-market-share-set-to-decline-40101
I have. If you read about what companies are actually doing versus what journalists think/predict, you'd see that diesel vehicles are a heavy focus for many OEM's.
Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Mitsubishi, Mercedes, ect. are still producing diesel 4x4's and cars for all of the overseas markets.
North American OEM's are still producing diesel trucks for individual consumers and commercial buyers...there are more diesel truck options for the NA market now than there were 10 years ago.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
And yet Ford's bringing a big block gas engine to market.
That slides right in perfectly between the current gas engine, and the diesel, powerwise. To give medium duty local trucks a better option. And to give glampers a better option, if they only glamp a few weeks every year. Or want, not need, more power. Like 90% of the diesel glampers out there.
Already seeing more and more GM/PSI 8.8l gas engines in medium duty trucks.
That slides right in perfectly between the current gas engine, and the diesel, powerwise. To give medium duty local trucks a better option. And to give glampers a better option, if they only glamp a few weeks every year. Or want, not need, more power. Like 90% of the diesel glampers out there.
Already seeing more and more GM/PSI 8.8l gas engines in medium duty trucks.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Yep, and just because they are making and selling diesels doesn't mean the landscape hasn't and isn't changing.
And that's the point. The landscape has changed for many reasons, all related to that ever narrowing gap between performance and efficiency between gassers and diesels.
To assume that OEMs are not and will not respond is completely ignorant.
And that's the point. The landscape has changed for many reasons, all related to that ever narrowing gap between performance and efficiency between gassers and diesels.
To assume that OEMs are not and will not respond is completely ignorant.
You're kidding yourself if you think those big displacement gasoline engines are in going to take away from the demand for diesel in any form or fashion. For the foreseeable future, there will be a demand for 3/4 ton gasoline trucks...and there will be a demand for diesel 3/4 ton's.
The landscape is changing in a few different ways. I'm pointing out that one of those changes over the last 10 years is that the North American market has more diesel options, not less. Ford and GM have literally just started to introduce diesel options for the 1/2 ton market. If the OEM's were truly moving away from diesel, as you suggest they are, why are they all of a sudden starting to introduce more diesel truck options?
The efficiency and performance "gaps" haven't really narrowed all that much. Gasoline engines have improved over the years, but then again so have diesels. The big gasoline v8's are still comparatively inefficient and the small-displacement turbo v6's and 4 cylinders tend to suck down fuel when under load. There have been a bunch of incremental improvements to vehicle efficiency (many of which have nothing to do with the engine itself), but it's not as if there has been some major innovation that has revolutionized the gasoline engine's capabilities.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Again, ignorance. There is life beyond the US borders, believe it or not.
This is a global industry, changes beyond the US borders directly effect that of the US.
Many places already have in effect diesel bans, and many more are on the horizon.
https://dearman.co.uk/media/global-diesel-ban-and-restrictions-updates/
This is a global industry, changes beyond the US borders directly effect that of the US.
Many places already have in effect diesel bans, and many more are on the horizon.
https://dearman.co.uk/media/global-diesel-ban-and-restrictions-updates/
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
Someone from the great white NE should know better.
https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/features/power/
Gas engines in F550, F650, F750's are selling like hotcakes. The new 7.3 will be even better. Darn good truck plant as well. Not to mention v10 CNG trucks for Fleets
Many people are switching back to gas right now. There's absolutely huge demand for big gas engines without the diesels reliability headaches. Sure, some half ton diesels are coming out as well. Texas shmucks have demands to. But that group doesn't deny the fact that fleets, RV'ers, and Expo types are flocking back towards gas engines right now.
The thinking is, if the diesel is only advantageous for a fraction of it's use, but a downtime liability for ALL of it's use, let's go gas anywhere we can get away with it. Local trucks, light trucks, and SRW trucks. Some of our fleets that still have a diesel bias, are upgrading to larger trucks to hang onto the DRW excuse for diesels. Hopefully the heavier trucks will keep the engines cleaned out better.
Broken vs Not Broken, downtime is a killer for professionals, and miserable for overlanders burning vacation days. ''I want to go to a Dodge dealer and camp out in their back parking lot.'' Said no overlander ever.
https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/features/power/
Gas engines in F550, F650, F750's are selling like hotcakes. The new 7.3 will be even better. Darn good truck plant as well. Not to mention v10 CNG trucks for Fleets
Many people are switching back to gas right now. There's absolutely huge demand for big gas engines without the diesels reliability headaches. Sure, some half ton diesels are coming out as well. Texas shmucks have demands to. But that group doesn't deny the fact that fleets, RV'ers, and Expo types are flocking back towards gas engines right now.
The thinking is, if the diesel is only advantageous for a fraction of it's use, but a downtime liability for ALL of it's use, let's go gas anywhere we can get away with it. Local trucks, light trucks, and SRW trucks. Some of our fleets that still have a diesel bias, are upgrading to larger trucks to hang onto the DRW excuse for diesels. Hopefully the heavier trucks will keep the engines cleaned out better.
Broken vs Not Broken, downtime is a killer for professionals, and miserable for overlanders burning vacation days. ''I want to go to a Dodge dealer and camp out in their back parking lot.'' Said no overlander ever.
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charlieaarons
Explorer
Um, do you know how Westport’s HPDI system works. Maybe not. I of course investigated it before I made $20k investing in Westport a decade ago. Thinking about it again.
HPDI uses the diesel cycle unlike all other NG engines which use Otto. A special injector squirts CNG into the combustion chamber just before TDC. It does not self ignite since NG has a very high self ignition temperature. Shortly after a pilot injection of diesel fuel acts as the ignition source. The key thing is that it uses the diesel cycle. Higher compression and no throttling losses makes high efficiency and capable of more torque.
Diesel isn’t dead, just most of the fuel is replaced by NG.
Did you know how HPDI works when you made the post?