DorB
Adventurer
The sales charts say different.
In countries where you can choose, The gas hilux sales numbers are almost negligible even when the diesel is more expensive.
Look for the Australian sales numbers.
Difference between Hilux & Tacoma
- Thread starter Joash
- Start date
In countries where you can choose, The gas hilux sales numbers are almost negligible even when the diesel is more expensive.
Look for the Australian sales numbers.
DorB
Adventurer
A camel..
Or everything else..
I weighted my1997 hilux, packed for travel, with Water system, toolbox+critical spare parts, fire wood, fridge+cooler, personal equipment for 3-4 passengers ( that is if your not carrying all your tribe in the bed..) tent, extra fuel, Winch+bumpers+bash plates, and it got to the max load limit, which is 815kg/1900lb.
The truck itself is almost 4,200 lb.
Clutch
<---Pass
Not sure about where you live, but most of the municipalities I have lived in (USA) respond to car accidents similarly. I lived in one place where, beyond the injury/malice/fire requirement, they would respond if the damage was greater than $1000. I laughed when I heard that. Now, after just having had an accident, I have to be an adjuster, and determine if the value of damage is >$1000?
If you watch the news, it seems like most of them are loaded down with mounted machine guns...
Kinda hard to lust after what you can't have, if you can have either. That was the point.
Theres also some motor fuel tax avoidance strategies which are very common in countries which still use or have available oil sold for heat, that simply don't exist in the US. Gas Taco sales would dwarf diesel Hilux sales in the US if both were offered. Kinda like 2wd pre runner Taco sales dwarf 4x4s. A 4x4 diesel world market Hilux would struggle to leave the lots even as often as 200 series Cruisers. Dont forget import tariffs, if any still apply, to an imported Japanese built compact truck.
Until the EPA is turned inside out, diesel is on its way out in the US. The acquisition, operation, and maintenance costs here simply dont pan out when compared to gas. And the majority of Americans cant even do the math.
How well have the 5.7 gassers sold in the US? I wonder how many states in the US havent exceeded the entire worldwide sales outside the US?
"This was the month that the new Duramax diesel Colorado and Canyon trucks first appeared on dealer lots. Diesel truck fans take note. Sales declined when they were introduced, and thus had no positive impact on the company's mid-size truck sales. Exactly as Toyota predicted.".
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Where did that quote come from? Who ever said it is way off. Colorado/Canyon sales jumped from ~11k in 2014 to ~114k in 2015 and ~146k in 2016. Sales exceeded a lot of market analysts' expectations, and I'm sure the introduction of the Duramax to a mid-sized truck had something to do with that.
There is a market where both Hilux and Tacoma both available, Great Mother Russia. Frozen damned land, sometime you can't even turn your engine off in the night or it will never start again. Got to use some kind of electric heater or webasto for keeping engine warm during the cold.
I've driven Tacoma back in California few years ago and now run my Hilux near Kubinka Airbase. My feeling, Tacoma is nice but it's a chicken, feels like a nice toy, while Hilux is a specnaz killer, a real deal. Been loosing car parts from Tacoma on Highway 7 driving it same way I do with Hilux .. Altough close to Moscow, you dont really do as much off-roading, but still there are blizzards, few inches of wet snow, sometime weather conditions can be lethal. Hilux is the vehicle to trust altough don't forget your high-jack and strong ropes when cutting some firewood for your country house, and get trapped in deep snow or hidden river. Manual transmittion is the best choice for our country, altough rare city boys prefer automatic or even Dodge Rams, I don't consider automatic very practical. Few ArticTruck hiluxes in the area, including 3-axis 6x6 mods with added Gelandewagen 3-rd axis, never heard they work with Tacomas.
Just looking into auto.ru used car offerings, it's only 9 Tacomas offered for the entire 140M+ country and hunderds and hunderds of Hilux diesel trucks on sale. The market has spoken for Diesel, and even the most frozen polar part of Russia prefers Diesel over Gas, I guess for torque and robustness. Oil companies buy Hiluxes for their polar circle operations. Hilux is a bullet on highway as well, just can't stop collecting speeding tickets from speedcams.
Speaking of diesel price, Hilux is probably 3x cheaper to drive for milage/kilometrage, and also russian transportation tax is so much lower for diesel pickups. So on the money side, Hilux is an absolute winnver over nearly any gasoline pickup and even most of the passenger cars. Very effective vehicle to own. Sorry for my english.
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dman93
Adventurer
Diesel is not just on its way out in the US ... there seems to be a rising tide of concern with diesel emissions in much of Europe, as well as cost-of-ownership in the US. I've recently talked with 3 guys who switched from Powerstroke to EcoBoost (2) and Cummins to Hemi (1) and are very happy with the trade offs. All tow regularly. Based on my limited knowledge , the benefits of Hilux vs Tacoma are less inherent to the vehicles, and more related to country preferences: diesel is one, but also things like available roll-up windows, manual transmissions, a real shifter for the transfer case, etc.
lugueto
Adventurer
I'd have to agree: The Tacoma is a more refined and inevitably less rugged version of the Hilux. As said, the Hilux has more payload, more rugged, diesel option, maybe more capable off road?. The Tacoma has more comfort and better road manners. I don't think the Taco is a flimsy vehicle, just the Hilux is more rugged, that's all.
If I had the choice, I'd go with the Hilux for no other reason than they're way more popular down here, so finding spare parts is easier. This is no surprise, Toyota manufactures Hiluxes here whereas the Tacomas as individually (and sometimes illegally) imported.
If I had the choice, I'd go with the Hilux for no other reason than they're way more popular down here, so finding spare parts is easier. This is no surprise, Toyota manufactures Hiluxes here whereas the Tacomas as individually (and sometimes illegally) imported.
Europe is an entirely different ball-game from the US or the rest of the world. For the longest time, they had few if any emissions regulations (and thus emissions controls) for their diesel engines...and they promoted diesel engines as a more eco-friendly and more economical alternative to traditional gasoline engines for small commuter cars (which is true if we are focused purely on fuel costs and CO2 emissions). When the governments over there started to realize there were some environmental issues with having so many passenger diesel vehicles in congested cities (NOX, particulate matter) they started to put more strict emissions regulations in place, and many car companies (cough...Volkswagen..cough...Fiat) decided to cheat on the emissions testing rather than abide by the rules. Diesel is not on its way out of Europe; it still does, and will continue to see great use in many medium & heavy truck/SUV applications, trains, marine equipment, industrial applications, just like it does here in the States and elsewhere throughout the world. The low-end torque inherent to a diesel engine cannot be beat, even by a gasoline turbo engine, and there are still many applications where such a powerplant makes sense.
The change you will see is that European car-markers will start to move away from putting diesel engines in their small commuter cars for a number of reasons: diesel causes harmful pollution which is exacerbated in high-congestion cities; the Europeans haven't really spent much time or effort in refining/improving diesel emissions controls the way American and Asian companies have; the general public and European governments are very distrustful of anything being marketed as a "clean" diesel engine due to past transgressions by the European car companies (and rightly so).
The American diesel market (at least for trucks and SUV's) seems to be growing; it's no longer limited to 3/4 ton trucks as we now see offerings in full-size and mid-size trucks and SUV's. Most of the American companies seem to have put a lot of effort into making emissions-compliant engines, the only exception to that trend are diesel engines that have European roots (cough...Fiat...cough...Volkswagen). And the reliability on these new emissions-laden systems has been greatly improved from when they first came out. Cost of ownership and purchase is a new challenge for diesel owners, but that's the norm with any new technology when it first hits the market; over time, as diesel trucks become more common, the cost of repairs, parts and maintenance will come down.
As for the rest of the world, if you've done just a little bit of travelling in non-European countries, you'll realize that diesel engines are pretty much the only option for trucks, SUV's and vans.
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Clutch
<---Pass
Guessing diesel is on its' way out here. And just when we started getting small diesels.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/...ral-motors-diesel-emissions-lawsuit.html?_r=0
I wouldn't rush to judgement on that. Similar allegations were brought up against some of Cummins' engines. And unlike Volkswagen (which admitted quite quickly that their emissions systems had cheated the regulations), both Cummins and GM have remained adamant that their emissions systems are legal. A lot of these lawsuits get brought up under the assumption that the targeted company will find it cheaper and easier to hand out settlements rather than fight them in court. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with this particular example, but I think we'll have to wait and see how it turns out before we rush to judgement. The group that exposed the cheating scandal with Volkswagen had pretty conclusive evidence. Does anything of the sort exist in GM's case?
The only other emissions scandal case that seems to have any real meat to it is the 3.0l Ecodiesel in the Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee (again, a European-sourced engine). It's to the point where California won't allow new vehicles with those engines to be sold in their state until the issue has been resolved.
All that said, I think people who say that diesel is on its way out of the US aren't really paying attention to overall market trends. Diesel engines still are the primary powerplant of choice for big rigs, construction, agricultural, marine and industrial/offroad equipment. And their use within onroad passenger vehicles has grown exponentially over the last few years and will likely continue to over the coming years: FCA's ecodiesel offerings, 2.8l duramax in GM pickup's, v6 powerstroke for upcoming F-150, rumored diesel option for the next Jeep Wrangler, rumored diesel for the new Ford Ranger, 5.0l cummins in the new Titan, Cummins' crate engine program, not to mention the continuing popularity of diesels within the 3/4 ton segment.
Go back 10 years, heck even 5 years; did we have anywhere near the amount of diesel options that we have today?
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onemanarmy
Explorer
The Hilux gained its reputation in the 80s and 90s when the American trucks were all going IFS and getting more creature comforts.
The rest of the world Toyota trucks were solid axle, diesel, crew cab, dead simple. America got IFS, AC, power windows and locks. Completely different purposes.
In the late 70's and early 80s, there was no difference between the 'Pickup' and the 'Hilux'....The Hilux that Top Gear destroyed was a truck that could have been bought in America.
Now, with the engineering and manufacturing standards and efficiency becoming more of a global standard, the lines are beginning to become blurred.
The rest of the world Toyota trucks were solid axle, diesel, crew cab, dead simple. America got IFS, AC, power windows and locks. Completely different purposes.
In the late 70's and early 80s, there was no difference between the 'Pickup' and the 'Hilux'....The Hilux that Top Gear destroyed was a truck that could have been bought in America.
Now, with the engineering and manufacturing standards and efficiency becoming more of a global standard, the lines are beginning to become blurred.
Clutch
<---Pass
Fa sha the market is demanding diesels, not sure if the EPA is going to allow it in the near future. But with the current slash and burn administration...even the future of the EPA is in question. Which is a mixed bag for me...would love fuel efficient cheap diesel (which doesn't exist)...but don't want polluted air and water either.