Difference in Range between Foreign Market Diesels and US Market Petrol Models

[Joash]

I see a lot of discussion on the Expedition Portal re. diesel engined Land Cruisers and Hilux trucks etc. and many people wishing they could buy the foreign market versions here in the US.

How much of a difference in maximum range are we talking on a single tank of fuel between the diesels available abroad and the gas engined versions available here?

In real life, how much does this matter? i.e. have you been in situations where the next fuel stop is too far away to reach on a single tank?

 

[Scott Brady]

It can be anywhere from 20-40% from the same tank volume. It makes a huge difference.

Our LJ78 can get 26mpg in many conditions. It is the same size as an FZJ80, which will get 11-12 with the same modifications. A diesel 80 series will get 18-20 mpg.

 

[Joash]

I'm under the impression that the diesels don't meet US emissions standards, particularly California. Is this true?

What is the big difference between US and say EU emissions standards? Whenever I talk to Europeans, they say their standards are quite strict.

 

[Containerized]

Joash - I'd say that's untrue. Plenty of European diesels meet US standards, but the opposite is often not true. Some of the toughest standards in the world are in Japan - there are only two diesel engines in the world that meet the strict requirements to operate within Tokyo's central districts. The big differences come down to two factors:

1) European diesels generally require very low sulfur content, much lower than is usually available in the U.S. This is why some fantastic European engines (like the 2005 Touareg V10 TDI) were pulled from the US market and re-engineered to take crappy American diesel fuel.

2) European emissions are based on CO2 rather than particulate emissions. Many of the newest engines are extremely low particulate emissions as well as extremely low CO2 emissions. But engines like the Landcruiser 70 TX's 3.0TD would not pass modern tests in the U.S., Europe, or Asia.

I don't know of any stock off-road vehicle with a longer range than a factory-equipped dual-tank 70 Series. Particularly the five-door wagon with the automatic simply sips fuel (and weighs less than the Troopy).

 

[Joash]

It's a shame that these longer range vehicles are not available here.

 

[Clutch]

I don't know of any stock off-road vehicle with a longer range than a factory-equipped dual-tank 70 Series. Particularly the five-door wagon with the automatic simply sips fuel (and weighs less than the Troopy).

Containerized,

What is the range of one of those?

 

[1leglance]

Besides the fun factor or longer range there is a secondary cost savings when you don't have to pay much higher fuel prices in very remote places.
Not to mention the pleasure of buying fuel out of barrels or jugs in Baja, been there, done that and the worry that goes with it is no fun.

 

[Martinjmpr]

A couple of other things to consider when doing this calculation:

1. Vehicles destined for less developed countries often come with bigger fuel tanks because in the places where those vehicles are sold, gas stations are not as common as they are in the developed world. So the difference in range is not just due to the different engine, it's also due to the bigger tank. For example, the petol-powered, V8 Prado I had in Kuwait (basically the same thing as the Lexus GX-470) had two gas tanks with a total of 200 liters (almost 50 gallons) of fuel, whereas the US market version has maybe a 20-25 gallon tank (not sure.) I don't know where the extra gas tank on the Prado was but my guess is that it was under the rear of the body, because the spare tire on the Prado is on the back door, while the spare on the GX sits under the body.

2. More range is desirable because it keeps you from having to divert from your planned itinerary to fuel up, and it keeps you from having to carry extra fuel in cans, which is problematic in terms of storage (uses up space that could be better used for essentials), center-of-gravity (if your gas cans are mounted on the roof they raise the CG) and safety (issues with fire hazards, spills, etc.)

The 3rd gen 4runner/1st gen Tacoma gets a lot of love here on ExPo, but having owned both (an '04 Taco and a '99 4runner) I would say the bigges achilles heel of both vehicles is the stingy gas tank (18.5 gallons) combined with lackluster MPG (around 16-19 depending on how it's equipped and loaded) which gives you a "safe" range of well under the 400 miles I consider to be "adequate."

 

[Clutch]

Besides the fun factor or longer range there is a secondary cost savings when you don't have to pay much higher fuel prices in very remote places.
Not to mention the pleasure of buying fuel out of barrels or jugs in Baja, been there, done that and the worry that goes with it is no fun.

Diesel can be scarce down there though.

Rule of thumb in Baja, never past a fuel stop.

 

[Joash]

Supposedly all the diesel in the US is ultra low sulfur.

A second full fuel tank in a place where you don't need it would add weight and detract from fuel economy itself.

Joash - I'd say that's untrue. Plenty of European diesels meet US standards, but the opposite is often not true. Some of the toughest standards in the world are in Japan - there are only two diesel engines in the world that meet the strict requirements to operate within Tokyo's central districts. The big differences come down to two factors:

1) European diesels generally require very low sulfur content, much lower than is usually available in the U.S. This is why some fantastic European engines (like the 2005 Touareg V10 TDI) were pulled from the US market and re-engineered to take crappy American diesel fuel.

2) European emissions are based on CO2 rather than particulate emissions. Many of the newest engines are extremely low particulate emissions as well as extremely low CO2 emissions. But engines like the Landcruiser 70 TX's 3.0TD would not pass modern tests in the U.S., Europe, or Asia.

I don't know of any stock off-road vehicle with a longer range than a factory-equipped dual-tank 70 Series. Particularly the five-door wagon with the automatic simply sips fuel (and weighs less than the Troopy).

 

[Mrknowitall]

1) European diesels generally require very low sulfur content, much lower than is usually available in the U.S.

I wouldn't say that's the case today- our ULSD with no more than <15ppm sulfer is clean enough for anything. Today however, Euro 5 vehicles don't directly meet our T2B5 NOx requirements. The V10 Tuareg went away because it was stupidly expensive and the V8 that repaced it made almost as much power.

2) European emissions are based on CO2 rather than particulate emissions. Many of the newest engines are extremely low particulate emissions as well as extremely low CO2 emissions. But engines like the Landcruiser 70 TX's 3.0TD would not pass modern tests in the U.S., Europe, or Asia.

I didn't know the 70 was available with the KD motor. What market is that for? All I've ever seen are the VD, HZ and GR engines.

I don't know of any stock off-road vehicle with a longer range than a factory-equipped dual-tank 70 Series. Particularly the five-door wagon with the automatic simply sips fuel (and weighs less than the Troopy).

The only thing I could think of would be be a Prado with the factory rear tank.

Sadly, here in America, the cost of getting a diesel is just hard to recover, unless you're into Full-size HD pickup territory. Getting a bigger or auxillary tank is usually the most cost effective way for us to get more range w/o carrying tons of fuel cans. Especially if your oversize tires don't fit in the stock spare tire location anyway, a rear tank presents itself.

 

[Martinjmpr]

The Prado I had in Kuwait had an on-board computer and on a full tank it showed a range of 1200km (720 miles.) Of course, with nearly 50 gallons of gas that only works out to 14.4 MPG, but given that this particular Prado was a petrol V8 (4.7) that makes sense.

It's worth noting that of all the countries I've been to outside the US and Canada, Kuwait is the only one where petrol vehicles are more common than diesels, but then again, Kuwait is awash in oil and gasoline is crazy cheap there.

 

[Containerized]

I didn't know the 70 was available with the KD motor. What market is that for? All I've ever seen are the VD, HZ and GR engines.

Available and common once you're inland in East Africa. Almost all the UNOPS vehicles in Sudan and South Sudan are this configuration, along with a fair portion of the 70's in northern Uganda and DRC.

The Hiace Super Custom TXD uses the same engine and is 4WD (but in a van configuration). Also available with a factory rear locker (though a very rare option).

 

[Mrknowitall]

The Hiace Super Custom TXD uses the same engine and is 4WD (but in a van configuration). Also available with a factory rear locker (though a very rare option).

Wow- that Hiace would make a sweet touring rig- keep everything enclosed, just needs some ground clearance.

 

[Clutch]

Wow- that Hiace would make a sweet touring rig- keep everything enclosed, just needs some ground clearance.

Not the forward control HiAce, but this version would work for me.

Comes in short and long wheel base.

http://www.offroad-nestle.de/en/offroad/new-car-sector/hiace4x4kurz0.html





4WD Dyna would be pretty cool.

http://www.autotrader.co.nz/used-cars-for-sale/toyota-dyna/909611