Displacement copy?

[Pskhaat]

Jeep had the 4.2 I6 (258). Toyota's 2F is 4.2L I6.

Jeep went 4.0 I6, Toyota destroked and went 4.0 I6.

Toyota breaks ranks with the 4.5 I6, but then:

Jeep introduces the 4.7 V8. Toyota puts in a 4.7 V8.

Jeep goes 5.7 V8. Toyota puts in a 5.7 V8.

Hmmmmm........

 

[Mlachica]

haha, good observation.

According to the pattern it's toyota's turn to revolutionize, hopefully it's with a diesel.

Somebody told me that toyota has plans to put in a catepilar diesel - is this true?

 

[Pskhaat]

Somebody told me that toyota has plans to put in a catepilar diesel - is this true?

Considering their group relationship with Hino, I'd be suprised. But I'd take anything out-of-the-box in terms of a diesel...

 

[adventureduo]

hahhaha good observation is right.

 

[Brian894x4]

haha, good observation.

According to the pattern it's toyota's turn to revolutionize, hopefully it's with a diesel.

Somebody told me that toyota has plans to put in a catepilar diesel - is this true?

I don't have any idea, but Toyota has definately split its design and sourcing of parts among it's major markets. Every market, including North America gets most of it's parts from different sources, than the Asian, South American, South African markets, for example.

I wouldn't be super surprised if Toyota sourced an American diesel for its North American market. If they used Catapiller for all of its markets, I'd be surprised.

 

[locrwln]

I don't think Cat wants to get into the small diesel market. At least that is what I have been hearing on the other diesel bb's I go to. Too much EPA stuff to worry about. They are having too much fun with the OTR trucks meeting all of the new and upcoming regulations. On the other hand, you just never know.

Jack

 

[DaveInDenver]

I don't have any idea, but Toyota has definately split its design and sourcing of parts among it's major markets. Every market, including North America gets most of it's parts from different sources, than the Asian, South American, South African markets, for example.

I wouldn't be super surprised if Toyota sourced an American diesel for its North American market. If they used Catapiller for all of its markets, I'd be surprised.

Toyota likes to move to a regional source in all its markets, but generally that means buying or building a local plant. Other than exports from Japan (notably Cruisers), most of the local Toyotas people get are from a plant that is geographically close. IOW, a Toyota you get in Europe is probably made in Europe, a car in Asia is made in Asia. They build cars in 26 countries now and market them in 170.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/about_toyota/manufacturing/worldwide.html

My guess is if Toyota offers a small diesel, say in a Tacoma, it would be a US-made D4D. I don't think there a lot of precedence for Toyota using a completely non-Toyota engine. They do use Allison and Eaton transmissions in Hino trucks, but the engines are all Hino. They did use Mercedes diesels in the Bandeirante. Are there any other times Toyota has used someone else's engine? OK, forgetting that the F engines are Chevy copies...

 

[cruiser guy]

Jeep had the 4.2 I6 (258). Toyota's 2F is 4.2L I6.

Jeep went 4.0 I6, Toyota destroked and went 4.0 I6.

Toyota breaks ranks with the 4.5 I6, but then:

Jeep introduces the 4.7 V8. Toyota puts in a 4.7 V8.

Jeep goes 5.7 V8. Toyota puts in a 5.7 V8.

Hmmmmm........

Well if Toyota is going to continue to follow Jeep's "lead" with their diesel Cherokee then I guess we should once again see a Toyota Land Cruiser DIESEL!! I can hardly wait! :wings:

 

[calamaridog]

The Toyota 4.7L V8 was introduced in 1998, before the Chrysler 4.7L V8. It is based upon the 1UZ-FE 4.0 V8 introduced in 1989. The reason Toyota went with the 4.7L displacement is that was the largest they could build on the existing equipment used to produce the 4.0 V8.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Toyota was putting in 6cyl before Jeep. The first jeep 6's were V6 crossfire’s from GM.

If you want to say Toyota was copying then it was copying GM more so then Jeep. The FJ was contracted by the US government when the US occupied Japan after WWII. Just never got fully off the ground while the US was there but they were already hedging on it and started building them. GM helped get Toyota back on its feet including tooling. That’s why the wheels are the same 6 lug pattern as GM. The I6 was based off the Chevy 252.


Now jeep has always bought where they could get the best prices. They were running GM electrics and some motors all through the 80's. Before that they were AMC power plants.

We won't even get into the whole Ford Jeep thing in WWII but one of the most sought after Jeeps was built by Ford.


The last I heard with diesels for North America was Isuzu power plants.

 

[Pskhaat]

If you want to say Toyota was copying...

Ahh, you guys take me way too seriously! :REOutArchery02: It's not about who's first really or who's engine is better (because we all know the answer to that one ), just interesting that the displacements seem to be so similar.

IIRC the 4.7 Jeep was introduced in 99 whilst the 4.7 Toy as mentioned in 98. Pretty close.

As I understand it the 94/84mm bore/stroke is about the maximum one can get out of the UZ block, which if the 2UZ-FE wasn't one of the tightest engines made, I'd be critical about that.

 

[BigAl]

Toyota was putting in 6cyl before Jeep. The first jeep 6's were V6 crossfire’s from GM.

If you want to say Toyota was copying then it was copying GM more so then Jeep. The FJ was contracted by the US government when the US occupied Japan after WWII. Just never got fully off the ground while the US was there but they were already hedging on it and started building them. GM helped get Toyota back on its feet including tooling. That’s why the wheels are the same 6 lug pattern as GM. The I6 was based off the Chevy 252.


Now jeep has always bought where they could get the best prices. They were running GM electrics and some motors all through the 80's. Before that they were AMC power plants.

We won't even get into the whole Ford Jeep thing in WWII but one of the most sought after Jeeps was built by Ford.


The last I heard with diesels for North America was Isuzu power plants.

Don't go screwing up a good toyota bashing thread with facts Jeeps rule:sport_box

 

[calamaridog]

IIRC the 4.7 Jeep was introduced in 99 whilst the 4.7 Toy as mentioned in 98. Pretty close.

As I understand it the 94/84mm bore/stroke is about the maximum one can get out of the UZ block, which if the 2UZ-FE wasn't one of the tightest engines made, I'd be critical about that.

I'd argue that essentially, the UZ motors were designed in the late 1980's while the Chrysler motor was designed in the mid 1990's and that is not close at all.

You'll also notice that the 4.7 Chrysler motor was never made larger either. Both motors are very good, I believe. I'd consider a Toyota or Jeep product using either engine family. Toyota modernized their 4.7 several years ago, and now Chrysler is modernizing theirs. I believe this is a commitment that shows both motors will continue to be offered for some time to come. And for all you haters out there, the Chrysler 4.7 has a timing chain, unlike the Toyota.

We have the 3.7 in our Liberty which is from the same engine family as the 4.7 Chrysler. I think this is a good motor and I was sorry it was not offered in the new Wrangler instead of the 3.8 minivan motor which is from a 20 y.o. engine family. I continue to fail to understand the thinking here in not offering the best and most modern "truck" V6 in the new Wrangler.