DIY Third Gen Ford Van 4x4 Conversion Questions

[JakeC]

I've been scouring the internet for images of the front axle set up on the late 1980's 4x4 vans from companies such as Quadravan, Pathfinder, or Quigley.
I've also contacted a couple of conversion companies and have received quotes from $8,000 to $18,000.

I've got a 1989 Ford Club Wagon XLT 138"

• 351w, Fresh Tune Up
• New Radiator, Heavy Duty Transmission Cooler, Water Pump, Thermostat
• Gear Vendor Overdrive mated to the c6
• Sportsmobile Pop Top

Recently, I have stumbled into this desire to convert the van to 4x4. Do I need 4x4? Probably not. Would it be cheaper to stray away from 4x4? Definitely. But I like to beat things to death when researching them. I have joined a couple of 4x4 van group pages on Facebook to learn what I can learn from them and to discover the different ways that people have done it.

What I've learned is that a leaf sprung front end with a solid axle should be the simplest swap. -Not as simple as finding the front end from a Quadravan or Pathfinder- but the simplest DIY method. I've also seen examples of people using Dana 50 TTB's from Heavy Duty Ford Trucks with coils.

I've discovered this website that I am sure many of you have seen http://www.glinx.com/~sbest/4vanfaq.htm and I've read through it a couple of times. Some of the information is dated in terms of which axles fit the vans most easily. I've also found an old Quadravan manual from 1978 per one of the moderators/admin/creator of the Facebook group. The manual has the entire drive line diagrammed out, which I thought would be a good reference when it comes to fabricating brackets and such. It also has helped me better understand the layout of the front end components.



Is there a benefit to coils over leafs as I've noticed Ujor does leaf conversions on modern vans.
Is there a difference between the dated 4x4 conversions that would have been done in the late 80's? Components that worked vs components that didn't?

I am guessing that I will have to try and get the Gear Vendor to work with a married transfer case to my current c6 or upgrade (downgrade?) to an E40D. -or even run a divorced case, but that's a whole lot to stuff under the 138" wheelbase.

How have you guys done it?
What are the correct steps to take?
Can I break the process down into multiple steps?


Another Option:
I've got a buddy who has offered me up his Quigley for a very reasonable price. It is an extended van and has the same 351w and c6 as my current van. It needs a bit of mechanical work. The pop top also will not fit the extended or will have to be modified. Will I have trouble with parts for an older Quigley?

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Binky]

The pop top on my extended 92 Econoline came from a 78 Dodge D200 so anything is possible!
If I were to build another, I'd probably not go 4WD. Just a lift and a diff.
Good Luck and have fun!

John

 

[JakeC]

The pop top on my extended 92 Econoline came from a 78 Dodge D200 so anything is possible!
If I were to build another, I'd probably not go 4WD. Just a lift and a diff.
Good Luck and have fun!

John

I've also thought about that, in all honesty. More aggressive tires and a rear locker; which I know lockers can make a world of difference in comparison to open differentials.

Why would you opt to not go 4x4, curiously?

 

[Binky]

Maintenance, weight, complexity, mileage. Every one seems 'unique'...
Weld-Tec has some cool lifts for the 2wd front end and most diffs are 'open' anyway, so even w/ 4wd, you still really only have 2 wheels being driven.
A locking or limited-slip gives you 2wd, just from the same axle. A true locking diff is nice when you are on low-speed trails because it's instant on, so to speak. A tru-trac/torsen-style diff requires some slippage to be happening before it engages, but they are pretty seamless and always functioning. So, if one tire starts spinning on a snowy/muddy road, power transmits instantly to the other wheel before you even notice slippage. I have Quiafe diffs in my Saabs and love them!
I'm not rock crawling or mudbogging with it, so Binky is probably overkill for 98% of the miles I put on it!

John

 

[JakeC]

Maintenance, weight, complexity, mileage. Every one seems 'unique'...
Weld-Tec has some cool lifts for the 2wd front end and most diffs are 'open' anyway, so even w/ 4wd, you still really only have 2 wheels being driven.
A locking or limited-slip gives you 2wd, just from the same axle. A true locking diff is nice when you are on low-speed trails because it's instant on, so to speak. A tru-trac/torsen-style diff requires some slippage to be happening before it engages, but they are pretty seamless and always functioning. So, if one tire starts spinning on a snowy/muddy road, power transmits instantly to the other wheel before you even notice slippage. I have Quiafe diffs in my Saabs and love them!
I'm not rock crawling or mudbogging with it, so Binky is probably overkill for 98% of the miles I put on it!

John

Well said! You make a lot of good points! A small lift, better tires, and a locker might be much much simpler and substantially cheaper.

I think the biggest difficulty I'm facing currently is tackling snow on the road. Right now, the van is awful in the snow. BUT it is also empty and the tires aren't all-terrain or all-season.

 

[Deshet]

I have had this for some time. I will be getting up an going soon. They made them in 4x4 also. I have seen guys use F350 and Bronco drivelines. This is the smallest Van that I have owned that I can fully standup in with 6'8" of head room. Also a fuel injected 351 is a very good engine.

Good luck with everything. Please keep us posted regardless of which direction you choose.

Thanks,

 

[JakeC]

I have had this for some time. I will be getting up an going soon. They made them in 4x4 also. I have seen guys use F350 and Bronco drivelines. This is the smallest Van that I have owned that I can fully standup in with 6'8" of head room. Also a fuel injected 351 is a very good engine.

Good luck with everything. Please keep us posted regardless of which direction you choose.

Thanks,

For a long time, I was drawn to the Falcon conversions! If you haven't, check out Boomer.

Boomer the Quadravan 4x4 Camper

Boomer the Quadravan 4x4 Camper - Full Build Thread For those of you who have been here awhile you'll recognize Boomer. For those who don't, this is it... Boomer, The Beginning. Chapter 1 So I was driving down a road up north where we used to live and there was this van for sale. It looked...

expeditionportal.com

 

[Mwilliamshs]

...Is there a benefit to coils over leafs as I've noticed Ujor does leaf conversions on modern vans.

Coils typically ride better. Leaves can be made to ride quite well but coils have no internal friction and move more freely. Coils are easier to swap out when testing spring rates. Coils weigh less than leaves but they need linkage so the weight thing is a wash.

Is there a difference between the dated 4x4 conversions that would have been done in the late 80's?

A difference between an 80s conversion and...what?

Components that worked vs components that didn't?

The only things that didn't work are the things no longer done like the V-drive transfercases, etc. BUT If a part gets used on a big scale, for a long time, it is probably a good part. Example: NP205 transfercase. There's nothing like it on the market nowadays so some people would have you believe it's no good. It's heavy and new cases are light. It's gear-driven and new cases are chain drive. It uses gear oil and new cases use ATF. So it must be old junk. Wrong. It's strong, durable, reliable, simple, and rebuildable. Anything can be done with enough resources. My point is probably lost in there so here it is: be more specific. Ask about specific components.


I am guessing that I will have to try and get the Gear Vendor to work with a married transfer case to my current c6 or upgrade (downgrade?) to an E40D. -or even run a divorced case, but that's a whole lot to stuff under the 138" wheelbase.

138" is a lot of room to fit whatever you want. Jeeps are often under 100" (over 3 feet shorter) and they fit it all, so you can too. You don't have to have a Gear Vendor so you certainly don't have to get it to work with anything else. An E4OD is not a downgrade. It's mostly the same as a C6, with a few upgrades like a locking torque converter, bearings where the C6 has bushings, and overdrive. A 4wd E4OD with married transfercase is much more common, compact, and adaptable than a C6, GV, and divorced case or a C6, married case, and GV. Feeding a divorced transfer case from a GV is a goofy arrangement and would result in lots of lash in the driveline and make for LONG transfercase shift linkage. GVs are big bucks. Sell yours and it'll pay for an E4OD and transfercase on its own, probably.

Can I break the process down into multiple steps? Definitely.

Another Option:
I've got a buddy who has offered me up his Quigley for a very reasonable price. It is an extended van and has the same 351w and c6 as my current van. It needs a bit of mechanical work. The pop top also will not fit the extended or will have to be modified. Will I have trouble with parts for an older Quigley?

The poptop can be fitted. It's been done. Just a little trimming and fiberglass work. Anything Quigley could do in the 80s can be done today, faster, better, cheaper. Most of their parts are just regular old Ford stuff.

 

[JakeC]

Thanks for replying! It's definitely a lot to think about. I wouldn't mind losing the GV because I can definitely sell it and make up some of the money for the conversion -or purchase of the Quigley.

Is there a difference between the dated 4x4 conversions that would have been done in the late 80's?
A difference between an 80s conversion and...what?

Can I break the process down into multiple steps?
Definitely.

When I was asking about the differences I definitely dropped the ball. Ha! I meant between the different conversion companies from the 80's and I guess that question should have been combined with: "Components that worked vs components that didn't".

I suppose when breaking it down, I could tackle the solid axle before tackling the rest of the 4wd system.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I meant between the different conversion companies from the 80's...

Yes, there are differences. Some used leaves, some used coils. Some had no trackbar, some had 2. Some were 5 lug, some 8 lug, some 44s, some 60s. Lots and lots of differences.

I suppose when breaking it down, I could tackle the solid axle before tackling the rest of the 4wd system.

Definitely. Could also swap transmissions and transfercase first, since after that the rear driveshaft won't change length. That'll allow you to drive the van until you're ready to remove the front axle. The front end is the most work.

Nice benefit of 3rd Gens vs 4th is the rear fuel tank, don't have to modify it to fit a transfercase.

 

[gscott]

I wish I knew more details about swapping a D60 and coils from a '05 and later Superduty pickup. I think that would be a great way to go. I picked up a Quadravan so I can use the brackets, radius arms and the custom length HD D44. You can also google up the Solid Axle Swaps people do on Broncos, to get rid of the TTB. Lots of that out there. The conversion would be similar.

I still think the best info is George Gall's youtube video. It's a virtual walk through of a conversion using Quadravan bits.

 

[gscott]

In case anyone cares, here's a feller doing a '05 up SuperDuty conversion on a Gen 3 Econoline (and Cummins swap) and is documenting it on YouTube for your viewing pleasure!

 

[aTycef]

Did you ever do anything with your build above? This is my facebook group. Lots of help here.

DIY 4x4 Van Conversions, Restorations, Parts & VanLife Projects | Facebook

This group is for the 4x4 van conversion DIYer. Ford, Chevy, Dodge and all the rest. What this means is doing as much as you can build and Fab from scratch. BUT not limited to that. If a person buys...

www.facebook.com