Do you feel the need to be unarmed and defensless while camping?

[toylandcruiser]

In all my camping experiences, I have never really felt the need to have a firearm with me for the sake of protection due to concern for our safety, however, we have had guns with us on certain trips where the opportunity to shoot clays or general target practice on the trail would be an option for anyone interested.

I will say though, that I am definitely a supporter of our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms, and would not hesitate to carry if I felt the need. I kind of look at it this way; our country has an arsenal of nuclear weapons that acts as a deterrent to other countries who might otherwise try to take advantage of us if we didn't have them. I think the same is true for law abiding citizens who exercise their right to bear arms. A criminal might be less likely to do something if he thought there were armed citizens in the group or facility thus being a deterrent (exception being a hardened criminal who either doesn't care, or that are desperate, in which case it wouldn't matter either way).

But as a former LEO, I understand the concern that current LEO's have with PC's who are licensed to conceal carry, and who, with good intentions get in harms way trying to assist in a potentially dangerous situation. It would just make the officers job that much more difficult. So it is imperative that a person considering a CCW, thoroughly research the ramifications of that before they take that step.

A cops "right" to carry doesn't out way my right. As a cops life isn't more important than any other citizen. I don't care if it makes a cops job "more difficult" If I see a situation and I'm there, I'll do something.

 

[Kevin108]

The biggest problem with the numbers people see is that they don't know the facts of how those numbers are derived.

If the news tells you the number of "gun deaths," it includes suicides and the bad guys who were killed in the act. 2/3 of gun deaths are suicide. Most all other gun violence is gang/drug related.

When you understand that, you're starting to see the numbers more clearly.

There's also an inconvenient truth about who is actually committing gun crimes that today's PC culture won't discuss. The information is readily available in the FBI Uniform Crime Report.

It is not law-abiding gun owners or CHP holders who cause problems.

 

[JWP58]

There is a watershed of difference between an ar15 and a belt fed machine gun, javelin missile system, mortar tube, mk19 auto grenade launcher, dillon m134 gatling gun etc etc etc....those are military weapons.

There is nothing unreasonable about someone owning an individual rifle of any length. Every policeman in america has one -usually fully automatic- in their patrol car. Its just not unreasonable.

Your comments regarding SAFE i agree with it. I stand by what i said earlier. If the police can own it, every day citizens should be able to.

False. Most police have plain ol ar15's. The only full autos are old as hell m16's, aND most are oUT of service. Mp5's? Maybe, but those are select burst. Tac teams may be different, but regular patrol doesn't.

 

[smlobx]

A firearm will not escalate a situation. A person will. An armed and lawful person is much less likely to start or take part in a conflict because he/she knows, as you pointed out, that the consequences could be fatal. Criminals are much less likely to target an armed person or household because they don't want to get shot. Lawful firearm ownership carries a whole bunch of responsibility for sure, but it also makes people a whole lot more inclined to avoid violence or conflict of any sort, which I would consider a good thing.

As for a street officer's comfort level when dealing with armed citizens...that's the thing about individual rights, they are not to be trumped by the state. The police force of New Orleans got a whole bunch of crap thrown their way for proactively confiscating firearms from law-abiding citizens during and after Hurricane Katrina. The average police officer has a very tough and dangerous job to do; but his/her desire for safety doesn't supercede a citizen's right to self-defense. And at the end of the day, a police officer is a human being just like the rest of us, capable of evil and criminal acts. The 2nd Amendment was written to protect the American citizenry from such failings and overreach by the state more than anything else.



There you go again stereotyping us "tigger-happy" Americans. You have your very unique view on this topic, while admittedly you see nothing of value in the viewpoints contrarian to your own. There are a plethora of world views held by American citizens. But one concept that unites us all is that there is a legal document which guarantees our legal rights, and it is only by a thorough system of checks and balances that those rights can be revised or changed. Though there are many other democracies in the world, there are very few which have such a formal and vetted system for safeguarding individual rights.

Forget gun rights for a moment and go read up on any number of instances in Canada, France, UK, and Sweden where individuals have been punished for simply expressing opinions...In that regard, I think it is very fair to say that many Americans have a "world view" that is different from those views held by the citizens of most other countries.

Dalko I agree with your comments 100%.
As for the OP I think you would be surprised at the percentage of people who conceal carry, most every day, and the vast majority of them will never use their weapon but as was said previously it is a right, just like the freedom of speech.

 

[WeLikeCamping]

I stopped after page 8. The OP makes an over-the-top question, with built-in emotional triggers and implied negativity, knowing that his question is written to cause disagreement, then follows that up with more veiled offensive comments meant to trigger negative emotional responses, and complains about people getting "butt-hurt" when they do challenge him. His question is invalid as written and unworthy of debate - it will never be resolved. He exclaims that he is only trying to make a "discussion", and provides more veiled offensive rhetoric, then stomps his little foot and leaves for a bit when people don't generally agree with his flawed premise. The OP knew/knows exactly what he is doing and in my humble opinion, is simply trolling, not interested in any real discussion unless you agree with him, and he is the one getting "butt-hurt". The fact that he left, then returned to fan the flame more tells me all I need to know.

For those reasons, I refuse to be baited. Enjoy your little "discussion".

 

[Rider192]

Awe jeez, not this argument again. This forum gets further and further away from it's original intention more and more each day. Go find another forum to divide the world, and leave this one to us travelers.

 

[rayra]

All very interesting, though somewhat suspect. This only addresses concealed carry....what percentage of gun carriers are permit holders?

I can see where most cc permit holders are not problematic....after all they had to go through some kind of process to obtain that permit ( I will admit I do not know what is involved here...but one assumes some kind of vetting is done). The thread didn't specify cc though. In fact, I would assume open carry in the boonies.

Anyway, the thread has moved so far away from the initial post that we are having a different conversation.


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Yes, now we are having a PROPER conversation about the underlying facts and true context of arms use and ownership and not that preening jingoistic pile of excrement that you first trolled with. You served up the typical 'cowboy America with blood running in the streets' dialectic, with that 'world citizen' crapola and that tired old saw about wider travel = enlightenment.

And there's nothing 'highly suspect'. The links to the actual source data have been provided, by myself and others. Your cartoonish suppositions and assertions have been shown to be unfounded. 220 MILLION firearms sold since 1998, yet the homicide and violent crime rates have declined substantialyl over the last 20yrs. It's right there in the FBI Crime data. Your entire narrative is false garbage.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Interestingly enough the ones I called out asking them to post actual data supporting their argement have failed to even respond.

 

[michel]

If the world is so dangerous as you say (and I am not saying it isn't ) then why is this need to carry something that only Americans seem to feel? And that in America! In Other places this need doesn't seem to be felt....I base that on never having met anyone outside of the US who has ever expressed to me the feeling that they wished they were armed. ( speaking of traveling....camping). Has the US become so dangerous that even when we are away from population centers, we still are concerned enough that we must carry a firearm?
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I can touch on this a bit. Not an American, Canadian - peace loving, gun hating Canada...(so some think)
So it started when I was a kid in rural Quebec. Camping back then was really hunting or fishing, so we where never in the woods without firearms obviously. It was not thinking 'should I carry?' it just was, you pack the guns the same as the stove and sleeping bags. Many years go by, and now, nobody has a firearm when in the woods. Why? 2-3 generations of people have never had a firearm in their household. Basically, they have never had the comfort of a firearm and have no idea what if feels like, so being without is no big deal. That is simply called ignorance in the true sense of the word.

Case in point, a good friend is the guy they drop in the deep woods via helicopter for him to scope out where to build login roads as well as maintenance and what not. His vest/kit of course has a proper long gun that he hates to carry (because it's heavy) but sure as heck never goes without. Other friends that actually live way off the beaten path wont go more than a couple hundred yards without a rifle, the quads all have rifles mounted (they also carry bear spray fyi). So basically, anybody here with real experience, goes prepared. Sure, lots of city people go camping, but not really deep woods location, parks and such.

In my case, I do camp in bear and cougar country (mountains of bc) without, and it freaking sucks, akin to feeling naked and I hate it. (but I don't hate it as much as being logged in a gov computer as having a firearm on my premises, so I make due).
So my take on it is simply most don't know better, and ignorance is bliss (until that mother ******ng grizzly clears it's throat by your damn tent at 4am hehe).

 

[calicamper]

If your using a tent I'd say your still not really out there.. I grew up doing big back country stuff typically a week to two week trips. We packed a two big tarps. We rarely ever packed the .25 noise maker. Griz country we would pack bear spray. We started packing the .25 when the hippies in the late 60's would raid your camp while your out fishing. Couple of shots and they left your camp alone. Today thats a non issue.

 

[michel]

I do like sleeping without the tent as we'll, therma rest on the ground. I got really simple for a while or lazy, hard to tell the difference some days.

One thing I do notice is up here I've never once worried about people, just wildlife. Down south I do worry more about people. I think it's the population density, and the really freaky story I read about weird hippies running naked through your campsite on the freaky tread

 

[calicamper]

I do like sleeping without the tent as we'll, therma rest on the ground. I got really simple for a while or lazy, hard to tell the difference some days.

One thing I do notice is up here I've never once worried about people, just wildlife. Down south I do worry more about people. I think it's the population density, and the really freaky story I read about weird hippies running naked through your campsite on the freaky tread

At least you can tell they arent packing an AR-15 or much of anything else.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

If your using a tent I'd say your still not really out there.

????? Maybe that applies to you, but not most people.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

If your using a tent I'd say your still not really out there.. I grew up doing big back country stuff typically a week to two week trips. We packed a two big tarps. We rarely ever packed the .25 noise maker. Griz country we would pack bear spray. We started packing the .25 when the hippies in the late 60's would raid your camp while your out fishing. Couple of shots and they left your camp alone. Today thats a non issue.

With our dry climate ants and several species of biting spiders are an issue when camping, otherwise I would prefer to sleep under a silnylon tarp, a few years ago I woke up to the feeling of red ants biting me while sleeping in a bivy and had to change my methods.

 

[KMG]

I just finished reading all 35 pages and I'd like to ask the anti-gun group a simple question. If I come across someone threatening you with lethal harm should I come to your aid with my legally owned, registered, and permitted weapon or call 911 and quickly remove myself and my weapon from the crime scene to de-escalate the threat to you? Before you answer I want to make sure you understand by my helping I'm increasing my odds of bodily harm. I'm willing to be a stand up guy and come to your aid but I don't want to offend you and increase my risks. I don't need any long answers. Just read 35 pages of them. Just a simple yes or no. Thanks