Zatara
Adventurer
Do you ever ride as a passenger in someone elses vehicle ?
Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping
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BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
hmmm...interesting, and kind of scary at the same time.
As I said, I tend to agree with the study and therefore will only have handguns in the house that are locked in a quick-access lockbox, because I don't think its a matter of if, its a matter of "when" they will play with a handgun.
The shotgun, for me seems different, maybe because its unloaded, maybe because, its out of reach. Honestly, maybe I need to take more precautions with it,now that my kids are older.
good read!
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
It was an analogy, you can't add after market airbags, but you can choose to drive a vehicle with airbags.
The point being, the risks we take in the other aspects we discuss here, FAR exceed the risks from violence while camping in the woods, yet there is far more discussion about what sort of gun to carry than there is off trying to convince ARB to make an aftermarket airbag systemThis is not a criticism, just an observation.
Just Fyi, Rando, this is how I took it..just an analogy/observation.
Its a good comparison, and you make a good point.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I do agree that a long gun is different. Just because of the size. I read something a few years ago about a comparison between ATV and Dirtbikes. Most parents think that ATV's are safer, because they have 4 wheels, etc. The reality is much different. ATV are statistically MUCH more dangerous than dirtbikes for kids. Why? Because a small child can climb on a full size ATV and drive it. And parents often let them. But children CANNOT ride a full-size dirtbike. They can only drive bikes made for them.
Same deal with a long gun. Less likely a child could even pick it up.
Still, I wouldn't leave a long gun unlocked with my family anywhere nearby. Which greatly reduces it's usefulness.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I had to Google that one. Interesting.
Yeah, apparently he never said that. But it is commonly used on the internet to ridicule. Does it speak to some people's propensity to believe anything to be true, no matter how ridiculous, if it supports their current views?
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
yup, I see where you're coming from, Rob. Why have something around that may as well be a baseball bat, with all the processes/steps required to bring it to bear?
Makes a handgun a pretty good choice, if you can be accurate with it, (which most people can)since there are lots of different products available to keep kids safe, while allowing it to be ready to use, quickly.
One thing I like, too, about handguns, like Dave mentioned, is that when you're in camp, you're not "the guy carrying around the shotgun" like some sort of michigan militia wannabe. You're fully legal carrying a gun on your hip,chest pack,fanny pack in most backcountry area's(becomes your home/house for the night, legally)
Also, one thing to consider, being a dad like me, is that likely you'll be carrying a child with you to safety, if the scenario is bad enough to require pulling a gun...that takes one hand/arm out of the picture as far as function goes.
With respect to gun use it complicates
-loading
-racking slide/closing cylinder (revolver)
-clearing jams
-manipulating weapon light/laser
-unloading
-application of safety
Something to consider. I'm good with my shotgun, but there's no way, other than the first shot, that I'd be able to manipulate my shotgun while holding a kid.
One thing handguns are good for too, with the advent of modern weaponlights is the ablity to have both your handgun and your
flashlight in one hand. Most are easily removable, too, so that
you can use the light without aiming the gun at a "non-threat"
Alright, back to work for me.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Yeah, handguns are not an option to me. IF I bought a gun, it would like be an 870 as recommended by an LEO friend. In the house, it would be locked in a safe. In the truck, it would be locked in a safe. In both cases, it wouldn't be readily available in times of crisis. On a hike, am I really going to walk through the woods with a shotgun over my shoulder? Not likely.
Can you really handle a handgun, one handed, that would have any hope of stopping a bear? I fired a S&W 500 once, not something I'd want to try one-handed. The other was a Glock 10mm. Not sure I'd want to try that either.
I was accurate at 75 feet, 12 out of 13, taking my time. Am I going to be accurate against a running bear? With fear, etc. in my veins? Not likely. It won't take long for a bear to cover 75 feet.
So we're back to the shotgun.
I was recently talking to a friend of mine who's a hunter. He said you aren't likely to stop a bear with a shotgun anyway. They have too much "Will to live". Unless you have slugs loaded, and take out it's shoulder blade, it'll just keep coming, and now it's REALLY mad. He has guns, and hunts, and said if he was attacked by a bear, he'd rather have pepper spray.
Can you really handle a handgun, one handed, that would have any hope of stopping a bear? I fired a S&W 500 once, not something I'd want to try one-handed. The other was a Glock 10mm. Not sure I'd want to try that either.
I was accurate at 75 feet, 12 out of 13, taking my time. Am I going to be accurate against a running bear? With fear, etc. in my veins? Not likely. It won't take long for a bear to cover 75 feet.
So we're back to the shotgun.
I was recently talking to a friend of mine who's a hunter. He said you aren't likely to stop a bear with a shotgun anyway. They have too much "Will to live". Unless you have slugs loaded, and take out it's shoulder blade, it'll just keep coming, and now it's REALLY mad. He has guns, and hunts, and said if he was attacked by a bear, he'd rather have pepper spray.
Zatara
Adventurer
I read several sites and tried to read snopes before posting but I can't get that site at work..
Where did your info come from ?
If it's not correct then I retract the statement.
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
Agreed, and Rob's a poopyhead.
[smacks Rob with a chain mail gauntlet and runs away]
Take that!!!
It was an analogy, you can't add after market airbags, but you can choose to drive a vehicle with airbags.
The point being, the risks we take in the other aspects we discuss here, FAR exceed the risks from violence while camping in the woods, yet there is far more discussion about what sort of gun to carry than there is off trying to convince ARB to make an aftermarket airbag system
I in no way felt criticized, and certainly understand the analogy. To be honest I do not feel the need to carry. Its just a choice I make, and it is a personal choice my brother and sister for example are uncomfortable around guns and would never carry. A gun is a tool, and you never know if you will need it and can make survival much easier in the back country. Now I think the odds of actually needing it are astronomically low and I hope I never need to use it, but its one more tool that's there if I need it.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud
There's some interesting ones in there. Considering many pro-gun people in America like to site this supposed Freud quote, they should be aware of the man they are considering to be an authority.
"America is a mistake, admittedly a gigantic mistake, but a mistake nevertheless. "
This one is very interesting:
"Perhaps the last cultural fad one could still argue against was Karl Marx. But Freud — or Rawls? To argue against such persons is to grant them a premise they spend all of their effort disproving: that reason is involved in their theories. " - Ayn Rand
"Doctor Freud not only used cocaine himself, but he also prescribed it to his patients. And then he drew his generalizations. Cocaine is a strong sexual arouser. That's why everything Freud invented — all those oedipuses, sphinxes and sphincters — is relevant only to a mental dimension of a patient, whose brain is turned to fried-eggs by cocaine. In such a state, one really has only one problem left — what to do first, to [Edited by Rob] his mother or to do away with his father. Of course, until his cocaine runs out. And in those times, there were no problems with supplies. But so long as your daily dose is less than three grams, you don't have to fear either the Oedipus complex, nor other things discovered by Freud. "
- Victor Pelevin
Umm... He may not of "said" it but....
From your post...
"In these other passages Freud associates retarded sexual and emotional development not with gun ownership, but with fear and loathing of weapons."
Sounds like he said it to me....
I carry a gun all the time. Part of getting dressed is determining which holster and which gun to wear. I have a light, stainless pistol for back packing, and keep a side folder AK w/flashlight in camp.
I honestly hope I never have to use any of my guns in defense of myself and others. I spent some time in combat and wasn't a fan. I also refuse to become a sheep and walk through life relying on those agencies (police, sheriff, etc) that are under no obligation to protect me. (per the supreme court.) If they don't have to protect me, then it is really up to me to protect myself. Situational awareness goes a really really long way, but something unexpected can always happen to even the most careful folks.
To me a gun is just another tool--like a lug wrench, high lift, etc.
Why would you go somewhere without taking all the tools you might need? I am sure lots of folks on here have a high lift jack that has been used very little. It is a dangerous design, but training and responsible use make it a valuable tool. IMHO, there is no difference.
.02
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Same reason I don't carry a banjo or a Snoopy Snow Cone Machine. I have no need for it. But, that's me. I respect anyone who needs to carry a gun to feel safe or a Snoopy Snow Cone Machine for that matter.
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