Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping
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pan7eraboyca
New member
Im actually surprised at the number of those that carry a gun while camping. I never even thought of it (not that I could for the most part anyway). I spent years backpacking in Alberta and South West BC and have run into my share of bears and having a gun was never a thought. Protection from other people? I didnt know there was that many muggers out climbing mountains. lol.
Having a family now and doing mostly car camping a gun is still not a thought. Ive never felt remotely threatened, ever. Had bears strolling through our site in Waterton last year but thats what they do.
Having a family now and doing mostly car camping a gun is still not a thought. Ive never felt remotely threatened, ever. Had bears strolling through our site in Waterton last year but thats what they do.
DarinM
Explorer
Looks at the banjo sitting by my desk here in my office and feels somehow judged harshly...
Danged anti-banjo lobby...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
No. It sounds like somebody said he said it. He never said it.
"This is not a statement that appears in any translation of any of Freud's works."
What he did say: "Woe to you, my Princess, when I come... you shall see who is the stronger, a gentle girl who doesn't eat enough or a big wild man who has cocaine in his body. "
Yeah, I don't have much respect for anything Freud said.
One of my best friends in an LEO in MI, and he's the one who introduced me to guns. When he first told me he carried everywhere he went, anytime WE were at an autocross or trackday, I was shocked. He took me to the range, and I got a little more comfortable. Most especially because of his skill, and when I saw how much better he was than everybody else. I believe in the idea that... If you draw a gun, now it's a gunfight. But I learned that he was better than just about anybody else we're likely to meet.
I've also gone shooting with some co-workers in Ohio.
However, if I saw somebody I didn't personally know in a campsite who was carrying, I would likely leave. Actually, I have already done that. While doing an east coast trip, we stopped at a campground, where there were a bunch of guys standing around a campfire with guns over their shoulders and drinking beer, so we left.
I very rarely open carry, and only in appropriate situations. For one, manners is about making others comfortable, for two, if a criminal knows I am armed, I will be the first one killed--probably shot in the back.
Also, what is the point of the stats that say that there are more gun accidents with kids in states that have more guns?
I could have told them that with no multimillion dollar study. Just like I can say with absolute certainty that there are more bear attacks in states that have more bears...
Also, what is the point of the stats that say that there are more gun accidents with kids in states that have more guns?
I could have told them that with no multimillion dollar study. Just like I can say with absolute certainty that there are more bear attacks in states that have more bears...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I know the conclusion of the stats are obvious. The point of bringing it up is that the oft-sited reason for carrying a weapon is for protection. In particular, many people say they want to protect their family. The stats bring it into stark reality that having a gun in one's home greatly increases the risk of death by accidental gunshot.
In 1999, 3385 children were killed by guns. 489 in the age group 0-14. According to Wiki, 20.2% of the American population is in this age group, or 56.8 million kids. So the death rate by gun is 0.86 deaths per 100,000 children. The referenced study shows that gun deaths in other countries (with presumably lower gun ownership) is 12 times lower, so presumably 0.07 deaths per 100,000. 448 kids per year could be saved if gun ownership were reduced. On average, only 2-3 people per year (not just kids!) die from bear attacks. That's only about 0.0001/100,000. So you've increased the chance of accidental shooting death by 0.79/100,000, in order to reduce the odds of a bear attack by 0.0001? I know this doesn't get into the discussion about human attacks but I don't even know where to begin with those numbers. I guess I could just trot out the obvious crime rates in the US vs. other countries.
I don't protect my family by having a gun. I protect them by not having a gun.
This is very interesting... this discussion has actually swung me back the other way. I will probably just stick to bear spray. And it works on people too.
http://www.adn.com/2008/04/20/381252/spray-proves-its-worth-in-bear.html
In 1999, 3385 children were killed by guns. 489 in the age group 0-14. According to Wiki, 20.2% of the American population is in this age group, or 56.8 million kids. So the death rate by gun is 0.86 deaths per 100,000 children. The referenced study shows that gun deaths in other countries (with presumably lower gun ownership) is 12 times lower, so presumably 0.07 deaths per 100,000. 448 kids per year could be saved if gun ownership were reduced. On average, only 2-3 people per year (not just kids!) die from bear attacks. That's only about 0.0001/100,000. So you've increased the chance of accidental shooting death by 0.79/100,000, in order to reduce the odds of a bear attack by 0.0001? I know this doesn't get into the discussion about human attacks but I don't even know where to begin with those numbers. I guess I could just trot out the obvious crime rates in the US vs. other countries.
I don't protect my family by having a gun. I protect them by not having a gun.
This is very interesting... this discussion has actually swung me back the other way. I will probably just stick to bear spray. And it works on people too.
http://www.adn.com/2008/04/20/381252/spray-proves-its-worth-in-bear.html
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Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
It was an analogy, you can't add after market airbags, but you can choose to drive a vehicle with airbags.
The point being, the risks we take in the other aspects we discuss here, FAR exceed the risks from violence while camping in the woods, yet there is far more discussion about what sort of gun to carry than there is off trying to convince ARB to make an aftermarket airbag system
I agree, with a small caveat: One tries to protect his family as well as he can while experiencing life with them. You are far more likely to be injured on the road getting to camp, and we all know this to be true, but you cannot avoid the roads in today's world. You can only drive more carefully or less often. While you are relatively safer out in the woods, you still wish to take the precautions deemed necessary to protect your family from harm, and there is nothing worse than a helpless feeling.
One cannot easily mitigate the dangers of the roadway. One can easily procure and develop proficiency with a tool that can help keep one's family from harm when there is no one or nothing else keeping them safe. Safely store it as it is a dangerous tool, as one would take similar precautions with small children and a fillet knife.
We are talking about the difference between factors you have influence over and those you don't.
Agreed, and Rob's a poopyhead.
[smacks Rob with a chain mail gauntlet and runs away]
Take that!!!
:xxrotflma
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
I know the conclusion of the stats are obvious. The point of bringing it up is that the oft-sited reason for carrying a weapon is for protection. In particular, many people say they want to protect their family. The stats bring it into stark reality that having a gun in one's home greatly increases the risk of death by accidental gunshot.
In 1999, 3385 children were killed by guns. 489 in the age group 0-14. According to Wiki, 20.2% of the American population is in this age group, or 56.8 million kids. So the death rate by gun is 0.86 deaths per 100,000 children. The referenced study shows that gun deaths in other countries (with presumably lower gun ownership) is 12 times lower, so presumably 0.07 deaths per 100,000. 448 kids per year could be saved if gun ownership were reduced. On average, only 2-3 people per year (not just kids!) die from bear attacks. That's only about 0.0001/100,000. So you've increased the chance of accidental shooting death by 0.79/100,000, in order to reduce the odds of a bear attack by 0.0001? I know this doesn't get into the discussion about human attacks but I don't even know where to begin with those numbers. I guess I could just trot out the obvious crime rates in the US vs. other countries.
I don't protect my family by having a gun. I protect them by not having a gun.
This is very interesting... this discussion has actually swung me back the other way. I will probably just stick to bear spray. And it works on people too.
http://www.adn.com/2008/04/20/381252/spray-proves-its-worth-in-bear.html
I understand your argument. I also feel that responsible gun ownership entails protecting your family from itself. Trigger locks and unloaded if there are kids in the house. If you need a grab and go... there are biometric safes that open in a second or so... if you need to move faster than that... time to relocate.
As far as worries about children getting into the guns while out camping... don't see how they could mess with it on my person without me knowing about it.... but I have no children of my own, so I can get by woth considerably fewer precautions.
This is a very interesting thread and is more or less the reason I stopped doing outdoor stuff with a friend of mine. I have been into hiking and kayaking for many years and have never carried a weapon. Tools yes (knife) but not a weapon. Now I should mention I have a number of them at home for target and a little hunting and have taken a number of classes so I feel I am somewhat comfortable around them.
I understand why someone might feel safer with a gun but I am not sure for me it is a good choice. I have had bears in the camp on a couple occasions and they are very food fixated and not so interested in the humans in my experience. As for the human kind I have never really been in a position to be concerned in the north woods. Yes I know there are exceptions but I am looking at the odds here.
My issue with my friend was when he bought a handgun, fired it twice on a range (no training) and indicated he was going to carry it on a sea kayaking trip with our group. The guy always was a bit nervous in the backcountry (I think he lays awake worried about bears, etc) and it worried me more that he would hear Rocky the Raccoon and take a shot in the middle of the night without situational awareness and shoot me in my tent. This seemed a much bigger risk to me.
I really don't have a problem with someone carrying if they have the training and experience but just picking up an 870 at Walmart or getting a hand gun and throwing it in the back of the truck in not a good idea in my opinion. If you are going to bring a gun at least make sure you have the training to handle it in a stressful situation. (steps off soap box)
I understand why someone might feel safer with a gun but I am not sure for me it is a good choice. I have had bears in the camp on a couple occasions and they are very food fixated and not so interested in the humans in my experience. As for the human kind I have never really been in a position to be concerned in the north woods. Yes I know there are exceptions but I am looking at the odds here.
My issue with my friend was when he bought a handgun, fired it twice on a range (no training) and indicated he was going to carry it on a sea kayaking trip with our group. The guy always was a bit nervous in the backcountry (I think he lays awake worried about bears, etc) and it worried me more that he would hear Rocky the Raccoon and take a shot in the middle of the night without situational awareness and shoot me in my tent. This seemed a much bigger risk to me.
I really don't have a problem with someone carrying if they have the training and experience but just picking up an 870 at Walmart or getting a hand gun and throwing it in the back of the truck in not a good idea in my opinion. If you are going to bring a gun at least make sure you have the training to handle it in a stressful situation. (steps off soap box)
timh
Explorer
More with the gun/no gun arguments??? No one is going to change their mind one way or the other.
I will say however, in regards to all of the statistics, it comes down to education, supervision, and responsibility. It is completely safe to own a gun with children around if you use common sense. GUNS are not the problem, lazy, irresponsible people are the problem. Ever get annoyed when someone let's their kids run around a store yelling and screaming out of control? What do you think their household is like and what if they owned guns? My guess is that the lack of supervision applies at home as well in most cases. People have forgotten what it takes to be a parent, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
I will say however, in regards to all of the statistics, it comes down to education, supervision, and responsibility. It is completely safe to own a gun with children around if you use common sense. GUNS are not the problem, lazy, irresponsible people are the problem. Ever get annoyed when someone let's their kids run around a store yelling and screaming out of control? What do you think their household is like and what if they owned guns? My guess is that the lack of supervision applies at home as well in most cases. People have forgotten what it takes to be a parent, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
When you look at the very young curious ones, the numbers are much, much different.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2001/07/levittpoolsvsguns.php
Here's the intro: What's more dangerous: a swimming pool or a gun? When it comes to children, there is no comparison: a swimming pool is 100 times more deadly.
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
(steps onto soap box)
... pretty much why I am contemplating cancelling my lifetime membership to the NRA even after paying all that money. I am an advocate of the responsible gun owner. I am not pro gun. Traveling into the back country with a tool that you are not properly trained and practiced with adds an additional degree of danger for everyone around you. Protecting this type of ignorant gun ownership is bad for everyone, especially the people who have been convinced by someone with a political agenda that the bogeyman is out there and only a gun will stop him. As mentioned many times above, American children are paying the cost of this ignorance with their blood. Right here, right now, at least one per day if I'm not mistaken.
Be safe. The decision to hold and bear arms comes with a great responsability. If safety is not your primary concern, go get a dog and a baseball bat, they'll handle most of it.
(steps off soap box)
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