Does a 230 mile/charge range make you more or less likely to buy a Lighning?

[ChasingOurTrunks]

What is going to happen once Lithium gets a lot more expensive and harder to come by?
That is right around the corner.

Lat mile delivery is a perfect application for EV's. At least that would give us some idea about how well they might perform
in that environment. With Amazon distribution centers all over the place, that would be a good test case.
40 to 50 mile route, going back to base every day to be recharged, I can see that working out OK.

Regarding Amazon -- Yup -- already en route; a cross-over for this community is the Amazon vans in this article are Rivian, who are positioning their EV Pickup as "adventure ready" in some of the marketing.

Rivian's Amazon Electric Delivery Van In The Wild, It's A Biggie

It seems Rivian didn't have to downsize its electric Amazon delivery van to help with range. In fact, it may be roomier than many gas-powered delivery vans.

insideevs.com

 

[billiebob]

This technology is changing so fast, you need to want to be there for the accolades of joining the green alternative fuel choices club. Who'd a thought you could charge a cell phone wirelessly. Apparently that is coming the electric cars.

60 years ago ******** Tracey was comic book stuff.



60 years ago ******** was a guys name short for Richard.

 

[AbleGuy]

I had posted a solution that went over most peoples head. In a different thread. I will do it the KISS way this time.

#1 You buy a electric vehicle.
#2 They give you a charged battery with the vehicle like a tank of gas. This battery is not yours, you are just using it. You can charge it up at your home or business.
#3 when on a trip or driving around. When the vehicle runs low on battery power (fuel) you pull into a fuel/battery station.
#4 You pull into the line for battery replacement.
#5 They pop the hatch to the battery. Unstrap the battery pop off the plug. lift comes down and removes the battery.
#6 A charged battery is installed in the vehicle.
#7 You pay for the charged battery and drive away.

This should be close to the same amount of time to pump gas or swap out a battery.

If the government has the power to force pollution controls, safety devices on your vehicle then, then they can make the builders of the vehicles make the batteries universal.

You have the stations in place already. With the charging station and lift modifications you will have the stations in place already.

Now it is Wednesday and your short of money you can not afford to buy the long range battery so you buy the short range battery that will get you through to payday.

Now you have the stations set-up already (the gas/diesel/ battery stations). This will work just like buying fuel. You drive, you use it up you buy more fuel / electric power. The battery is charged waiting for the next vehicle to stop in.

The stations get the batteries from the big oil companies just as they buy the fuel from them. Yes, it will take some time to get the batteries built, stations retrofitted and employees trained.

Filling stations will be around a long time since electric vehicle will need many improvements to get up to speed with what the consumer wants. This will take time. I do not see electric sim-trucks replacing the diesel trucks soon, away not for a while.

Some of you might have laughed at Frenchie’s swappable battery ideas, but that’s exactly what the Chinese are working so diligently on right now! So I’d say it seems our man Frenchie is ahead of his time and out in front of some of you scornful doubters ! ?

Insight: Inside China's electric drive for swappable car batteries

A year ago Tesla dismissed the alternative path of electric car battery swapping as "riddled with problems and not suitable for widescale use". It seems Beijing disagrees.

www.reuters.com

 

[givemethewillys]

There was a trial in Isreal to promote the viability of hot-swappable batteries too, which failed. I can't remember the name I the company but I read about it in wired magazine about ten years ago.

Although that trial deemed it not viable, I still think there's something there. Forklifts do it all the time.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Some of you might have laughed at Frenchie’s swappable battery ideas, but that’s exactly what the Chinese are working so diligently on right now! So I’d say it seems our man Frenchie is ahead of his time and out in front of some of you scornful doubters ! ?

Insight: Inside China's electric drive for swappable car batteries

A year ago Tesla dismissed the alternative path of electric car battery swapping as "riddled with problems and not suitable for widescale use". It seems Beijing disagrees.

www.reuters.com

They have been doing it with forklifts for decades...

Lightnings range is about what they said from the start so no change for me. Pass.

 

[plh]

Some of you might have laughed at Frenchie’s swappable battery ideas, but that’s exactly what the Chinese are working so diligently on right now! So I’d say it seems our man Frenchie is ahead of his time and out in front of some of you scornful doubters ! ?

Insight: Inside China's electric drive for swappable car batteries

A year ago Tesla dismissed the alternative path of electric car battery swapping as "riddled with problems and not suitable for widescale use". It seems Beijing disagrees.

www.reuters.com

Surprised they list Nio a relatively small player in the Chinese EV market, and Geely doesn't make it in the top 15. From a local China EV maker, BYD is the top seller, then Tesla, then GM.

 

[jkam]

DARPA probably has Nikola Tesla's papers.
I think Tesla figured out how to get free electricity from the air.
Might not be a lot of electricity but I would think by now that DARPA
has taken that to further development.
That would bring me closer to thinking EV's are viable in the nearer future.

 

[AbleGuy]

Yes, I'm in the southwest end. I see various models of Teslas, Taycans, a few Hyundai Konas.

I think I saw a Mercedes EQS a few weeks ago. I didn't even realize they were on sale yet.

I was more surprised to see a yellow G-wagon 4x4 squared in the same parking lot right after. Can't be too many of those around?

Saw my first Rivian yesterday in person, wow! What a stunning looking truck (kinda a dark sagey green). WoW! Beautiful rig! ?

Guy had to stop to let me cross in front of him (I was on foot, great mpgs?). Probably PO’ed driver a bit cause I stood in the middle of the street, jaw dropped, staring/drooling at the truck.

When I cleared his path, he gunned it…truck really took off, surprisingly making a smooth growly like noise!?

 

[jkam]

Don't forget to add in the recycling facilities needed to keep up with that many batteries.
Materials needed to make batteries is going to get very expensive as things get more scarce.
Having a system that would allow quick change of batteries is a great idea.
Having the batteries available at a reasonable cost might not make it that easy to do.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Yep. And also when charging stations are as abundant as gas stations.

I don’t have a gas station at home- but the electric can be charged there. Then again for whatever reason I like overpaying for snacks so I’d still go to the gas station.?

The shift to electric vehicles is going to cause a change in how we do things compared to ICE vehicles. Fueling stops will be a big one.

Right now, you can only put a gas station in certain areas. It has to be big enough for there to be a big underground tank, and the 18 wheeler that fills that tank has to be able to get in and out. Not to mention the environmental engineering that has to be done to make sure the fumes from that tank don't cause problems or leak into the ground water.

Then there's the economic side of it: Given all the rules, regulations and restrictions surrounding gas stations, you have to make the station big enough and with enough pumps to be profitable. The reason there's not a gas station on every corner like there used to be is that a gas station on every corner wouldn't make money and couldn't stay in business.

But when you are talking about electricity - NONE of that applies. All you need for an electric charger is the physical space to park the vehicles and a cable big enough to carry the power needed. No underground storage tank, no Department of Environmental Quality inspections, no room for an 18 wheeler fuel truck to get in there, etc.

So, in theory, there's no reason you couldn't have a couple of EV chargers in every business parking lot. In fact, if I ran a business oriented to travelers, I'd pay money out of my own pocket to get an EV charging station, on the theory that if someone stops to charge their vehicle, there's an excellent chance that they'll be patronizing my restaurant, coffee shop, bookstore, etc.

The cost and complexity of an electric charging station would also be much less than a gas station. It's just a big battery charger, nothing more. All it would need besides power to charge is the ability to connect to a network for billing the user for the power consumed.

Just off the top of my head, it wouldn't surprise me if you could build a 50-car charging station for the cost of a decent sized convenience-store/gas station, especially by the time you get to the point of filing all the environmental paperwork and getting the petroleum equipment inspected.

 

[Todd780]

The shift to electric vehicles is going to cause a change in how we do things compared to ICE vehicles. Fueling stops will be a big one.

Right now, you can only put a gas station in certain areas. It has to be big enough for there to be a big underground tank, and the 18 wheeler that fills that tank has to be able to get in and out. Not to mention the environmental engineering that has to be done to make sure the fumes from that tank don't cause problems or leak into the ground water.

Then there's the economic side of it: Given all the rules, regulations and restrictions surrounding gas stations, you have to make the station big enough and with enough pumps to be profitable. The reason there's not a gas station on every corner like there used to be is that a gas station on every corner wouldn't make money and couldn't stay in business.

But when you are talking about electricity - NONE of that applies. All you need for an electric charger is the physical space to park the vehicles and a cable big enough to carry the power needed. No underground storage tank, no Department of Environmental Quality inspections, no room for an 18 wheeler fuel truck to get in there, etc.

So, in theory, there's no reason you couldn't have a couple of EV chargers in every business parking lot. In fact, if I ran a business oriented to travelers, I'd pay money out of my own pocket to get an EV charging station, on the theory that if someone stops to charge their vehicle, there's an excellent chance that they'll be patronizing my restaurant, coffee shop, bookstore, etc.

The cost and complexity of an electric charging station would also be much less than a gas station. It's just a big battery charger, nothing more. All it would need besides power to charge is the ability to connect to a network for billing the user for the power consumed.

Just off the top of my head, it wouldn't surprise me if you could build a 50-car charging station for the cost of a decent sized convenience-store/gas station, especially by the time you get to the point of filing all the environmental paperwork and getting the petroleum equipment inspected.

Hmm... Parking lot / Parkade of the future? Pay a little more per hour but it comes with a charging station?

I will let you have that idea but I want 30% of the profits.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Hmm... Parking lot / Parkade of the future? Pay a little more per hour but it comes with a charging station?

I will let you have that idea but I want 30% of the profits.

Wish I could claim the idea but I'm probably the last person on earth to figure this out.

Think about what this might mean to small towns that are currently dying. Spend a couple hundred thousand $$ to put in a mega-charge parking lot on the edge of downtown. People need to park for a couple of hours to charge their vehicles so what are they going to do? Wander around and spend money.

 

[Grassland]

Wish I could claim the idea but I'm probably the last person on earth to figure this out.

Think about what this might mean to small towns that are currently dying. Spend a couple hundred thousand $$ to put in a mega-charge parking lot on the edge of downtown. People need to park for a couple of hours to charge their vehicles so what are they going to do? Wander around and spend money.

Does that small town/municipality have grid capacity to even do that?
I live in "the" major city of my province, and our grid is collapsing under the strain of ancient infrastructure, despite having a brand new overpriced transmission line built to send megawatts to the USA, and plenty of extra generation capacity most of the time.

I mean, ideally your idea works and breaths some life into small towns, and helps stop the population drain from them, I just don't think small municipalities have the capital to do that, nor the stomach for the risk.

 

[NorthwestDriver]

300 mile highway range is ideal. Plenty of tow capacity within the city, which is all the further I go when towing. On road trips, 300 miles gets me 3 hours of 70mph driving between stops for food, toddler play breaks, bathroom breaks, etc.

The key to road tripping with EVs is to recharge in the low to middle band of the battery capacity, this is the fastest part of the battery to charge. Going from 10 to 60% is faster than 80 to 100%. Most EVs on sale right now will do 10-60% in 20 to 30 minutes, and 10-80% in 50-60 minutes. For a 300mi battery, that’s 150 miles in 20min or 210 miles in 50 min. Not bad, especially when I already need to stop every 2-3 hours with the family and it’s always for 20 minutes at least, closer to an hour for lunch.

Nio is pioneering battery swap technology (China).

Kia, Hyundai, and GM are working on 800v battery architecture, which will charge 2x as fast as most EVs today. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV 6 will charge 10-80% in 30 minutes.

Automakers are making big strides right now. If there’s not an EV for your use today, there very likely will be in 5 years.

 

[matoolie]

As already been said, charging times are a big issue for most people. However, this will improve as the next big change in EV is battery tech. That is where the next major breakthrough is going to be. The technology in our vehicles today didn’t happen overnight. Nor did the infrastructure that supports our vehicles. It will all take time. But vast improvements in battery tech will help with all of that. I think the major battery improvements needed are faster recharging, increased safety and stability, consistent power over wide range of temperatures, and perhaps range (faster recharge will help offset some of this need). And all of this with lower cost goes without saying. Lithium ion is the first major step. I do not believe lithium ion will be the standard by the time manufacturers kill off ICE for personal passenger vehicles for good.