Don't flame... BUT is the Wrangler the new Defender for the U.S. ???

[David Harris]

The JK is a recreational 4x4 built for weekend duty and that's it. The Defender is a commercial 4x4 built for professionals who run off road for their jobs 24/7. Also, the design on the JK is not particularly good for a 4x4. Yes, the suspension flexes pretty well and the Rubi has lockers, but the rest of the design is poor and it's that way because it's compromised for on road performance where most new Jeeps spend most of their time. For example, Look underneath the JK and you'll see that the drivetrain is set very low in the chassis for on road stability. The short wheelbase can get by with that to a degree, but the long wheelbase really drags its undercarriage off road on stock size tires. To overcome this you have to put really big tires on the Jeep which then means that you have to beef the rest of the drivetrain up because now that is underrated for the tire size. This even goes for the Rubi with D44's which are often completely rebuilt or replaced completely due to the weak front end parts installed from the factory. This low hanging undercarriage has been a problem for Jeeps going way back. My friend is currently raising the drivetrain of his YJ to get rid of that low hanging trans/tc crossmember. My CJ5 had that too. Look under a pre IFS/IRS Land Rover and you will see that the designers have everything tucked way up into the chassis for protection and clearance the way it should be for a 4x4. Stock size tires or a size or two larger are all you need to go some very difficult places, without lockers. Add to that stock 3.32 low range gear driven transfer case, full-floating axles front and rear, stock long-arm suspension, etc. and you have a much better designed 4x4 than any Jeep. The Defender 110 even comes with a full floating Dana 60 in the rear from the factory. The frame is fully boxed and very strong. The JK is nowhere close to the payload of the Defender either. It's in a whole other class so can't be compared in truth. The only reason the JK is compared at all in my opinion is that it looks the part: flat panels, exposed door hinges, utilitarian air about it, etc. I think if you're going to compare anything Jeep to the Defender it would have to be the J8 which is truly built to commercial specs like the Defender, Land Cruiser, Patrol, Gelandewagen, and vehicles like that which are also meant for full time professional use off road.

David

Stock Defender 110 versus Stock JKU

 

[KiwiKurt]

imo the problem with the the JKU scene are the majority of the owners. the majority are douchy and/or mall crawler builds with hoopty rims now. The only reason jeeps are as successful as they are is because of the after market support they get. within minutes of a new wrangler release, the aftermarket has responded to what is assuredly a huge buying segment.

Had 2 jeeps, never got the jeep thing, wont ever buy one again. the fact a new wrangler decked out is well north of $40,000 is outright offensive to me. I'll pass.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Theprofessional]

$0.02
I actually had the opportunity a couple of years ago to trade my Subaru for a TJ and, while i absolutely loved the utilitarianism of the TJ, one of the big factors was how un-protected the Jeep was. as mentioned with the LR's, everything important on my Subaru is tucked up above the frame. At the time of my decision I had already high-centered the Outback twice without any damage and everything on the TJ just looked way too vulnerable; I knew I would break something. I've noticed that a lot with American cars, that they're mostly geared toward on-road performance. That's not to say they are extremely capable vehicle but should I desire to drive across the Serengeti plains I woujld think twice before taking a Jeep.

Even a Beetle could probably make it further across Africa, if you know the reference.

 

[dwvninety]

$0.02
I actually had the opportunity a couple of years ago to trade my Subaru for a TJ and, while i absolutely loved the utilitarianism of the TJ, one of the big factors was how un-protected the Jeep was. as mentioned with the LR's, everything important on my Subaru is tucked up above the frame. At the time of my decision I had already high-centered the Outback twice without any damage and everything on the TJ just looked way too vulnerable; I knew I would break something. I've noticed that a lot with American cars, that they're mostly geared toward on-road performance. That's not to say they are extremely capable vehicle but should I desire to drive across the Serengeti plains I woujld think twice before taking a Jeep.

Even a Beetle could probably make it further across Africa, if you know the reference.

What American car is geared for the outback/off-roading? Most American cars are either performance based, family based, econo based, etc. The only car I see advertised for the outdoor type is the Subaru which is Japanese. Please enlighten us what American cars you are referring too. Please don't reference 4X4, trucks, SUV, Crossovers since you specifically mentioned cars.

 

[roverandom]

AMC Eagle?

 

[roverrocks]

Newly redesigned 2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk or 2015 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk?

 

[dwvninety]

Newly redesigned 2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk or 2015 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk?

2014 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk

Jeep Active Drive I is for people who rarely if ever venture off-road and are simply looking for better traction on slick or snowy roads.

Active Drive II is for serious off-road driving. It lifts the vehicle by one inch for better ground clearance and has a low-speed mode with locking drive shafts front and rear for crawling over rough terrain at a slow pace.

Jeep Active Drive Lock is the third and most robust system. It's only available on a version called the Trailhawk, which is the only new Cherokee model to get Jeep's vaunted “trail rated” status.
This four-wheel-drive package raises the vehicle another inch, adds a locking rear differential, and special bumpers designed to allow for better approach and departure angles in relation to steep obstacles. Larger wheels and tires, tow hooks, underbody skid plates and other beefed-up equipment are also part of the package.

A new and improved V6 is optional and puts out 271 hp. It allows for towing capacity of 4,500 pounds, which Jeep says is class-leading for a V6 engine.

2015 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

Based on a Fiat 500X an SUV/Crossover

 

[libarata]

What American car is geared for the outback/off-roading? Most American cars are either performance based, family based, econo based, etc. The only car I see advertised for the outdoor type is the Subaru which is Japanese. Please enlighten us what American cars you are referring too. Please don't reference 4X4, trucks, SUV, Crossovers since you specifically mentioned cars.

He said that most American branded vehicles are geared towards on-road performance, nothing about an American vehicle being anything but. Also, car is synonymous with an automobile of any form. He spoke about a wagon, Beetle, and an SUV in the same paragraph. He could easily have mentioned a truck, or sedan as well.

As far as Subaru "being Japanese", Jeeps have a good amount of Mexican in them if you have not looked into it. "American" just states where the HQ is anymore, sometimes where assembly happens.

 

[Theprofessional]

What American car is geared for the outback/off-roading? Most American cars are either performance based, family based, econo based, etc. The only car I see advertised for the outdoor type is the Subaru which is Japanese. Please enlighten us what American cars you are referring too. Please don't reference 4X4, trucks, SUV, Crossovers since you specifically mentioned cars.

...........................What? What are you talking about? Are you seriously picking at semantics, or am I missing something?

"American" just states where the HQ is anymore, sometimes where assembly happens.

Mine was built in Oklahoma :ylsmoke:

 

[Kmrtnsn]

The fact is, the Defender is out of production. They are gone, forever. Find an old Rover if you can, they're going the way of the T-Rex. Even the die-hards must admit that the new one, if it ever appears, will surely cost two to three times the cost of a base 4x4 Wrangler, if not more and will be half the truck. The Wrangler is in production, now. They are rolling off of the assembly line in ever increasing numbers, here and abroad. When the JK/JKU ends productions in 2018, I would bet the total sales number rival 90/110 numbers for their entire production run. Times are changing. Although there is nothing wrong with clinging to the past. Hell, if I could find an old 110, I'd snatch it up, I'm nostalgic that way but for those that need day-to-day reliability and lack the time to search out archaic bits of crap Lucas electrical systems, the JKU is a better answer. No current production vehicle has near the aftermarket support level in terms of parts and accessories, and is no way near as modifiable with such an array of suppliers and configurations.

 

[dwvninety]

The fact is, the Defender is out of production. They are gone, forever. Find an old Rover if you can, they're going the way of the T-Rex. Even the die-hards must admit that the new one, if it ever appears, will surely cost two to three times the cost of a base 4x4 Wrangler, if not more and will be half the truck. The Wrangler is in production, now. They are rolling off of the assembly line in ever increasing numbers, here and abroad. When the JK/JKU ends productions in 2018, I would bet the total sales number rival 90/110 numbers for their entire production run. Times are changing. Although there is nothing wrong with clinging to the past. Hell, if I could find an old 110, I'd snatch it up, I'm nostalgic that way but for those that need day-to-day reliability and lack the time to search out archaic bits of crap Lucas electrical systems, the JKU is a better answer. No current production vehicle has near the aftermarket support level in terms of parts and accessories, and is no way near as modifiable with such an array of suppliers and configurations.

^^^2nd that. Even if you have the latest (USA market) LR4 and break something on the trail you will be hard pressed to get the part you need locally.

When I overland on my 2003 Disco I bring oil, coolant, spare belts, hoses, alternator, starter, crank position sensor, coil pack, throttle position sensor, water pump, F/R drive shafts, idle air control valve, gaskets, and tools. Since getting these parts locally in remote places are pretty rare. On my Jeep I know there is a town nearby which has a parts store that I can get Jeep parts. I still carry spare parts but not as much as the Disco.

On my LR3 I overland on it but only venture outside civilization by a few miles. No way will I take it to very remote places.

 

[David Harris]

The Wrangler is in production, now. They are rolling off of the assembly line in ever increasing numbers, here and abroad. When the JK/JKU ends productions in 2018, I would bet the total sales number rival 90/110 numbers for their entire production run. Times are changing.

Times are indeed changing. IFS/IRS is coming soon to a Wrangler near you. . . Something tells me that the new Defender, which will also undoubtedly be IFS/IRS will be a great off road performer, as the LR3/4 are, probably better. We'll see how the new IFS/IRS Wrangler compares when the time comes.

 

[Blueboy]

2015 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

yep, looking forward to seeing these this year in Europe where we are currently living.

then when we move back in 2016, see how well they were accepted in the USA market.

 

[proper4wd]

On my LR3 I overland on it but only venture outside civilization by a few miles. No way will I take it to very remote places.

That's a shame. How do you substantiate this fear? I have yet to hear of an LR3 leaving someone stranded, dying of dehydration in Death Valley, even though many would have you believe they are prone to do so.

 

[overlander]

On my LR3 I overland on it but only venture outside civilization by a few miles. No way will I take it to very remote places.

how can you call "a few miles outside civilization" overlanding? thats an abuse of terminology. You can do that in a smartcar or prius.