EarthCruiser Overland Vehicles

landy2010

New member
Bandicoot, my congratulations, and many happy months of touring in your new EC! Please share with us your impressions of the vehicle as they develop.

However, with the greatest of respect, it is in my view wishful thinking to expect insurance companies to do the right and honourable thing if and when you need them. In reality, should you be unlucky enough to have an accident in your EC that is your fault, your insurers will dilligently look for and duly find all legal and technical looopholes to deny payment of your claim. Nothing personal, just business. There is no malice in this, it is just how that industry normally operates - business is business, and they will not pay if they do not have to.

Having the extra fuel and water tanks labelled 'for off road use only' does not get you off the hook, I am afraid.

Firstly, any and all goods are supposed, by law, to be fit for the purpose that they are sold for. In this case, the obvious purpose of additional fuel and water tanks is to carry extra diesel and water wherever the vehicle goes. You would not be able to legally fly a plane with a long range tank option making it overweight on the basis of a sticker on the instrument panel stating that Tank A is for use in flight, but Tank B is for use on the ground only. Similar principle applies to your EC.

Secondly, correct me if I am wrong, but I would tentatively say there is really no such thing as 'off-road' in Australia. In rare cases, and only very occasionally, you can drive cross-country, where there are no roads and never have been. That is, if you have a permission from the landowner, a state land management agency or a national park authority. 4WD magazines occasionally do such trips in remote deserts, after obtaining a fistful of permits.

We ordinary mortals, , however, generally drive our 4WDs on road. That is, on dirt roads and 4WD tracks which are on occasions quite remote, rough and difficult to negotiate. However, most of them are either gazetted public roads, or vehicular access trails proclaimed by local shires. I understand Canning is technically a gazetted road, as is most of Cape York and most Simpson trails.

I have to agree with ozzyfishaman - you can and should mitigate your risk by having your EC certified as 6000kg GVM vehicle and having it formally described as such on both compliance plates - the chassis manufacturer's one, and the 'secondary manufacturer' plate affixed to the vehicle by the EC builders. That way you do not give anyone a pretext to deny you an insurance payout, or slap you with a fine just because they can, if you are several hundred kilos over 4500kg.

The downside is having to go and get a light truck (LR) licence, plus the increased cost of registration. On the other hand, if your GVM is plated at 6 tonnes, you do not have to stop at heavy vehicle checking stations - that applies from 8 tonnes upwards; I don't think you fall into the scope of Safe-T-Cams heavy vehicle monitoring in NSW either, as heavy vehicles these cameras keep an eye on are ones with the GVM over 8 tonnes.

As to the rego, in some states (NSW, maybe also ACT) you might be able to apply for a special exemption, arguing that your EC is not a "goods carrying vehicle" to which truck registration rates apply. NSW formally defines 'motorhome' or 'campervan' as a specialised "people carrying vehicle" with a capacity of 2-6 persons, designed for sleeping in it. You may be able to negotiate a lower rego rate by formally declaring that the vehicle is for recreational use only. I am unaware of any upper GVM limit for motorhomes under that definition.
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
HI guys
You're pressing me on this one, which is good. I'm always happy to be called to account for my opinions!!
I guess there must be plenty of people out there with bad experiences of insurance companies, or is this just a widely held but perhaps not entirely fair belief!
Are you suggesting that if you have a "legally bald" tyre on your vehicle, and it is stolen from outside your house, that the insurance company will refuse to pay up on the basis that you had a bald tyre? What about if an indicator wasn't working when it was stolen? A seat belt was frayed? The mind boggles!
Attached is an extract from my insurance policy. You can see that the insurer IS willing to pay up if the vehicle is overloaded (or even carrying more than the legal number of passengers) IF the overloading didn't contribute to the accident. THis is despite the fact that both these conditions are ILLEGAL. Obviously, you can't expect them to cough up IF it did contribute!
In the case of the EC, it is NOT the legal requirement that will be the issue, since the vehicle IS rated (engineeering wise) at 6 tonnes; it's just REGISTERED at 4.5 tonnes.
As I've noted, NO-ONE has ever been able to provide an actual REAL LIFE example of any insurance claim on a 4x4 in Australia that was refused by an insurer even through the vehicle was over its GVM, and there are plenty of 4WDs going around in that condition. Some of them must have had accidents!
Bandicoot
 

Attachments

  • Insurance quote re payload.JPG
    Insurance quote re payload.JPG
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landy2010

New member
Are you suggesting that if you have a "legally bald" tyre on your vehicle, and it is stolen from outside your house, that the insurance company will refuse to pay up on the basis that you had a bald tyre? What about if an indicator wasn't working when it was stolen? A seat belt was frayed? The mind boggles!

Indeed. But your policy presumably says you are expected to be properly licensed for the vehicle?

  • If you drive your EC loaded to 4800kg, but have a LR licence, which makes you a legal driver of trucks up to GVM=8000kg, your only potential insurance problem is overloading the vehicle over its plated GVM; but if overloading has not contributed to the accident, all will be well, as per policy.

  • But if you drive the same EC loaded to 4800kg on a car licence, you are not licensed for the vehicle over 4500kg. Will your insurer overlook an unlicensed driver?
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
I'll be licensed for a vehicle up to 4500 kg. If I drive a vehicle that has a GVM of 4500 kg but at the time I was driving it is over 4500 kg, then I still have the CORRECT licence for that vehicle. I will NOT be unlicensed! It's just that the vehicle was overloaded (only if on a gazetted road, but NOT overloaded from an engineered safety point of view on either gazetted roads or elsewhere). I'd only be unlicensed if I upgraded the EC to 6 tonnes (if that was possible, which I doubt) and then tried to drive it on a 4.5 tonne licence!
The required class of licence relates to the plated GVM of the vehicle, NOT the actual weight in it at the time.
Bandicoot
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
No annual inspection if under 4.5 tonne GVM, at least here in Qld, which is where it will be registered.
Bandicoot
 

gait

Explorer
Perhaps I should have asked Landy "is there an annual inspection for over 4.5mt which may be impractical if in a different state or overseas?".
IMHO its a fairly big downside of over 4.5mt.
 

landy2010

New member
Perhaps I should have asked Landy "is there an annual inspection for over 4.5mt which may be impractical if in a different state or overseas?".
IMHO its a fairly big downside of over 4.5mt.

In the ACT, wher I live, yes, unfortunately there is an annual inspection for vehicles over GVM 4500kg, dunno about NSW.

Yes, it is a downside.

Getting the LR licence in the ACT is also a tad impactical and a pain in the Khyber, given that I'd be expected to demonstrate to the examiners, among other competencies of a commercial driver, my ability to properly load a goods carrying truck, including practical placement of load tie-downs.

Don't know about other states, but in the ACT I can argue till I'm blue in the face that a motorhome is not one and the same as a commercial goods carrying truck, and still nothing will change as to the content of the LR test.

If I were to limit GVM to 4500kg to drive an EC on a car licence, but in the process spent $180k or so on a 4WD vehicle with 500-550kg payload, half that of a Land Rover Defender 130 dual cab ute, then I'd have to rethink completely the whole idea of getting a truck based 4WD camper. $180k buys a brand new, highly specified large American 4WD dual cab ute, plus a decent rough roads caravan.
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
But to fairly compare an EC (or any 4WD mobile home) and a L/R, you’d need to add a large equipment list to the L/R for the comparison to be valid, including internal shower, external shower, water tanks, toilet with top and bottom tanks, internal kitchen, sink, bed, 1800 watt inverter, hot water system, internal air heating system, two water pumps, complete roof-full of solar panels, big electric awning, lots of built-in drawers and the rest.
If you did that the L/R would have no residual load capacity.
To me, the objective is to travel with as little gear as possible, providing we have the essentials and the “comfort gear” that is important to us. More gear means more packing, more trouble finding things, more maintenance of individual items, more things to worry about being left out and lost, left behind or stolen.
I can travel indefinitely with 20 kg of clothes. I know I can eat like a king at 1 kg/day groceries. If there’s at most 2 weeks between resupply, that means my wife and I need 40 kg for clothes (max) and 28 kg groceries (max). That’s not much. The only other things that really need to be carried are some comfy outside seats and a table, cutlery, plates bowls and a couple of cooking pots, and other miscellaneous bits and pieces...not much weight to them.
Some people travel heavy as they’re the “just in case” category of travellers. I’m in the “if in doubt, leave it out” category.
I do a lot of air travel as well and I’ll regularly go overseas for weeks with just a cabin bag weighing a maximum of about 12 kg and that includes heavy laptop and charger etc. No checked baggage.
For me, the 4500 kg in the EC is sufficient, has many practical advantages in registration and licensing, and does impose some “discipline” in terms of not wanting to carry lots of “just in case” gear.
Given the vehicle is engineered to 6000 kg (9200 kg GCM), running at 4500 kg should also give it a long, under-stressed and trouble-free life, providing it’s well maintained.
You’ve raised a good question in the off-road caravan and (having just got rid of one late last year), I’ll put my comments and thoughts in a separate post, as I think it is a topic in its own right!
Bandicoot
 

Goanna

New member
After returning from travelling in Morocco and the UK in 2008 I have been involved in building the ideal expedition vehicle. With that dream now a reality and the company I co-founded now having built a number of vehicles, the choice for me was do I continue to be involved with building other people’s dream or do we live the dream ourselves. Having only one chance on this planet my wife and I have chosen to see and experience most of it now.

On the 31st March I sold my interest in the manufacturing business to my business partner and with that Lyn and I are now free to continue to travel the world. There is in fact one stipulation from my life partner and that is that we return home every 3 to 4 months to catch up with the family and our five young growing grandchildren.

Thus on the 30th April, we loaded our vehicle ‘Goanna’ together with 3 other vehicles into 2 x 40’ containers bound for Kuala Lumpa. From here I have coordinated the travel of the group through Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, China, Tibet, Mongolia, and on the Vladivostok. The vehicles will then be shipped to Long Beach California for our eventual expedition from Alaska to South America during 2011/2012.

_DSC0216.JPG


The vehicles are 2 x EarthCruisers, 1 x our previous Canter and 1 x Isuzu NPS

_DSC0239a.jpg


It looks tight buy you can exit the cab via the drivers window and climb down between the bull bar and the container. After lashing down the front you can exit under the rear differential.

_DSC0252.JPG

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Our trip can be followed on www.blog.goannatracks.com
( or www.goannatracks.com once I get that link redirected)

From a business ethicists point of view I have chosen before this date not to involve myself in the forum arena however now that I am no longer involved in the EarthCruiser business I felt I would make an update to the forum readers. However I would like to make it clear that it would be inappropriate for me to respond to any questions about EarthCruiser and those questions should be directed to the company directly. All I will say is that it was exciting, creative and innovative to be involved in making such a product, and I am sure the success of both EarthCruiser and ATW will be directly and indirectly linked to this travel concept.

On the 30th May we fly to Kuala Lumpa and start to experience more of our world.
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
Kym
Looking forward to hearing and seeing all about your travels. Green with envy but hopefully my wife and I (and friends who have also ordered an EarthCruiser) will also be off "overlanding" internationally in the not too distant future.
How about a book from it all??
Rick (EC4)
 

Bandicoot

Adventurer
Kym
PS: Technical point--did you put any "padding" around the EC to reduce damage from contact with the shipping container on the high seas?
Rick
 

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