eatSleepWoof gets a Winnie

[Buddha.]

Can't stop, won't stop... fixing Winnebagos crap!

These trailers are notorious for having the black-tank valves seize up and get stuck. Ours has been very difficult since day one (this spring!) and completely seized in the open position after the last trip. I had previously opened the underbelly to have a look at how it was setup, and found that the handles on the exterior of the frame operate bowden cables, both of which run all the way across the trailer, do a full 180 degree turn, and then connect to the actual sliding-gate valve. The valves themselves open towards the passenger's side, not the driver's side (where the handles are). The cables are long, have tons of friction inside, and eventually corrode and seize up. Fun times.

(Most of the following is a copy of another Winnie owner's modification from a few years ago - the post was on Facebook somewhere and I saved snippets of it.)

So I opened up the underbelly and removed the original handle, cable, and the cable's attachment on the black tank valve, leaving me with just a metal rod that has 1/4-20 thread on the end.

I then picked up some 1/4-20 threaded rod from Home Depot, along with some PEX to slide overtop of it. I also grabbed some coupler nuts, regular nuts, washers, etc.

I threaded a nut, washer, and then the coupler nut on to the valve's thread, and locked the two nuts together (along with plenty of loctite). I then did the same thing on the other end of the coupler, this time threading in the rod I had bought.

I then applied some adhesive-lined heat shrink over the whole thing.

I drilled a hole in the frame of the trailer (just like the original holes on the other side), touched it up with spray paint, fed the rod (inside PEX) through it, installed the original black-tank-valve handle and an acorn nut, followed with another piece of adhesive-lined heat shrink.

Valve now operates smoothly, easily, and will hopefully never give me any more trouble.

Those cable operated valves are awful, doesn’t matter what they’re on. I see people give up on them and put another gate valve right at the sewer hookup.

 

[Buddha.]

The generator sound-deadening box is unfortunately another failed experiment. An expensive one. ($150 on parts/materials + nearly a day of work.)

I made four separate, noise-deadened panels, and then glued+screwed them together. Each panel has:
- 1/2" red oak plywood
- 2mm sound deadening mat
- 3mm mass loaded vinyl
- 10mm sound deadening, high-density foam
- 1/2" red oak plywood (second layer)

The measured sound difference at load, with and without the box is anywhere from 4-5db. I was really expecting at least 10db, if not closer to 20db.

I previously used these materials (in smaller/thinner amounts) on sound deadening my old Tacoma and it made a WORLD of difference. Not here. Maybe the sound frequencies produced by the generator pass through these materials, or who knows what else.

// edit

I looked over the sound-frequency portions of my sound tests, and see that initially (pre-box) I had a ton of waves in the 325hz range, and in the 3990hz, both around the same noise level. The high-frequency waves got completely silenced with the noise box (they went to sub 20db), but the low frequency waves barely changed. So it's the low-frequency stuff that's still giving off noise; those waves are longer and need more (thicker) material for good deadening.

// end edit

The one upside I did find is that placing the generator on grass (vs. concrete) immediately nets me a 6db loss in noise. I guess concrete reflects a lot of sound waves that are otherwise absorbed by the ground.

I saw someone online simply lean a couple pieces of plywood against their generator, like an A frame. He claimed the angle reflected the noise into the ground. Never tried it myself.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I saw someone online simply lean a couple pieces of plywood against their generator, like an A frame. He claimed the angle reflected the noise into the ground. Never tried it myself.

I saw that video (along with probably every other "generator sound deadening box"-type video on YouTube). It seemed to make a noticeable difference in the video, but that was a non-inverter generator, which is much louder by default. The portable, inverter-type generators are quieter, and require a more significant approach to deaden a similar amount of noise.

Going out camping this coming weekend and am eager to see the noise-deadening results in the wild!

 

[eatSleepWoof]

We've been struggling with the lack of a decent pantry to store (primarily) dry goods, so I fixed that problem over the weekend. New storage unit in place of the removed TV:

Attached to studs with ten 1 1/4" screws.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

The slide out rooms on these trailers are known for shaking up/down in transit, which damages components over time. A common preventative measure is to slide some wood or "yoga" blocks under the inner lip of the slide out when it's retracted, to support the slide out and minimize movement. The retracted position is also the "weakest" position for the slide out, to the point that you are not supposed to sit or even lean on the slide out when it's retracted.

I wasn't crazy about the idea of separate blocks, and figured I could use casters instead. I made two "legs" out of fir (55mm x 80mm), and mounted a caster (rated for 80lbs) under each leg. Each leg is secured with three through-bolts, and the floor of the slide out rests right on the leg. These should provide plenty of support, and I'll never have to think about them again.

The slide out room tilts down as the room is retracted, by a whole 15mm on one side, and 8mm on the other. I suspect this may be somewhat by design, so I didn't mess with trying to forcefully level it out. Instead, as the slide out is retracted, it slowly tilts down, and the caster wheels come in contact with the floor about 6-8" from final resting position. Works really well as far as I can tell.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Had a great four days / three nights on our now semi-usual beach.

All my earlier modifications worked beautifully and made life that much better.

The noise deadening box also worked great. I recorded a mere 44.6db on the camping side of the trailer while the generator was running at partial load (charging trailer, but not powering anything heavy, like AC/Microwave/etc.).

A lesson I learned rather quickly is that putting a generator on top of bare sand will lead to bad times. All of a sudden the generator started choking and dying, I opened it up and found at least a pound of sand inside. I guess the good news is that the built-in fans/ventilation work pretty damn well.

Cleaned it all out (ARB twin compressor helped) and back in business, now sitting on a tarp.

The first night out our heater AGAIN started turning on, blowing cold air for 20 seconds and shutting off. At 4am I went outside and swapped out the damn sail switch for a replacement I had bought earlier. Thank goodness I did that, and made the access panel. Five minute job.

The next day the water heater stopped lighting. I thought it would at least work off the generator, but no dice there, either. Couldn't diagnose it on the spot, but the next day I had a second look and decided to try removing the thermal fuse from the thermostat line, and sure enough, it fired up instantly. Ordered a bunch of replacement fuses right from the beach. Now the question is whether that was a one-off incident, or something that'll happen again (and thus signify that there's another issue at play). Time will tell.

I also saw that the generator gave me a charge of about 10ah at any one time, regardless of load. I could have the AC running, or nothing at all, and I still wouldn't get much more than 10ah out of the generator -> converter -> batteries circuit. The solar panel added a bit more charge here and there, but overall I was surprised by how little charge I got from the converter, given that it's rated for 55ah output. There must be something acting as a limiter... perhaps undersized wiring? Will have to investigate this eventually, as I'd love to get the full 55ah output whenever the generator is running. The generator puts out 20amps through the circuit at 120v, so that should be good for 200amps at 12v... in other words, the converter should have PLENTY of juice to be able to put out 55amps at any point. Unless I'm completely missing something?

In any case, despite a very hot weekend, with the generator and AC we were able to pre-cool the trailer to any temperature we wanted (usually aimed for 18-21C) before putting the kid down for naps. That made a HUGE difference for everyone involved and is an absolute life saver. The generator does add a very big element of luxury and convenience. We ran it for about 11 hours per day for the two full days, and about ~8ish hours total between the day we arrived and day we left. Great thing to have, as it turns out. I do suspect I'll end up ponying up $$ for a 100ft, 30amp cable just to put it that much further away. Distance really makes a huge difference in noise transmission (or lack of).

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Mounted two pieces of 12" L-track into the "backer plate" (simply a piece of galvanized steel sheet metal). Secured with stainless screws (& silicone, of course).

Current plan is to use these to secure a hard-case, which will contain a roll of paper towel. Might use the case for other items too, but I'm not sure just yet. Will see how it goes. The L-track offers endless flexibility and ensures I can mount anything I want without drilling into the trailer again.

 

[ITTOG]

Mounted two pieces of 12" L-track into the "backer plate" (simply a piece of galvanized steel sheet metal). Secured with stainless screws (& silicone, of course).

Current plan is to use these to secure a hard-case, which will contain a roll of paper towel. Might use the case for other items too, but I'm not sure just yet. Will see how it goes. The L-track offers endless flexibility and ensures I can mount anything I want without drilling into the trailer again.

Given only screwed into sheet metal, you will never have anything attached while driving on the highway?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Given only screwed into sheet metal, you will never have anything attached while driving on the highway?

I've got somewhat mixed feelings as far as that goes. My plan was/is to have the plastic container mounted all the time. Of course it'll be subject to wind resistance, and (potentially more scary) branches on trails.

The screws bit really well and tightened quite tight. I intentionally did not use self-drilling screws because they make a fairly large hole. I pre-drilled holes just small enough for the metal screws' pointed end to go through, and thread themselves in from there. Given that the sheet metal is somewhat further back in the wall, there's a fair bit of material between the exterior of the wall and the sheet metal, which helps, too. It sandwiches together and provides some support for vertical/lateral movement of the screw, although doesn't do much for screw "bite."

One upside of this mounting location is that it's below/behind the kitchen cabinetry. I'm keeping in mind a backup option, should any screws start pulling out or otherwise causing issues: drill straight through the wall to the other side, attach a plywood backing plate on the interior, and bolt the tracks through all materials.

My gut feeling is that things will be just fine even as it is, but we'll see.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I passed on the idea of mounting a case - decided it was too heavy/bulky for this location.

Instead, I mounted a paper towel holder directly to the upper track, and made a small, 8" x 12" shelf (from 3/16" aluminium) for the bottom track. This will be a good place to leave the phone/wallet/keys so they're both out of the way and not constantly getting lost.

On second thought, I'll probably have to figure out a different mounting idea for the paper towels - those protruding bolts will interfere with the roll.

I also replaced the exterior outlet with one that has USB ports. A small detail, but it'll be nice to not have to search for a USB adapter every time. The "tamper resistant" feature is nice to have, too.

Original outlet was straight from bizarro world, I've never seen anything like it:

 

[Buddha.]

I passed on the idea of mounting a case - decided it was too heavy/bulky for this location.

Instead, I mounted a paper towel holder directly to the upper track, and made a small, 8" x 12" shelf (from 3/16" aluminium) for the bottom track. This will be a good place to leave the phone/wallet/keys so they're both out of the way and not constantly getting lost.

On second thought, I'll probably have to figure out a different mounting idea for the paper towels - those protruding bolts will interfere with the roll.

I also replaced the exterior outlet with one that has USB ports. A small detail, but it'll be nice to not have to search for a USB adapter every time. The "tamper resistant" feature is nice to have, too.

Original outlet was straight from bizarro world, I've never seen anything like it:

Yes those are odd. They are their own junction box, that’s the idea. There’s a very expensive tool that presses the wires into place. They’re rated for three sets of wires pressed in there, which gets real tricky. They’ve definitely caused me some stress.

Since they function as their own junction box, and you replaced it with a standard house style receptacle you’re probably not running a junction box anymore. I’m sure there’s some danger in there so keep that in mind.

While I’m on the subject of modifications I’ll mention one more thing. The weather proofing of the rail you put on the outside there. It would be standard procedure in the rv shop to use a two layered approach. You take a roll of butyl tape, or foam tape, and cover the back of the rail before screwing it to the trailer. Then you trim off the excess and seal with some kind of caulking.

I’m not sure how you did it but it would be a shame to have water sneak in there and delaminate your wall and give you an ugly bubble. I worked on a nice Arctic Fox truck camper a couple weeks ago that had that issue from a CB antenna that was installed without sealant.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Yes those are odd. They are their own junction box, that’s the idea. There’s a very expensive tool that presses the wires into place. They’re rated for three sets of wires pressed in there, which gets real tricky. They’ve definitely caused me some stress.

Since they function as their own junction box, and you replaced it with a standard house style receptacle you’re probably not running a junction box anymore. I’m sure there’s some danger in there so keep that in mind.

While I’m on the subject of modifications I’ll mention one more thing. The weather proofing of the rail you put on the outside there. It would be standard procedure in the rv shop to use a two layered approach. You take a roll of butyl tape, or foam tape, and cover the back of the rail before screwing it to the trailer. Then you trim off the excess and seal with some kind of caulking.

I’m not sure how you did it but it would be a shame to have water sneak in there and delaminate your wall and give you an ugly bubble. I worked on a nice Arctic Fox truck camper a couple weeks ago that had that issue from a CB antenna that was installed without sealant.

That's great info, Buddha!

Butyl tape behind the tracks is a good idea - shame I didn't think of that myself. I'll re-mount them today with butyl tape.

Can you tell me more about junction box vs. outlet? The original setup had two sets of residential romex running into that junction/outlet. I attached both sets to the terminals of the 15a outlet I installed. I would think that given matching ratings of the outlets, so long as all wiring is solidly connected and protected from contact with anything else - as it was originally, and as it is now - everything else is equal. The cumulative load of the whole circuit is still what it was before, breakers should trip at the same load, etc. Am I missing something?

 

[Buddha.]

That's great info, Buddha!

Butyl tape behind the tracks is a good idea - shame I didn't think of that myself. I'll re-mount them today with butyl tape.

Can you tell me more about junction box vs. outlet? The original setup had two sets of residential romex running into that junction/outlet. I attached both sets to the terminals of the 15a outlet I installed. I would think that given matching ratings of the outlets, so long as all wiring is solidly connected and protected from contact with anything else - as it was originally, and as it is now - everything else is equal. The cumulative load of the whole circuit is still what it was before, breakers should trip at the same load, etc. Am I missing something?

I’m no electrician but I’ll take a stab at an uneducated reply.
I believe every outlet, light switch, wire splice etc needs to be in an enclosed junction box. There are not conventional junction boxes in an rv, they use the weird combination outlet/junction box things you found.
If you changed an outlet in your house the existing junction box would not be affected because it’s separate from the outlet. When you put a regular outlet in your rv the wiring connections are not in an enclosed plastic box anymore. The wiring connections are in the wall cavity or poked through the thin rv wall and somewhat exposed in the cabinet under your sink or whatever. Without the junction box the wires could rattle loose and not be contained in the relatively safe box, they could short to any number of things.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I’m no electrician but I’ll take a stab at an uneducated reply.
I believe every outlet, light switch, wire splice etc needs to be in an enclosed junction box. There are not conventional junction boxes in an rv, they use the weird combination outlet/junction box things you found.
If you changed an outlet in your house the existing junction box would not be affected because it’s separate from the outlet. When you put a regular outlet in your rv the wiring connections are not in an enclosed plastic box anymore. The wiring connections are in the wall cavity or poked through the thin rv wall and somewhat exposed in the cabinet under your sink or whatever. Without the junction box the wires could rattle loose and not be contained in the relatively safe box, they could short to any number of things.

Ah! Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. I thought there was a risk of some sort of electrical incompatibility, but this is more of a potential of something inside the trailer contacting the outlet terminals. Not much of a risk IMO, but I suppose having a physical/plastic case separating the outlet from the rest of the trailer's interior wouldn't be a bad thing. I believe I've seen plastic electrical outlet-boxes which just "drop in" into existing drywall; something like that could work here.

// edit - Ordered a box, will install it in a few days!

 

[eatSleepWoof]

1. Re-installed the tracks with butyl tape behind them, and then hit them with a bead of silicone over the top and two sides. After attaching the butyl strip to the track, I worked it with a heat gun to soften up the butyl, installed it on trailer, then trimmed off the squeezed-out butyl on all sides. Made for a very clean end result.
2. Used shorter bolts for the shelf mount. These don't interfere with the folding brackets and allow the shelf to close fully vertical.
3. New bracket for the paper towel mount. No more interference with bolts, and a bit more room above the shelf.