Eco-Roamer - F650 based Expedition Vehicle

[Code Monkey]

I do believe that 250" is very long, for me it would be to long. For real Off-road this will be a big minus. Here in Europe wheelbases are around 140" (+/- 15"), longer ones are out their just pushing limits in the big sand Box.

Probably a lot of that length difference is due to the fact that many of the trucks in Europe are a cab over engine configuration, which gets you a shorter truck, but all else being equal also gets you a taller cab.

In the USA many drivers/owners are much more used to the configuration of having the engine out in front of the cab so they tend towards that config when they have the choice and there are more choices too. Plus many of the euro trucks are not imported here, or aren't easily imported, so that cuts down on the selection - especially when the buyer wants a 4x4 which makes the selections in cabovers even smaller here.

 

[Code Monkey]

I have been following this thread, and will follow it, not because I intend to have a truck that big - I don't - but because I am pondering whether to go to an air suspension, either full air, or hybrid (air and leaf).

I get that the air suspension needs something to help locate the axle - that much is obvious from what happens when that location mechanism is broken as was dramatically show in the accident.

The Kelderman is one of the air suspensions I have been considering for my Dodge 3500 cab chassis (165" WB, reg. cab, 4x4, 12' bed):

http://www.keldermanairride.com/medium-duty/

One of the advantages which would be nice for my purposes is the ability to lower the truck to load items. Right now my steel bed is almost 4' high and that makes loading a 280 pound dirt onto the bed something of a hassle.

I don't intend to do much off-roading, that is what the dirt bike is for, not a rig that is 25' long and will weigh over 10K pounds when setup for travel. Generally the truck will be for getting me to the off-road area and only used off-road in emergencies (e.g., maybe retrieval of the dirt bike if it breaks). Otherwise it will serve as a base camp for me, myself, and I (and maybe a puppy dog).

 

[jesusgatos]

I am thinking that it must have been a control arm, or an anti-wrap bar of some nature.

That's what I'm wondering. Another option would be to build a four-link and then mount the springs on shackles at both ends, so the four-link would locate the axle and the springs would only be used for suspension. But then I guess the springs might be altogether unnecessary if you just used airbags as the primary suspension instead of as secondary suspension. As I understand it, the truck is already done/fixed and we're all just waiting to see how it got put back together (Jay included).

 

[Ford Prefect]

As I understand it, the truck is already done/fixed and we're all just waiting to see how it got put back together (Jay included).

That is Correct. They should be able to pick it up at any time, but I guess they are going to stay abroad a while longer.

I agree I'd like to see a few pics of the fix and say 100 or 200 of what you folks ah been doing lately. :sombrero:

They actually went to Bangkok about a month and a half ago. (give or take) and have been running around out there for the entire time the truck was being fixed. (He mentioned that a few pages back.)

 

[JRhetts]

Jay, ... Unless I missed it, you never reported back about the composting toilet. I am curious how it works for your family. How often do you have to empty it, how much composting material do you use, smell issues, etc.? Most of the builds I've read end up using a cassette toilet, so I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

While I am not Jay, I have used the same composting toilet he has for 8 months of full-time living. see the link below

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57461

 

[TomH]

While I am not Jay, I have used the same composting toilet he has for 8 months of full-time living. see the link below

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57461

Jay mentioned that he would get back to us on the question that was posted a bit earlier. That question, posted by me, is in regard to the system that separates liquid from solid, then drips the liquid on the tailpipe while hot, evaporating it away. I was inquiring about the buildup of residual salts and whether those salts and the uric acid are having any corrosive effect on the exhaust pipes. I notice that you allow the liquids to accumulate for a couple of days then dump them, so in this way that Jay's system differs from yours, I am most interested in knowing how well it has worked out.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Jay mentioned that he would get back to us on the question that was posted a bit earlier. That question, posted by me, is in regard to the system that separates liquid from solid, then drips the liquid on the tailpipe while hot, evaporating it away. I was inquiring about the buildup of residual salts and whether those salts and the uric acid are having any corrosive effect on the exhaust pipes. I notice that you allow the liquids to accumulate for a couple of days then dump them, so in this way that Jay's system differs from yours, I am most interested in knowing how well it has worked out.

I do not know about Jay, but a thought for you, TomH. You might be able to mitigate any possible concern about the rust if you put a liberal coat of 500+ degree paint on there. There are serveral paints made to paint an engine; if you use one to paint the pipe would that keep the salt from causing a problem?

I honestly do not know, but it sounded good in my mind...

 

[SChandler]

While I am not Jay, I have used the same composting toilet he has for 8 months of full-time living. see the link below

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57461

Thanks for the info. I'm intrigued by the concept, but the only report about them I'd found was a guy using one on a yacht. It's nice to have the perspective of overlanders with more than one person using it.

 

[RR1]

What is making it rock back and forth?

The storage water sloshing in the tanks?

You can see it swaying in this slow speed parking lot drive, even more amplified in the offroad testing.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJmMt0Ql8s"]YouTube - Eco Roamer visits Recycling Alternative for Biodiesel[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1MBdaHr4OA&NR=1"]YouTube - Overland Training with EcoRoamer[/ame]

 

[jesusgatos]

Whoa, that looks pretty bad. Dunno when those videos were made but sounds like they've made a lot of changes to the suspension since it was first built. Hope they get that sorted out. Shouldn't be too difficult to match the springs/shocks to the application. I had an old CJ7 that used to test about 10-15 different sets of leafsprings and shocks. All different manner of lift springs. Spring-over, spring-under, arched springs, flat springs, soft springs, stiff springs. And some of those setups were pretty sketchy. Sometimes figuring out what works is a process of elimination.

 

[RR1]

Whoa, that looks pretty bad. Dunno when those videos were made but sounds like they've made a lot of changes to the suspension since it was first built. Hope they get that sorted out.

I read Jay had the weight within the limits, but it shouldn't be swaying like that going that slow in the parking lot with stock Ford suspension if it was within the weight limit.

That and how much the frame is flexing in the off road sections, some flex is good, it looks like it is going to rip itself apart.

I'll probably being accused of being an armchair whatever, but I used to run heavy equipment for a living and hauled a lot of heavy machines and materials, water being one of them. Anyone who has driven heavy truck will tell you that Jay's truck is overloaded, and the are some design flaws which need to be addressed before he kills someone. 40'000 miles and no accidents, was a lucky 40K miles. Well it got to 40'001 then ripped apart. Seeing how that thing was acting at 5 mph(?), I wouldn't take it out of the parking lot, let alone trying to go around the World.

Unicats are big heavy campers and they don't sway, they do flex because of the pivot design, they surely don't keep swaying when the truck is stopped.
I am guessing there are no baffles in the liquid tanks on the F650?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g90kgPhvA4"]YouTube - UNICAT - promo video of OFF ROAD trucks[/ame]

 

[jayshapiro]

Overland Expo 2011

Hi Guys,

Just a quick note to say thanks to those of you who stopped by at the Overland Expo, it's always great to re-connect with so many of you we've met through this thread.

If you're still around, stop by today for a beer, some wifi and a chat. I'll be at the Muskoka Foundation booth all day Sunday.

Sorry that the EcoRoamer is not there this year. The truck is fine and built, but a family emergency in Thailand delayed our schedule and so we didn't have time to drive it out.

I will be heading out to CA to pick up the truck this month, and will post up lots of new pics then...

Cheers,
Jay.

 

[dzzz]

What is making it rock back and forth?

The Unicats move more than you would think is necessary when offroad. So I'm not sure that's a problem.
The second video makes me cringe. There's a reason professional offroad builders put two rear axles under a truck that long.

 

[RR1]

The Unicats move more than you would think is necessary when offroad. So I'm not sure that's a problem.
The second video makes me cringe. There's a reason professional offroad builders put two rear axles under a truck that long.

As you well know, the Unicats are built upon a pivot to promote flex so it doesn't rip the frame and camper cabin apart, plus the platform they use is much beefier, as they use Mogs, Man, Volvo heavy trucks, even so their boxes are much smaller than what is on the Ecoroamer.

The frame is stretched on the Ecoroamer, correct? As we can see that flexing and twisting. As I stated earlier, if the weight added was within the limitations of the chassis there wouldn't be issues with the stock suspension. What looks good on paper doesn't necessarily work in the real world.

I don't think suspension upgrades is going to solve the problems, either lighten the box, or put it on a heavier chassis. Only takes a couple weeks to get a CDL. Trying to bring too much stuff may be one of the main issues. May have to swallow some pride and go back to the drawing board.

 

[Allroader]

RR1

What is making it rock back and forth?

In the video you can see that the Truck drove over a curb or so with the rear Tire. That put the Truck into the rocking.
Since nobody knows when this Video was taken and how the setup was on the time.

dzzz Quote:

Originally Posted by RR1
What is making it rock back and forth?

The Unicats move more than you would think is necessary when offroad. So I'm not sure that's a problem.
The second video makes me cringe. There's a reason professional offroad builders put two rear axles under a truck that long.

Like dzzz already said, Unicats and all other Truck set up as Expo-Big-Rigs are made to flex. Their are serveral differnt ways to make that happen. But i short, the Camper moves indepently from the frame. Check out this Video, form a friend of mine.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVlrqK43LtE"]Youtube link[/ame]

The frame is stretched on the Ecoroamer, correct? As we can see that flexing and twisting.

Well streching a frame will take flex out of a Frame. Since the cut part, will be supported with extra supports.
The long wheelbase, will put more Flex back into the Truck. This is why large builders add the third axel to keep the wheelbase under control.

General rule for anybody out in a Jeep, Truck, Bike or Big Rig.
Build it Light, keep it Light and clean it out once and a while.