Eco-Roamer - F650 based Expedition Vehicle

[RR1]

Well streching a frame will take flex out of a Frame. Since the cut part, will be supported with extra supports.
The long wheelbase, will put more Flex back into the Truck. This is why large builders add the third axel to keep the wheelbase under control.

General rule for anybody out in a Jeep, Truck, Bike or Big Rig.
Build it Light, keep it Light and clean it out once and a while.

I dunno looks like the frame (not the camper body as I know it supposed to flex independent of the frame, maybe you missed my comment earlier?) was flexing, twisting, and getting a bit of bow to it, when it was cresting a rise. You can see the cab bow away from the camper body at 3:30 in the Overland Training vid.

That rocking back forth isn't good, I can see putting it on its' side real easy, especially if that vehicle is going to see off road.

Yep, keep it light, my rule of thumb is load it to roughly half of the vehicle's capacity.

In an unladen F650, you can see how stiff it is compared to one that is over loaded.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adikB0nJv5k"]YouTube - F-650 4x4 Six door pickup driving next to the road.[/ame]

 

[ultiMOG]

to RR1

re: cab flex..........did we forget that he has an air suspended cab? mayhaps that explains the unchecked bob-n-weave...

Yep. That's my first post..........back to lurking.....

J!

 

[kjp1969]

It seems like everyone's an expert, especially when it comes to criticism of a visionary.

Jay, don't feel you have to fight this fight down on the level of some of your critics. You've got more important things to do, and trip reports to write!

(other snarky comments removed in the interest of internet civility)

 

[ultiMOG]

I wasn't trying to be an expert...and certainly not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I think this project is awesome in so many ways, and respect the collaborative efforts to complete a project of this size (literally and figuratively). I learned a lot and have been inspired in my design process by many of the creative well executed solutions.

I just watched the videos and some seem to love to jump on the hate wagon, but it seems those with the criticisms could dispel much of their own conjecture by actually taking the time to read through the whole thread. (how's that for a run-on?)

I really don't mean any offense and I really enjoy the forum. Thank you to all who take the time to extensively document and share all the fantastic struggles in the massive adventure of well lived lives.

 

[RR1]

It seems like everyone's an expert, especially when it comes to criticism of a visionary.

Jay, don't feel you have to fight this fight down on the level of some of your critics. You've got more important things to do, and trip reports to write!

(other snarky comments removed in the interest of internet civility)

Not an expert, but that thing is sketchy. Not trying to be snarky, I have driven the road to and fro Jerome many times following large trucks, they handled the road just fine. That video is frightening to watch, clearly the truck is a handful, or lack of driving skill or both.

Even going down the pavement, visionary or not...the vehicle is unsafe, why defend that. What if it rolled when the suspension broke and killed someone? Would you still defend it? Wouldn't you rather read about them traveling into old age, than reading about their deaths because of equipment failure, which was pointed out early into "The Build".

Worshipping a person because they have a big truck and get to travel more than oneself is not healthly, that is what I am reading here in these pages. The celebrity worship is blinding some that there are some issues with the vehicle.

I don't know if I see Jay as a "visionary", it isn't like he is the first guy to go truck camping powered by veggie juice.

 

[RR1]

re: cab flex..........did we forget that he has an air suspended cab? mayhaps that explains the unchecked bob-n-weave...

Yep. That's my first post..........back to lurking.....

J!

You can see the sway via the front bumper, it is rocking back forth on its' chassis suspension (not the cab's)...poor dampening or something. Looks like too much weight to me.

 

[Spur]

I've been following this thread for a long time. These days, I almost dread getting a notice in my inbox. Although the issues raised are important and valid, I'm afraid people have forgotten about all the amazing things that have gone into this build. There are now pages and pages of criticism. I'm so impressed with Jay and all he's done, not just with this truck but with his values and commitment to service. I can't help but think how I would feel if a bunch of strangers were tearing apart my dream. But I'm probably not giving him enough credit. He's probably got a lot thicker skin than me.

 

[McZippie]

I've been following this thread for a long time. These days, I almost dread getting a notice in my inbox. Although the issues raised are important and valid, I'm afraid people have forgotten about all the amazing things that have gone into this build. There are now pages and pages of criticism. I'm so impressed with Jay and all he's done, not just with this truck but with his values and commitment to service. I can't help but think how I would feel if a bunch of strangers were tearing apart my dream. But I'm probably not giving him enough credit. He's probably got a lot thicker skin than me.

Being impressed with Jay's "values and commitment to service" has nothing to do with debating the construction of his Rig. This a forum of a lot of amateurs and many learn from these discussions.

The facts are, it has a sway problem and the rear spring broke. Jay's improvements hopefully will correct the problems.

Some believe that it's over-loaded for the platform or may have a other design flaws, and the sway and spring problems support those facts.

Nice thing about Jay, is that he shares truthfully all the good and bad about his Rig and doesn't try to varnish the facts. I enjoy the debate and believe that Jay, through his comments does too.

Looking forward to seeing the improvements and reading the debate that will follow.

 

[kjp1969]

Not an expert, but that thing is sketchy. Not trying to be snarky, I have driven the road to and fro Jerome many times following large trucks, they handled the road just fine. That video is frightening to watch, clearly the truck is a handful, or lack of driving skill or both.

Even going down the pavement, visionary or not...the vehicle is unsafe, why defend that. What if it rolled when the suspension broke and killed someone? Would you still defend it?

Like most of the people who have posted criticizing the truck, you're not an expert on truck design, never seen the truck in person, or talked tech with Jay, or driven it, or worked on it, but are still judging the truck, the driver and the design? The whole thread is full of people criticizing the "Eco" angle, the truck, Jay and his family and anything else they can get ahold of.

Here's a deal- Jay's doing something unique- No one else has scratch built a vehicle to take their young family around the world. He and his family are one-of-a-kind. Plus, he's laid it all out, warts and all, for us to learn by and be entertained. Why don't we all give Jay the respect he deserves as an actual do'er, and keep our place as watchers and commentators. Let's also let Jay work out the issues with his truck without attacking everything about him and his design, mkay?

 

[TomH]

With the state of politics today, many people believe that it has become acceptable to be uncivil. The internet and boards like this one allow an opportunity for unfiltered thoughts to just flow out. All that is in front of you is a screen. In an actual conversation, we normally are looking straight at another face, making eye contact with that other person. Our own statements are met immediately by changes in facial expression, tone of voice, posture of the body. I imagine that a whole lot of the stuff people are willing to type on these pages would not be spoken aloud if the writer were actually face to face with the person to whom the statements are being made.

This is not a board for discussion of things like politics, where feelings become raw and unkind. It is a place for expedition enthusiasts to offer and exchange ideas in a mutually supportive manner. I try to imagine that I am face to face with the person I am addressing. I visualize that person as being six foot eight, 300 pounds, wearing a Green Bay Packers jersey and a 2011 Super Bowl ring. I try to type on this page exactly what I would be willing to say in person. If I say more, just because I am hidden behind a computer screen, I am being a coward.

It is possible to offer, in a polite manner, a constructive critique, without being offensively critical. We live in a society that has become too uncivil and full of vitriolity. That kind of attitude is not necessary. One can disagree with another without being unkind. I would not do everything the way Jay has done, but I admire his ingenuity. I also greatly admire the manner in which he has turned the other cheek, maintaining a dignified gentlemanly demeanor throughout this entire thread, even when others have had very unkind things to say (and I am referring to older posts in relation to the name of the vehicle). Jay has been a model of a first class man. My hat's off to him.

 

[GeoScum]

The engineering skills and experience of some of the concerned people in this thread far exceeds yours or Jays. I don't believe there is a single person in this thread who actually owns medium duty trucks who is comfortable with Jay's build.

4 - A stock F-650 is rated at 27,000lbs. However, this is not a stock F-650. The front leaf spring packs have been completely replaced and uprated. The chassis frame was completely sleeved with L-Channels. The rear suspension leaf springs and shocks have been completely replaced and uprated. And the "should be duallies" tires are actually 345 super singles. All of which put the rating of the truck WELL above the 34,000lbs fully loaded that it currently weighs. Throughout this process, I have taken the safety and strength of the truck as the NUMBER ONE priority for the vehicle. Afterall, it is my family riding around in it, and I have a strong urge not to kill them on some random mountain road.

My experience has been with commercial straight trucks and cranes. I don't fully know the scope of work, true engineering and documentation that went into this particular truck. What I do know is that increasing the GVW of any truck can be exceedingly difficult, and much more involved than throwing heavier springs under a chassis.

 

[GeoScum]

Furthermore, while the laws are not typically enforced on private vehicles, laws regarding acle and tire loads are still applicable. If any accident occurs, it is quite possible that things could get sticky with the cops and complicated with the insurance companies. That did not happen in San Jose, but it still possible in other jurisdictions and areas.

 

[Terrainist]

The truck is/was overloaded, there is no debate. If the truck was emptied, had everything removed and was made as light as possible and it still handled like that then it would still be overloaded. Nothing makes a rig handle like that other than too much weight for what it is on, period.

And there is no excuse for a truck handling like that, ie: "that's a twisty, down hill road." I know that road, every other vehicle that drives on it that doesn't have serious handling problems has no problem staying in their own lane at a reasonable speed. If a vehicle is not capable of staying in its own lane then it should not be on the road. Duh?

Saying it is acceptable because the driver/owner is a touted "visionary" and it's a difficult road is garbage. It's negligence pure and simple. It is not "bashing" or "tearing apart someone's dream" to state the truth.

If someone had died from the owners/drivers negligence before the axle tore off then he would have rightfully been prosecuted via every avenue available by law if there is any justice in the world. And if someone in my family had died I would not stop until that happened. No one would or should do or expect any different.

Now, it is all a mute point. No one has died. The truck is getting worked on. Hopefully the owner has enough sense now, remains to be seen as he didn't before, to make that thing handle in a controllable manner under all reasonable conditions. Because if he doesn't and something bad happens, there is enough ammo on the net for any attorney in both justice and civil courts to keep him tied up for a decade defending himself, paying damages and even doing jail or prison time. It would be wise to make that truck rock solid and stop pretending at the expense of other peoples safety and lives, or I predict things will go very badly for someone with "vision" yet so short sighted they would endanger everyone around them.

 

[RPhil]

My experience has been with commercial straight trucks and cranes. I don't fully know the scope of work, true engineering and documentation that went into this particular truck. What I do know is that increasing the GVW of any truck can be exceedingly difficult, and much more involved than throwing heavier springs under a chassis.

How convenient of you to leave out the part where Jay mentioned the sleeving of the frame, which will definitely have added considerable structural stability.

With the state of politics today, many people believe that it has become acceptable to be uncivil. The internet and boards like this one allow an opportunity for unfiltered thoughts to just flow out. All that is in front of you is a screen. In an actual conversation, we normally are looking straight at another face, making eye contact with that other person. Our own statements are met immediately by changes in facial expression, tone of voice, posture of the body. I imagine that a whole lot of the stuff people are willing to type on these pages would not be spoken aloud if the writer were actually face to face with the person to whom the statements are being made.

This is not a board for discussion of things like politics, where feelings become raw and unkind. It is a place for expedition enthusiasts to offer and exchange ideas in a mutually supportive manner. I try to imagine that I am face to face with the person I am addressing. I visualize that person as being six foot eight, 300 pounds, wearing a Green Bay Packers jersey and a 2011 Super Bowl ring. I try to type on this page exactly what I would be willing to say in person. If I say more, just because I am hidden behind a computer screen, I am being a coward.

It is possible to offer, in a polite manner, a constructive critique, without being offensively critical. We live in a society that has become too uncivil and full of vitriolity. That kind of attitude is not necessary. One can disagree with another without being unkind. I would not do everything the way Jay has done, but I admire his ingenuity. I also greatly admire the manner in which he has turned the other cheek, maintaining a dignified gentlemanly demeanor throughout this entire thread, even when others have had very unkind things to say (and I am referring to older posts in relation to the name of the vehicle). Jay has been a model of a first class man. My hat's off to him.

Very well put.



I am looking forward to what Jay has to say on this matter.

 

[GeoScum]

The truck is/was overloaded, there is no debate. If the truck was emptied, had everything removed and was made as light as possible and it still handled like that then it would still be overloaded. Nothing makes a rig handle like that other than too much weight for what it is on, period.

And there is no excuse for a truck handling like that, ie: "that's a twisty, down hill road." I know that road, every other vehicle that drives on it that doesn't have serious handling problems has no problem staying in their own lane at a reasonable speed. If a vehicle isn't incapable of staying in its own lane then it should not be on the road. Duh?

After viewing that video, I would say that it is clear that the either the truck is overloaded, the tires are of criminally poor design or choice or the driver is incompetent. After thousands of miles driving a heavy straight, it should have been possible to drive that truck correctly

Saying it is acceptable because the driver/owner is a touted "visionary" and it's a difficult road is garbage. It's negligence pure and simple. It is not "bashing" or "tearing apart someone's dream" to state the truth.

If someone had died from the owners/drivers negligence before the axle tore off then he would have rightfully been prosecuted via every avenue available by law if there is any justice in the world. And if someone in my family had died I would not stop until that happened. No one would or should do or expect any different.

Now, it is all a mute point. No one has died. The truck is getting worked on. Hopefully the owner has enough sense now, remains to be seen as he didn't before, to make that thing handle in a controllable manner under all reasonable conditions. Because if he doesn't and something bad happens, there is enough ammo on the net for any attorney in both justice and civil courts to keep him tied up for a decade defending himself, paying damages and even doing jail or prison time. It would be wise to make that truck rock solid and stop pretending at the expense of other peoples safety and lives, or I predict things will go very badly for someone with "vision" yet so short sighted they would endanger everyone around them.

Exactly

How convenient of you to leave out the part where Jay mentioned the sleeving of the frame, which will definitely have added considerable structural stability

I didn't add that because it doesn't matter. Unless it is properly engineered and documented, it doesn't add to squat. Backyard engineering doesn't cut it