EPA Diesel Engine “Delete Tuning” Crackdown...Is It Here Now?

[Dalko43]

I've asked that question before. If there's a true, objective advantage to using diesel power to traverse difficult terrain, I haven't seen it mentioned.

That's not to say that diesel power doesn't have advantages over other options, or that someone shouldn't enjoy using it off-road. I just don't think having a diesel engine makes it any easier to drive over an obstacle.

Diesel engine is easier to drive off-road...but I suppose that is subjective. Having driven a good number of gasoline and diesel vehicles off-road, I’m comfortable making that claim.

Diesel provides better low end torque. Gasoline turbo’s offer similar, though not the same performance; they lose their mpg edge in situations where the torque is truly required.


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[plumber mike]

You’re right. $8k for the PW package is stupid when you can spend $15k to get the same thing without factory warranty.

Am I missing something? 2 lockers and a winch shouldn’t cost 8 let alone 15

 

[phsycle]

Am I missing something? 2 lockers and a winch shouldn’t cost 8 let alone 15

For those unable to log into ramtruck.com:

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You’re right. $8k for the PW package is stupid when you can spend $15k to get the same thing without factory warranty.

If you do much else to the truck the warranty is going to be null anyway.

If you want to watch the dealer squirm about warranty on a transmission/axle put oversize tires on it.

Even with all the pork they throw in with it the PW package isn't a bad deal though.

 

[roving]

Bumpers that are more heavy duty then the factOry tin. $1000 for the front. $1000 for the rear. 15.5k smittybilt winch $550 with synthetic rope. Wheels and tires $1700.

Truck has a cummins, limited slip rear axle. No lift. Paid $55k out the door in March brand new with $15k in discounts.

$59250 not including tax.

I can say I’m pretty happy with that price. I will hold onto the truck for at least 5 years. It’ll be paid off and still be worth a lot more than a gasser. I’ve had 3 diesel trucks and the depreciation is much better on a diesel than a gasser. At least where I live.

I can’t feel the weight of the front end being heavier. That’s because they use heaver springs and shocks for the diesel.

I love the torque off road. Endless power. I can crawl over obstacles with a lot of control. I don’t have to rev the engine hard to get into the power range.

I have a 4 cylinder turbo diesel defender. And it’s great at crawling. The low end torque compared to a gas engine of the same size is 100 times better.

Less parts to go wrong. Easier to fix on the trail. Waterproof.

I wouldn’t want to mess with a lot of modern diesels. Cummins are stupid simple. Power stokes give me anxiety when I look at the engine mess of stuff. I don’t have a lot of experience with Duramax engines.

In my opinion. It’s hard to beat solid axles and a diesel.


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[85_Ranger4x4]

I can’t feel the weight of the front end being heavier. That’s because they use heaver springs and shocks for the diesel.

Still more weight on the tires though which effects the balance of the truck on soft ground.

Less parts to go wrong. Easier to fix on the trail. Waterproof.

What do you fix on the side of the trail? Rebuild injectors? A quick turbo swap? Clean the EGR system? A trail side fix on something newer (gas/diesel) is not something for the faint of heart. Luckily engine/transmission wise they rarely give problems either way.

With the cheating power of a torque converter a modern gasser is going to be hard pressed to lack for torque. My ol' 5.4 has done me well for that. It puts out fairly respectable torque numbers for what it is too (350 lb-ft at 2500rpm) Pretty much everything has an automatic today...

With the cheating power of low range my 5.0 has done me well in my Ranger with a manual behind it. Low 2nd and low third are golden on a trail, the old 302 just idles along. Low first and drag the brakes if I have to when I get behind one of them cheating automatic trucks that goes really slow and can't stop to let him run away from me a bit. And that is with the NP205's lackluster 2:1 low range (early Cummins trucks ran the same t-case for what little it that is worth) I don't feel like I am short on power in high first but the thing just goes too fast in high. Reverse is geared kind of high too for high range when finesse is needed offroad.

Maybe I am not doing it right, I have never felt low on torque when offroading...

 

[roving]

How much time have you spent in a diesel off road?

Go try one for a while. Then get back in the gasser. You’ll notice the difference.

If the extra weight on the front tires is a huge deal you have the wrong tires. Or you don’t know how to adjust air pressure accordingly.


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[shade]

How much time have you spent in a diesel off road?

Go try one for a while. Then get back in the gasser. You’ll notice the difference.

If the extra weight on the front tires is a huge deal you have the wrong tires. Or you don’t know how to adjust air pressure accordingly.

Is there a noticeable difference? Sure. The engine is spinning slower for a given torque output.

How does lower engine rpm make a difference in clearing an obstacle?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Is there a noticeable difference? Sure. The engine is spinning slower for a given torque output.

How does lower engine rpm make a difference in clearing an obstacle?

To the very extreme it is more controllable, I had to have my stock 2.8 in 4low with the pedal planted to reach my 150lb-ft peak at at something like 3k rpm. It was a car engine (and not just any car but a Pinto/Mustang II engine) and it needed to wind out to get anything.

But most engines are not like that. What my 2.8 did running balls out in low (cleaning 235 MT tires) my 5.0 does chanting along at 1500rpm on the high side (but with 31's and a limited slip)

 

[shade]

To the very extreme it is more controllable, I had to have my stock 2.8 in 4low with the pedal planted to reach my 150lb-ft peak at at something like 3k rpm. It was a car engine (and not just any car but a Pinto/Mustang II engine) and it needed to wind out to get anything.

But most engines are not like that. What my 2.8 did running balls out in low (cleaning 235 MT tires) my 5.0 does chanting along at 1500rpm on the high side (but with 31's and a limited slip)

That's my point. Outside of the extremes, most any modern powertrain can continue to spin and overcome an obstacle.
As long as it can do that, does it matter if the torque is supplied by gasoline, diesel, or electricity?

 

[billiebob]

That's my point. Outside of the extremes, most any modern powertrain can continue to spin and overcome an obstacle.
As long as it can do that, does it matter if the torque is supplied by gasoline, diesel, or electricity?

Now yer talking, if torque from a stop is what matters nothing out performs an electric motor.

 

[Halligan]

Well this tuned into another gas vs. diesel thread. Had a few 5.9 Cummins back in the early/mid 2000's and they were great for the time. Now with all the emission stuff, the cost to enter the diesel arena, and price tag to fix it if it breaks has got me saying no thank you. If you do actually need the Diesel for towing the power from the factory is damn near double my old 305hp/555tq Cummins that I effortlessly towed my fifth wheel camper with.

The whole brodozer/Diesel Dave crowd has upset enough people that the government is moving on it. In my area brodozers are few and far between but I know in the more rural area's the fella's like them. I'm old enough now that if I see a coal roller with stacks or a ridiculously huge exhaust tip I just chuckle at how stupid it all really is. Kind of like Truck Nut's, somebody thought they were cool too at one point.

It's last call at the rollin' coal party......

 

[ttengineer]

I think we all agree that rolling coal is lame.

But back to the EPA and cracking down, personally I think it’s another government over reach. But like others have said, until the laws change or people in office change we will not have better options than grin and bearing.

At least until the boogaloo.


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[billiebob]

Well this tuned into another gas vs. diesel thread.

It's last call at the rollin' coal party......

Sometimes you have to look at what the rest of the world is doing and why. Countries and cities with real bad pollution see deisel as the the evil to the health of their cities. Places like India with the worst smog in the world have banned diesels and converted to Compressed Natural Gas. Cities like Paris have banned diesels from the city center. Obviously there is no reason to back or seek diesel powered vehicles. Diesel is on the way out. Either embrace the new technologies or be stuck with something no one will want in 10? years.

 

[plumber mike]

Sometimes you have to look at what the rest of the world is doing and why. Countries and cities with real bad pollution see deisel as the the evil to the health of their cities. Places like India with the worst smog in the world have banned diesels and converted to Compressed Natural Gas. Cities like Paris have banned diesels from the city center. Obviously there is no reason to back or seek diesel powered vehicles. Diesel is on the way out. Either embrace the new technologies or be stuck with something no one will want in 10? years.

Lets blame diesel emissions instead of the human ones. I guess it’s just easier than dealing with the actual problem.....overpopulation.