EV acceptance is peaking

[plainjaneFJC]

Ford Loses $36,000 On Every F-150 Lightning Sold - Fires 70% Of EV Workers, Ramps Up Gas Production

In a recent video, YouTuber The Electric Viking reports that Ford Motor Company has initiated a significant workforce reduction at its F-150 Lightning electric vehicle (EV) plant, cutting nearly 70% of jobs. This controversial move comes amid rising concerns about the company’s commitment to...

greenbuildingelements.com

 

[LRNAD90]

Wow, who'd have thought..

 

[Jupiter58]

And Toyota ceo says it will never pass 30% market share.

 

[llamalander]

Personally my acceptance of both really expensive vehicles and rolling software experiments is bottoming out.
It's probably worth saying, though, that in other parts of the world, EV's are not the fastest and most expensive things on 4 wheels, they're at the other end of the scale.
If US companies have no interest in making inexpensive EV's, I'm happy to enjoy some of the billions that China has lavished on it's EV companies to, effectively, lower the prices of the vehicles. If the PROC is content to loose tens of thousands of dollars on the vehicles that country produces, for my sake--let 'em in!
Our 27% Tariff isn't helping me, it's helping a bunch of chicken-tax eating manufacturers ignore a very real market and pretend they gave it a shot and no one wanted their overpriced first-goes. It's obvious they want neither competition or affordability, I'm not really ok with allowing /handing them that privilege and leaving us at the mercy of the world oil market.
I want a cheap electric van to do my work and charge at home. I don't need it to do more than 75 miles a day or more than 75 miles an hour and it can take 15 seconds to get there. Let me burn my gas on the crap dirt roads that touch the really great parts of this country. A bunch of solar panels can get me to work and back, but not to the places I dream of. Give me a real choice of what to drive where, and it will be clear that the desire for EV's is much higher than current acceptance indicates.
<<this is not a political or offensive post!>>

 

[Florida Native]

It is most definitely NOT peaking. There is just only so much demand for high priced vehicles and that’s the market in this country where EVs really started to get some traction. As technology improves, prices drop and manufacturers do a better job providing the correct size/price vehicle for the consumer you will see EVs flying off the shelves. It took 100 years for EV vehicles to get to this point, it won’t take another 100 before they dominate the market.

-Mike

 

[RDinNHand AZ]

I’d buy a small (first gen) Tacoma sized pickup if it had a reasonable sized cab like the later access cabs with small rear doors, a range of 250 miles, the ability to tow 5,000 lbs and carry 1,000. My price point would be low $30,000 out the door. Right now no one even makes an ICE truck that small.

Canoo’s proposed truck comes close at somewhat higher price but it may be years before they can clear their current order books for their van.

If we look at the planned EV products no one is proposing a truly small car or truck in the mid $20,000 AFAIK. Nissan had come close with the Leaf which had a limited range. It did get better in recent years.

This reminds me of the 1960’s when VW sold huge amounts of beetles and the American makers responded with terrible offerings if you remember the corvair, pinto, vega, gremlin etc.? This opened American's eyes to European and Japaneese offerings and changed the industry. China seems poised to do that again. Perhaps they will make a small truck.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

It is most definitely NOT peaking. There is just only so much demand for high priced vehicles and that’s the market in this country where EVs really started to get some traction. As technology improves, prices drop and manufacturers do a better job providing the correct size/price vehicle for the consumer you will see EVs flying off the shelves. It took 100 years for EV vehicles to get to this point, it won’t take another 100 before they dominate the market.

-Mike

You’ll never accomplish this goal with the UAW involved. Fain says “eat the rich” what he is really saying is screw the consumer.

 

[JaSAn]

It is most definitely NOT peaking.

It's estimated that 10% to 15% of the population are early tech adopters. EV's haven't come close to saturating that market.
It will be interesting to see if the problems people were having charging their EV's during the last cold snap will affect their desirability.

There is just only so much demand for high priced vehicles and that’s the market in this country where EVs really started to get some traction.

Manufacturers have to start with high margin products to pay back the money they invested in NRE (engineering costs). Otherwise it gets harder and more expensive to obtain financing for the next product development.

As technology improves, prices drop and manufacturers do a better job providing the correct size/price vehicle for the consumer you will see EVs flying off the shelves . . . it won’t take another 100 before they dominate the market.

As a product matures manufacturers have time to optimize and reduce costs. But I don't think they will be producing cars you would want to drive for the $20,000 to $30,000 price point. It will be more like $50,000 to $60,000, with trucks in the neighborhood of $100,000.

And it might not take 100 years but I would bet it will be around the end of the century.

 

[jkam]

A whole bunch of people recently learned that very cold weather isn't conducive for getting
an EV charged.
As commodities prices rise so will battery prices.
Look what it cost to replace a battery on a used Tesla.
Hertz is off loading most of it's EC fleet.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Look what it cost to replace a battery on a used Tesla.
Hertz is off loading most of it's EC fleet.

Battery prices are forecast to fall 40% in the next 12 months.
Hertz has a depreciation accounting problem due to new EV vehicle prices falling causing a devaluation of their fleet.

From an outsider's perspective I suggest that Ford's problem is just that..... Ford's problem. They were late in the game and not doing it well. It is not an EV problem.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[rruff]

Ford losing money on the Lightning is exactly what you'd expect of any new design. It takes a considerable amount of time and sales to recoup the investment in R&D, development, and production facilities. It's bean counting. If it never pays off, then Ford was stupid.

Tesla loses tons of money on the CyberTruck also...

Also... pickups are not the best application for EVs and it appears the hype got ahead or the tech for awhile.

 

[IdaSHO]

Like most things controversial...

People claim its either here or there. When the reality and resolution is a compromise.
Regardless of.GOV intervention and/or public opinion, the solution will be somewhere in the middle, as in hybrids, at least for the foreseeable future.

Eventually EV's will dominate the market out of necessity. Far beyond any of our lifetimes though....

 

[ThundahBeagle]

You’ll never accomplish this goal with the UAW involved. Fain says “eat the rich” what he is really saying is screw the consumer.

What??!

For everyone that says Toyota USA, Nissan USA and Honda USA treat thier employees well, please note that none of those companies did anything except wait to see what the UAW accomplished. Only after that did Toyota, Nissan and Honda make a move to raise pay.

Nothing says that electric vehicles aren't UAW made. Just that there isnt an ICE and they require fewer employees to make them. While then being more expensive.

Cant get a decent EV pickup at all, never mind for a price less than a well-appointed, fossil run, 2500 series at 70 or 80 grand. That is insane

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Ford losing money on the Lightning is exactly what you'd expect of any new design. It takes a considerable amount of time and sales to recoup the investment in R&D, development, and production facilities. It's bean counting. If it never pays off, then Ford was stupid.

Tesla loses tons of money on the CyberTruck also...

Also... pickups are not the best application for EVs and it appears the hype got ahead or the tech for awhile.

The reasons pickups are a great target to move to EV are threefold
.Trucks are a higher margin payoff for any car company in general
.emissions savings by taking v8 gas and diesel trucks is an attractive prospect and selling point
.easier to place a big, powerful skateboard batter under a truck than a small car

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I’d buy a small (first gen) Tacoma sized pickup if it had a reasonable sized cab like the later access cabs with small rear doors, a range of 250 miles, the ability to tow 5,000 lbs and carry 1,000. My price point would be low $30,000 out the door. Right now no one even makes an ICE truck that small.

Canoo’s proposed truck comes close at somewhat higher price but it may be years before they can clear their current order books for their van.

If we look at the planned EV products no one is proposing a truly small car or truck in the mid $20,000 AFAIK. Nissan had come close with the Leaf which had a limited range. It did get better in recent years.

This reminds me of the 1960’s when VW sold huge amounts of beetles and the American makers responded with terrible offerings if you remember the corvair, pinto, vega, gremlin etc.? This opened American's eyes to European and Japaneese offerings and changed the industry. China seems poised to do that again. Perhaps they will make a small truck.

Corvair. Pinto, Vega and Gremlin were 1970's, and a result of the gas shortages, gas prices, and emissions controls introduced in the early 1970's.

VW bug sold so many in the 1970's for the same reason. The ones from the 50's and 60's were sort of a result of our servicemen having driven them around Herzog base and enjoying the reliability and gas sipping. Plus they floated, for a little while.

Somewhere there is a VW ad that states that if Senator Edward Kennedy had driven a VW Beetle, he'd have become president