Chazz Layne
Administrator
It's back up and running for your viewing pleasure, sorry for the disruption.
Expedition overland article on not getting "Jeeping"
- Thread starter KJP
- Start date
It's back up and running for your viewing pleasure, sorry for the disruption.
DaJudge
Explorer
Maybe the objections stem from the term "Jeeping"? Not really sure. Some of his statements are actually ignorant; implying that those who choose to do those types of trails don't care about the natural world was ridiculous. Every group that uses our resources has its few people who are irresponsible turds! That doesn't mean that all of the people of that group are that way. I have come across hikers, bikers, and offroad motorists that treat the planet like their personal trash can.
That being said some the reactions to the article make me think the responders did not read it thoroughly. He prefaces his article with the following statement: “These are the trails on which you often find cut-up Toyotas, Land Rovers, and yes Jeeps, slowly crawling over big rocks for the sole purpose of saying they did”
So he doesn’t see that point of running a trail just because of the obstacles. I don’t either. I don’t go to offroad parks because I have no interest in just driving over obstacles. I drive off road to get to a scenic view, historical site, etc. I looked at that first picture in the article and thought it would suck to drive that! If there was something on the other side I really wanted to see I would do it, but I wouldn’t do it just for fun.
It is amusing how crazed some people get when they think you are attacking their beloved preferred brand. No matter what it is, if someone thinks you are bashing it a certain number of people will get their panties in a wad. He doesn’t even bash the vehicle. In fact he lists it in the sub-title as a reason to have high expectations for the day.
Also, nowhere does he imply he wanted a Five-Star Hotel or a KOA.
Bash him all you want for the ignorant trash and teenager statements, but don’t expose your own ignorance by going off on him for being a Jeep hater or wanting luxury accommodations!
That being said some the reactions to the article make me think the responders did not read it thoroughly. He prefaces his article with the following statement: “These are the trails on which you often find cut-up Toyotas, Land Rovers, and yes Jeeps, slowly crawling over big rocks for the sole purpose of saying they did”
So he doesn’t see that point of running a trail just because of the obstacles. I don’t either. I don’t go to offroad parks because I have no interest in just driving over obstacles. I drive off road to get to a scenic view, historical site, etc. I looked at that first picture in the article and thought it would suck to drive that! If there was something on the other side I really wanted to see I would do it, but I wouldn’t do it just for fun.
It is amusing how crazed some people get when they think you are attacking their beloved preferred brand. No matter what it is, if someone thinks you are bashing it a certain number of people will get their panties in a wad. He doesn’t even bash the vehicle. In fact he lists it in the sub-title as a reason to have high expectations for the day.
Also, nowhere does he imply he wanted a Five-Star Hotel or a KOA.
Bash him all you want for the ignorant trash and teenager statements, but don’t expose your own ignorance by going off on him for being a Jeep hater or wanting luxury accommodations!
I laughed.
libarata
Expedition Leader
Oh no you dint. u dun jus spitted on the holy monker o Jerp a derp!
Wow, I'm almost sorry I started this with my initial post 
- my apologies. Just to be clear I appreciate satire as well as the next person. What I was hoping for when I posted the first post was what I actually stated in the post "Moral is rather than criticizing let's educate - help folks to see things the way we do, and accept their choices and hope they join us to keep trails and back roads open for all." What I see from all you fine expo folks is pretty well the same from the comments - feel free to express your opinion and enjoy your passions for the sport and it is welcome, but be prepared to be criticized if you decide to lob a grenade rather than simply express yourself as having an opinion. I don't know how many times I read the article before I posted, but each time I came away with the feeling that the author was an elitist - and we don't need that perception in our chosen sport. We are all a community - my house may be a different color than yours but it doesn't mean you should look down your nose at it (unless of course there is trash all over the lawn). Which brings me to the trash - there article fully implied (in my opinion of course!) that "Jeepers" were litterers - and folks that I did not appreciate!
I own 2 Jeeps, one for harder trails and one for "overlanding". I also own a modified Tacoma for longer adventures. I also have an adventure bike (KTM 990) and a dirtbike. I also have a camper, a RTT and a regular tent. I have a diversity of interests, and enjoy overlanding, enjoy offhighway travel, and yes even occasionally enjoy limited rockcrawling. Does that make me a bad person - well from the way I perceived the article yes it does. It would have easy to write the article from the perspective of "I tried Jeeping and this is why I don't get it and this is what went wrong, but can appreciate that some will, and that having a diversity of interests serves to get more people to the table when it's time to fight to keep the backcountry open". Perhaps my expectations are too high.
And yes you may have noticed I have a low post count - I hope no one starts implying that I or anyone else is a web overlander based on web count. I just chose to read and not to post, and I chose to get out there instead of posting. Hope that clears the air - back to regular programming.
- my apologies. Just to be clear I appreciate satire as well as the next person. What I was hoping for when I posted the first post was what I actually stated in the post "Moral is rather than criticizing let's educate - help folks to see things the way we do, and accept their choices and hope they join us to keep trails and back roads open for all." What I see from all you fine expo folks is pretty well the same from the comments - feel free to express your opinion and enjoy your passions for the sport and it is welcome, but be prepared to be criticized if you decide to lob a grenade rather than simply express yourself as having an opinion. I don't know how many times I read the article before I posted, but each time I came away with the feeling that the author was an elitist - and we don't need that perception in our chosen sport. We are all a community - my house may be a different color than yours but it doesn't mean you should look down your nose at it (unless of course there is trash all over the lawn). Which brings me to the trash - there article fully implied (in my opinion of course!) that "Jeepers" were litterers - and folks that I did not appreciate! I own 2 Jeeps, one for harder trails and one for "overlanding". I also own a modified Tacoma for longer adventures. I also have an adventure bike (KTM 990) and a dirtbike. I also have a camper, a RTT and a regular tent. I have a diversity of interests, and enjoy overlanding, enjoy offhighway travel, and yes even occasionally enjoy limited rockcrawling. Does that make me a bad person - well from the way I perceived the article yes it does. It would have easy to write the article from the perspective of "I tried Jeeping and this is why I don't get it and this is what went wrong, but can appreciate that some will, and that having a diversity of interests serves to get more people to the table when it's time to fight to keep the backcountry open". Perhaps my expectations are too high.
And yes you may have noticed I have a low post count - I hope no one starts implying that I or anyone else is a web overlander based on web count. I just chose to read and not to post, and I chose to get out there instead of posting. Hope that clears the air - back to regular programming.
DEFENDERBEAM
strategic command
there's reasons why other forums exist that are a lot more harsh in comment delivery, but I still think a good heckle is warranted from time to time even on this family friendly site.
My comments are maybe the worst example on this thread, but I don't consider myself anonymous, nor would I be afraid to call someone out on being an elitist seeming jerk.
Regardless of their size. (Since the size threat was previously brought up).
Size and muscles are meaningless without technique.
My comments are maybe the worst example on this thread, but I don't consider myself anonymous, nor would I be afraid to call someone out on being an elitist seeming jerk.
Regardless of their size. (Since the size threat was previously brought up).
Size and muscles are meaningless without technique.
unkamonkey
Explorer
The thing is that we all need to do our part to keep our public lands clean.
When our family was out camping we always cleaned up our stuff, we also cleaned up the whole camp site.
We started doing the "Jeeping" thing in 1968. We always came back with more stuff in the Jeep than we started with.
When I was in Boy Scouts we did a 50/60 mile hike through a wilderness area. Every morning we spent 2 hours cleaning up the trash the hunters left, put it in burlap bags that the rangers came to pick up on horse back.
I've picked up numerous water bottles along a trail left by Mt. bikers or hikers.
A few years ago I decided to drive out to Pawnee National Grasslands after a golf tournament. For some reason I had 2 lawn and leaf bags in my Jeep. Someone had a Kegger out there the night before. They even left the trash can that held the keg(s). I spent 3 hours out there picking up all the trash, filled both bags and the trash can.
On motorcycle rides we stop for a rest, actually it is so you can walk around a bit. I pick up cigarette butts, bottle caps, candy wrappers, cans or bottles and put them in the trash.
My neighbor used to be a swim beach manager at a local lake. He used to watch parents change the 'nappy on their kids. It seems like walking 20' to the trash is too far. Dig a hole and bury it in the sand.
It's just the way I was raised, these things bother me.
It's not just people in 4X4's that leave trash.
When our family was out camping we always cleaned up our stuff, we also cleaned up the whole camp site.
We started doing the "Jeeping" thing in 1968. We always came back with more stuff in the Jeep than we started with.
When I was in Boy Scouts we did a 50/60 mile hike through a wilderness area. Every morning we spent 2 hours cleaning up the trash the hunters left, put it in burlap bags that the rangers came to pick up on horse back.
I've picked up numerous water bottles along a trail left by Mt. bikers or hikers.
A few years ago I decided to drive out to Pawnee National Grasslands after a golf tournament. For some reason I had 2 lawn and leaf bags in my Jeep. Someone had a Kegger out there the night before. They even left the trash can that held the keg(s). I spent 3 hours out there picking up all the trash, filled both bags and the trash can.
On motorcycle rides we stop for a rest, actually it is so you can walk around a bit. I pick up cigarette butts, bottle caps, candy wrappers, cans or bottles and put them in the trash.
My neighbor used to be a swim beach manager at a local lake. He used to watch parents change the 'nappy on their kids. It seems like walking 20' to the trash is too far. Dig a hole and bury it in the sand.
It's just the way I was raised, these things bother me.
It's not just people in 4X4's that leave trash.
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Jurfie
Adventurer
Well said, unkamonkey! I come from a seakayaking background (which is what led me to a Jeep: to get to remote inlets, launch sites and lakes) and I've always left campsites and beaches cleaner than I found them.
Unfortunately, it seems many people are pigs and don't consider the effect leaving trash behind has on the enjoyment of other users. I don't think its a case of educating the people who do it; I think it is a lost cause of upbringing. Those people won't change.
life_w_vagabonds
Explorer
A bit of topic drift, but something that has been on my mind:
I have a Jeep and honestly, I cant relate to the stereotypical Jeep owner. The Jeep crowd is a bit like the Harley crowd, if I may piss off another group. When I rode a VStrom I could not relate to them either, we had different interests and objectives. Expo has grown in the Jeep area, partly due to waning vehicle manufacturer support in the US. Post numbers in the Jeep section are almost to the Toyota level. With that there is more of a, "hold my beer while I try this" or "if you can read this turn me over mentality". I see bigger tires on shinier wheels and an emphasis on flare and mud application. I still love Expo, but I go to the Jeep threads less often.
I have a Jeep and honestly, I cant relate to the stereotypical Jeep owner. The Jeep crowd is a bit like the Harley crowd, if I may piss off another group. When I rode a VStrom I could not relate to them either, we had different interests and objectives. Expo has grown in the Jeep area, partly due to waning vehicle manufacturer support in the US. Post numbers in the Jeep section are almost to the Toyota level. With that there is more of a, "hold my beer while I try this" or "if you can read this turn me over mentality". I see bigger tires on shinier wheels and an emphasis on flare and mud application. I still love Expo, but I go to the Jeep threads less often.
LL247
Observer
Wow...after reading the article and jumping into the forum I was not anticipating that much outrage. I will however admit I was a little offended by it being a Jeep enthusiast. To date I've owned 1 CJ, 2 YJs, 3 TJs, and am on my 4th JKU so you can call me a fan of the Jeep brand. What offended me about the article was calling it the 'Jeep thing' which as many on here agree is totally missing the mark. I won't beat the dead horse, but there's an obvious difference between the love of a certain vehicle and a style or type of trail driving. I came from the article thinking the author believed all 'Jeep people' were rock-crawling, mud-bogging, cheap beer swilling cave men who rolled through nature toppling trees and climbing rocks while grunting with a trail of litter strewn behind them. The 'Jeep thing' has nothing to do with a particular driving style or what trails are conquered, it's merely a brand love that is shared by other enthusiasts. I didn't appreciate the general stereotype, especially in an overlanding forum more than anything.
Flagster
Expedition Leader
This
I always love to see how wound up the Jeep and LR peoples get over something as mundane as this article...criticize or poke fun and oh boy...let it rain...
I would like to see the numbers (can the portal IT staff run these?) as to how many threads like these (as a percentage of total)are started in the Jeep and LR sections compared to other brands...
Chazz Layne
Administrator
It's tough to narrow it down, but I'd bet it's close to 45%/45% Jeep vs. LR, with the remaining 10% scattered between the domestic trucks.
Toyotas have no soul, so they don't usually get all emotional about insults to their brand... :jump:
wow!!
we own 3 jeeps "two beaters" I wasn't offended at all. realized cordes really meant rock crawling. unfortunately he used the jeep terms.
I myself am not into rock crawling. but kudos to the guys who do there own crawler builds,welding,repairs and bodywork. takes some talent.
we are not jeepsters or overlanders or landy lovers. but travelers.doesnt matter if its in a rented 110,78 series or my own rig.
jm2c
kp
we own 3 jeeps "two beaters" I wasn't offended at all. realized cordes really meant rock crawling. unfortunately he used the jeep terms.
I myself am not into rock crawling. but kudos to the guys who do there own crawler builds,welding,repairs and bodywork. takes some talent.
we are not jeepsters or overlanders or landy lovers. but travelers.doesnt matter if its in a rented 110,78 series or my own rig.
jm2c
kp