Expedition Security: Firearm Recommendations and Suggestions

[+ d]

I have been shopping for a hand gun on and off over the last couple of years. After reading some of the posts in the "tightest situations" thread I have been reassessing my own security measures... I keep a mossberg 590 around the house but its a little unwieldy to take out, i'd like something smaller.

It seems like a 9mm Glock is kind of the default...cost is an issue for me so I am never sure what to believe when the gun dealers tell me what a bargain brand X is, obviously reliability is tantamount.

Clearly a firearm is a highly personal thing but I am interested in what you guys had to share as far as choosing/using/transporting a hand gun.

 

[LostSol]

Ive owned alot of firearms, and it is very personal, so all i can really suggest to you is to go and shoot a few different guns. Glocks are great but i personally dont like shooting them, feels like your holding a 2x4 IMHO. I have a sig245, and a couple of 1911's, you really have to figure out if the pistol will be carried on your person, and where, and also how much do you want to spend?

I could go on and on about guns if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me
Shawn

 

[goodtimes]

First I gotta say...check local laws regarding carrying/transporting weapons. You will find CA isn't very friendly on the matter.

But that aside, I continue to fail to see the appeal of a 9mm. The only advantage it has is the capacity (number of bullets) in a standard size frame. The problem is that the projectile travels too fast. There is a reason law enforcement agencies and the military are going BACK to the .45 acp after falling into the "more bullets is better" trap back in the 90's. It has to do with the amount of energy that the projectile will transfer into the target. A small diameter, fast moving, light weight projectile simply will not transfer as much energy as a larger diameter, slower moving, heavier projectile will. Why? Because the 9mm has a tendancy to over penetrate (read: come out the back side) of the target. The .45 isn't as likely to do this. (can you tell I'm a fan of the .45 acp?)

There are several rounds inbetween the 9 and the .45 that have proven a good compromise. Look into the .40 s&w, and the .357 sig. The thing I don't like about the .40, is that with it's really high chamber pressure, it developes one hell of a recoil considering it's size. This makes it harder to control for people who don't go out shooting very often (myself included). I don't recall if I have ever shot a .357 sig or not.....of course, I haven't really followed the firearms industry in....heck.....8 or 9 years...there may be more options out there that are suitable.....

But all things ballistically aside...you should be able to control the weapon of your choice. It doesnt' matter how many bullets it holds, or how much energy each of those bullets can transfer to it's target if you can't hit the target. I strongly suggest you find a local firing range that rents guns (many do...er...at least they used to), so you can "test drive" them. Find a model and calibre that you can control, and offers the ballistics you like, and go for it. Don't get caught up in the WWW trap of "I have such and such of a gun and it's the best there ever was and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot". Much like a car/truck/SUV, or a new mattress, or a new dog....what is right for one person may or may not be right for you.

 

[flyingwil]

I just recently got a Hi-Point 9mm for $100. They are a fairly cheap entry level firearm. So far I have put about 200 rounds with out an issue. I bought it used from a good friend. The main thing I was looking for was something that makes a bang, and caliber did not matter to me. My main concern is animals such as bears, when out with my wife and dogs.

I think your best bet is to go out and see what you like and see if you can afford it. Determine if you plan on carrying it in a holster, keeping it in your rig, ect... Then pick what works for you. It is all a matter of personal preference.

Wil

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Brian, I'm going to disagree with your first paragraph and agree with the second two. Overpenetration is more a factor of bullet design than velocity; in fact higher velocity usually reduces overpenetration since it promotes bullet deformation or fragmentation. All hardball pistol rounds in common defense calibers overpenetrate. I agree that with hardball ammunition the 9mm is a poor performer, and that's why the military is considering switching back to .45. Fortunately as civilians we have our choice of much more effective ammunition.

David, Brian is right on in that you should buy the most powerful caliber you can control. With modern hollowpoints, such as those from Corbon, a 9mm makes a fine defensive round, and if you can place its bullets accurately it will far outperform a poorly shot .44 Magnum. Another factor is ammunition cost. Practicing is the only way to ensure you can competently defend yourself if need be, and you won't practice if you can't afford lots of ammunition. The .45, 9mm, and .40 all can be bought cheaply in bulk; I like the Winchester white box hardball.

If you plan to shoot regularly you have a choice of many fine and reliable brands: Glock, Sig, and HK top my list. If you want a pistol you can leave in a toolbox for two years, then pull it out and expect it to perform flawlessly, a Glock is hard to beat. The Glock is also simple to field strip, and absolutely safe as long as you remember Rule Three: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

I think you'd do well with a Glock 17 (full size) or 19 (compact). Or try an HK USP Compact, which is probably as reliable as the Glock and more comfortable, if much more complex internally. I carry a Glock 32 in .357 Sig, which is a powerful defensive round but easy to control in the Glock. I've carried about everything you can name, including a beautiful Novak-customized Colt Commander in .45, but I keep coming back to Glocks for one reason: They work all the time.

Don't forget the factor most people overlook: In 99 percent of situations requiring a gun the mere display of the weapon is enough to defuse the situation. But if you draw a weapon you have to be prepared to use it.

Caveat here: I am neither a law enforcement officer nor a member of the military. I have trained for several years with the former instructor for the Pima County Sheriff's Department, and gained a huge benefit from his experience. But still just a civvie.

Hope this helps! Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[DaktariEd]

I think the most critical point here is what has been said a couple of times: you have to be able to control the weapon. A handgun will do no good and may do great harm if not under your full control.

I like the statement Jonathan made about cost of practice rounds. The cost factor is important. If ammo is too costly, you may not practice as much; you won't be as skilled, as comfortable, etc.

As far as weapon brand, I have both a Ruger .357 mag revolver and a Colt .45 cal 1911. Both are excellent, but both have a nice recoil (read, significant).

The Glocks are wonderful...most of my police/sheriff friends carry those. I have used a .40 cal at the range and the recoil is very minimal. Even my 22 year old daughter (who had never fired a handgun before) found the Glock easy to control.

So...do the test drives...see what works for you.
Take a class if needed...get comfortable with the handgun well before you actually may need it.

My 2 cents...
Ed :wavey:

 

[60seriesguy]

On expeditions in Venezuela I usually carried a .357 S&W revolver, SS with a 4" barrel. Thankfully I never had to shoot anybody, but did use it on plenty of snakes and used it once to scare a big jaguar that had been trailing us. Great gun, very stable, comfortable grip, and I dropped in rivers a couple of times with no ill effect after cleanup.

 

[Nullifier]

You know the (mm round was developed by the Germans not to kill but to wound. If I remember in the article I read on it the basic theory was that the small fast bullet point roughly pencil sized holes in an opponent. This would usually wound not kill or atleast not right away. It takes no one to secure a dead man but 4 soldiers to take care of 1 wounded. so if ya had 100 wounded soldiers 400 more wound be taken out of the fight. Now we know that the ratio is not really that great but still that was the point.

I carry Glock. Always have and will. The basic reason is that it will not fail or jam. Now there are alot of great guns on the market. I have sewveral others but my carries are glocks. I have been using a glock 9 for over 10 years. I also have a compact .40 that I like since it has alittle more hitting power but not as much kick as a .45 when shooting the compact gun.

I guess in the end however it doen't really matter though on caliber since most shoot outs happen with in 5'. My good friend carries a little .22 mag berrata. Be ex special forces as he says 2-3 shots just below an opponents belt will take them out the threat category real quick.

My suggestion is to go to a range that rents guns and shoot several models. Try to get one that feels good in your hand that will go along way toward control. Auto's are more slim and easier to conceal however a .357 revolver has great stopping power and you can shoot .38 ammo which is cheaper and less kick for training.

Good luck

 

[Pskhaat]

My defense/riding/expedition gun of choice is the lever-action 3030. It is smaller, light, easy to control, can be quickly brought into action, and is weighted for carrying unlike many rifles. It is also very easy to fit inbetween the front seats, or pack on a horse, etc, etc.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/leverguns.htm

As a handgun, I think I'd be able to do as much with a .22 as a larger caliber in terms of deterence. I personally like my 380 auto as it is IMO a very good cross between larger caliber and smaller carry weapon.

 

[goodtimes]

I carry Glock. Always have and will. The basic reason is that it will not fail or jam.

Not to be arguementative, but yes, glocks can and do jam. It is a mechanical device, there is ALWAYS the potential for failure. No device is exempt from this, I don't care who made it or how robust the design is. My 14 year old Ruger kp90 (.45acp) has never jammed...but that doesn't mean it can't or won't. (btw, I'm not a huge fan of this weapon....unless of course SRC has made some improvements in the past 15 years...assuming of course that this model is even being produced at this point).

For those who are concerned (and rightfully so) about the cost of ammunition for practice...consider hand loading. Years ago, I could load a .45 acp for 10 cents (not including my time). It would cost me 25 cents for each round of commercial ammunition. I was literally saving 15 cents every time I pulled the trigger. With a initial investment of less than $150, pulling the trigger ~ 250 times per month, it took me about 4 months to recoup my investment. From there on out, it was all money left in my bank account instead of someone elses. You also get the benefit of loading some rounds that work well for your chosen weapon and your own abilities. For example, I keep my .45 loaded with some 185 grain speer gold dots backed up with about 5 grains of ....uh...I believe red dot....(it has been probably 10 years since I loaded them....). Through experimentation, I found this combination was very accurate (compared to other loads I tried), and the recoil was lighter than the 230 grain hardballs, making it more controllable and predictable *for me and my weapon*. Shooting commercial ammunition I probably never would have found this combination.....

 

[goodtimes]

I personally like my 380 auto as it is IMO a very good cross between larger caliber and smaller carry weapon.

I'm actually considering a 380...I have a hard time concealing a large frame pistol...the whole shorts and a t-shirt thing don't contribute to hiding a full sized pistol very well.....

 

[IggyB]

Those of us in Canada have very few options.

This is one of them. Winchester defender, pistol grip.

 

[calamaridog]

David,

In CA, you can have a loaded firearm in your camp. Obviously, you should not brandish the gun and scare all the kiddies. Transporting the firearm to the camp must be done in accordance with State Law, i.e. unloaded and locked up and the ammunition stored separately.

I would be happy to arrange for you to shoot a variety of pistols at a local range (or Jacumba). I have a friend who can bring "one of everything" and he is a firearms instructor for a Federal Law Enforcement agency. I'm no novice myself

Personally, I would never trust my life to anything smaller than 9mm and would seriously consider .40.

As previously stated, GLOCK, SIG Sauer, and HK all make fine firearms. GLOCK makes a very rugged, reliable, and functional firearm.

 

[calamaridog]

Ruger makes a fine revolver but their auto pistols leave much to be desired.

 

[Ursidae69]

I carry a Ruger P89 9mm. Have had it since I was 20. I may not be a very good shot (ask Goodtimes ) but with 15 rounds per clip, I'll eventually hit the target.

The carry laws are complicated, when I got outside of AZ or NM, I often don't take it. I've been pulled over in both NM and AZ with the gun holstered in the glovebox. Both times I told the officer first thing and they were cool. In AZ they just had me stand next to them at their car and in NM they didn't care, just said stay out of the glove box. If I do that in California, I go to jail as a criminal, that is whacked.

Might be off topic, but I think Calimaridog is a law officer right? What is your take on carry laws as an officer? Should they be consistent between states?