Expedition Security: Firearm Recommendations and Suggestions
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calamaridog
Expedition Leader
David,
We can put together a shoot sometime in the next couple months. I'll make sure we have many different calibres and manufactures to choose from.
The benefit to having my buddy along is his expertise at training. I'm a fair shot but not an experienced instructor. There is a huge difference in being competant with your own gun and being able to properly instruct someone else.
We can put together a shoot sometime in the next couple months. I'll make sure we have many different calibres and manufactures to choose from.
The benefit to having my buddy along is his expertise at training. I'm a fair shot but not an experienced instructor. There is a huge difference in being competant with your own gun and being able to properly instruct someone else.
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
my personal choices are as follows:
1. AR15 or clone w/ an AimPoint CompM (I use a BushMaster V-Match flattop w/ standard handguard)
2. Berreta FP1201 w/ SureFire 6P forearm light
3. Glock 23 for "normal" concealed carry, with a behind the hip holster w/ concealing shirt or jacket, or carried in a ****** bag (fast action gun) for the PC folks
4. S&W 442 for deep concealed carry (ankle rig or pocket carry)
Why those choices???
1. A tactical carbine is easy to handle, is relatively powerful, and can be used from 0 to 300M with good accuracy. The Aimpoint w/ 4MOA dot allows me to get on target extremely fast, yet will still allow for precision shot placement at longer range. With lightweight varmint bullets, (40, 45 grain) home protection use is viable. These rounds will not easily over penatrate - they break up on light weight materials like drywall or wall studs.
2. A 6-1/4 pound 12 guage w/ 3 rounds of 00 followed by 2 rounds of slug for general outdoor protection or 5 rounds of slugs for dangerous game protection (think Salmon season). There is a serious problem w/ over penatration w/ either of the above loads in a home use situation. As a rule I use #4 buck as a home defense load.
3. Glock 23 - 13 rounds standard mag for CCW, plus a 15 round G22 mag as a spare. If the situation can't be solved with that, your in serious doodoo. Sized between the G22 and G27, it offers good concealability with a large capacity magazine. I prefer to carry in a MadDog behind the hip Kydex holster. Malfuntions are rare, but generally are easily solved by the tap, rack, flip method.
4 The good ol' alloy S&W 442. I consider the 38 Special and 380 ACP to be the minimum effective rounds for CCW carry. A DAO revolver is still an effective fighting handgun if you train with itand understand how to solve them. Simple to use, a simple mafluntion just requires another pull of the trigger to get it going again. The worst possible malfunction is getting a case stuck under the extractor, but with practive it can be cleared quickly. I carry a speed strip or a two by two pouch for reloading. A full speed loader is also an option, but the other two allow you to keep the gun full without dumping out loaded rounds.
I've been fortunate to live in the Prescott, AZ. area. We are home to Col. Cooper's GunSite, Chuck Taylor's ASAA and Mark Fricke's AFTT. All top notch schools, and I've had the opportunity to train with all of them over the years. Chuck Taylor's instruction was perhaps the most informative for me, and I use his techniques and ideas the most.
enough rambling...
1. AR15 or clone w/ an AimPoint CompM (I use a BushMaster V-Match flattop w/ standard handguard)
2. Berreta FP1201 w/ SureFire 6P forearm light
3. Glock 23 for "normal" concealed carry, with a behind the hip holster w/ concealing shirt or jacket, or carried in a ****** bag (fast action gun) for the PC folks
4. S&W 442 for deep concealed carry (ankle rig or pocket carry)
Why those choices???
1. A tactical carbine is easy to handle, is relatively powerful, and can be used from 0 to 300M with good accuracy. The Aimpoint w/ 4MOA dot allows me to get on target extremely fast, yet will still allow for precision shot placement at longer range. With lightweight varmint bullets, (40, 45 grain) home protection use is viable. These rounds will not easily over penatrate - they break up on light weight materials like drywall or wall studs.
2. A 6-1/4 pound 12 guage w/ 3 rounds of 00 followed by 2 rounds of slug for general outdoor protection or 5 rounds of slugs for dangerous game protection (think Salmon season). There is a serious problem w/ over penatration w/ either of the above loads in a home use situation. As a rule I use #4 buck as a home defense load.
3. Glock 23 - 13 rounds standard mag for CCW, plus a 15 round G22 mag as a spare. If the situation can't be solved with that, your in serious doodoo. Sized between the G22 and G27, it offers good concealability with a large capacity magazine. I prefer to carry in a MadDog behind the hip Kydex holster. Malfuntions are rare, but generally are easily solved by the tap, rack, flip method.
4 The good ol' alloy S&W 442. I consider the 38 Special and 380 ACP to be the minimum effective rounds for CCW carry. A DAO revolver is still an effective fighting handgun if you train with itand understand how to solve them. Simple to use, a simple mafluntion just requires another pull of the trigger to get it going again. The worst possible malfunction is getting a case stuck under the extractor, but with practive it can be cleared quickly. I carry a speed strip or a two by two pouch for reloading. A full speed loader is also an option, but the other two allow you to keep the gun full without dumping out loaded rounds.
I've been fortunate to live in the Prescott, AZ. area. We are home to Col. Cooper's GunSite, Chuck Taylor's ASAA and Mark Fricke's AFTT. All top notch schools, and I've had the opportunity to train with all of them over the years. Chuck Taylor's instruction was perhaps the most informative for me, and I use his techniques and ideas the most.
enough rambling...
zimm
Expedition Leader
heres a study on sizes. the the top two Ruger (SA) and Tarus (DA) are in 45 long colt. i believe they are much better camp gun setup than a 45 auto being they are reliable low pressure revolvers with the same ballistics as the 45 auto. the lower right is a 38/357 J frame smith. a good variety of defensive bullets, but lumpy on the back. the lower left is a Kahr Arms PM40 .40 cal. this gun is the shiznit. good power, outstanding reliability, easy shooting, and the most comfortable gun i ever carried. i would recommend anybody looking for a defensive gun give this baby a try out. of course, they just came out with a PM45. soooo....
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calamaridog
Expedition Leader
zimm said:
I'm going to get a PM40 soon. I can't hardly wait:elkgrin:
offroad_nomad
Adventurer
My home computer died and I've missed out on all this wonderful discussion. Many good, informative posts and I'd like to add my .2 cents. My daily carry handgun for the last 12 years has been a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) and I also carry a Sig P229 as well.
David, sorry for the stupid question, but have you owned a handgun before or shot a friend's handgun? Even if it's been a while since you last shot a handgun, I'd suggest you find a local range that rents handguns and rent several types to see and feel how they fit in your hands.
Also, I'd suggest if you haven't done so yet, look into whether the county sherrif is a friendly-sort that will issue/approve a concelded carry (CCW) permit for you. I've heard horror stories that it's difficult to get one if you're not from Hollywood or well-known.
Definately check out the local restrictions regarding firearms in state parks in California. You won't be able to carry or transport a firearm in any national park.
Regards.
David, sorry for the stupid question, but have you owned a handgun before or shot a friend's handgun? Even if it's been a while since you last shot a handgun, I'd suggest you find a local range that rents handguns and rent several types to see and feel how they fit in your hands.
Also, I'd suggest if you haven't done so yet, look into whether the county sherrif is a friendly-sort that will issue/approve a concelded carry (CCW) permit for you. I've heard horror stories that it's difficult to get one if you're not from Hollywood or well-known.
Definately check out the local restrictions regarding firearms in state parks in California. You won't be able to carry or transport a firearm in any national park.
Regards.
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calamaridog
Expedition Leader
offroad_nomad said:
I've got him covered. We'll have many types and calibres to choose from when we take him out.
offroad_nomad said:
Not going to happen in San Diego County. Very few of the Sheriff's in CA will issue a permit to a regular citizen.
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
erin said:
Crawler 976
When did you last train with Taylor? I have always wanted to attend some of his coureses. Have you had any experience with Louis Awerbuck when you trained at Yavapia? His tactical shotgun expertise is very intersting.
My ASAA classes with Chuck were back in 1994, 1995. All were 2 day classes with 200 to 600 round shot per course. Started with Basic Pistol, CCW, Intermediate, Tactical, and finished with a night time class on low/no light Tactical.
Shotgun and Carbine were from AFTT.
My two CCW renewal classes have been out at GunSite (even tho it's not required, I take the full 16 hour class over - I get more range time with instruction that way)
I've meet Louis at a local gun store, but haven't had the privilage to train with him.
mutineer
New member
LateNate
Adventurer
How is having a gun and crossing boarders? I would think to bring one, but I would imagine it would be difficult to cross boarders with it. It seems it would bring more trouble there than help when the situation needs it.
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
I wonder what a person might be afraid of that makes them carry a gun?
Snakes!? Come on they are beautiful creatures that should be photographed not shot.
Big Cats? Same thing....
Bears? Same thing....
Wolves? Same thing....
Gangsters? Unlikely you will win, you are better of just giving them what they want. Or try making friends with them, not all gangsters are bad people!
Bandits? Um do we have bandits in the USA? Good luck carying a firearm in another country. Unless you know locals you can't get your hands on one. Try to take yours and you will end up in jail fast. Not to mention you are not going to survive if you pull out your hand gun while a bunch of guys are robbing you holding AK47s!
Leave the guns at home and or take them hunting.
Buy some bear spray, it will stop anything and everything that you might fear and it won't kill it which may very well result in you going to prison. Killing not only a human being but a bear or large cat can end you up in jail with a hefty fine. Bear spray in a big can has a 40ft+ range. To close for you? To bad, the bear gets to live and you stay out of jail!
Snakes!? Come on they are beautiful creatures that should be photographed not shot.
Big Cats? Same thing....
Bears? Same thing....
Wolves? Same thing....
Gangsters? Unlikely you will win, you are better of just giving them what they want. Or try making friends with them, not all gangsters are bad people!
Bandits? Um do we have bandits in the USA? Good luck carying a firearm in another country. Unless you know locals you can't get your hands on one. Try to take yours and you will end up in jail fast. Not to mention you are not going to survive if you pull out your hand gun while a bunch of guys are robbing you holding AK47s!
Leave the guns at home and or take them hunting.
Buy some bear spray, it will stop anything and everything that you might fear and it won't kill it which may very well result in you going to prison. Killing not only a human being but a bear or large cat can end you up in jail with a hefty fine. Bear spray in a big can has a 40ft+ range. To close for you? To bad, the bear gets to live and you stay out of jail!
Fireman78
Expedition Leader
I'm not giving any opinions on what anybody else should carry, after the last discussion I got into about that,, nor will I ask certain pacifists why they have the viewpoint that ALL GUNS ARE EVIL and all people and all of Earths creatures are happy loving fuzzy bunnies. HOWEVER.. I, me, myself, carry a Springfield XD-M 9mm. 19 round capacity, compact gun with a match barrel and a tac-light.. But that's just me. This opinion is not to be construed as anything but just that. :sombrero: