Expedition Security: Firearm Recommendations and Suggestions

[mountainpete]

Not the exact same model, but this is what I carry in the truck:

Great for those annoying squirrels that like dropping pine cones on my tent early in the morning
:gunt:

 

[IggyB]

Very nice Iggy...........

I've admired those for years! I want one!

I used to consider.....what if you loaded every other round with a SLUG!

Have you ever shot a 12 gauge slug at an old water heater at a dump?! It makes a hole the size of a cannon ball!

In upstate New York.....you can't hunt deer with a rifle. It's either shotgun's with slugs or handguns. I used to go out with my ex father in law.....some great times there.

When going camping I load it with buckshot - OO and slugs. The remington 870 with the full stock and 18 3/4" barrel gets the same treatment.

The pistol gripped Defender will hurt your wrist something fierce if you fire off 7 slugs and buckshot. But it's compact and has that wonderful sound that the slide makes when you chamber a round. In gunspeak it says "No, fawk YOU":archaeolo

In most states and Canada you should be OK with a shotgun almost anywhere you go exploring. Handgun can be dicey in some states.

 

[calamaridog]

Might be off topic, but I think Calimaridog is a law officer right? What is your take on carry laws as an officer? Should they be consistent between states?

This is a "States Rights" issue and I believe the majority of the citizens in a state should decide if their state will be a "right to carry" state.

I'm not fond of overly strict laws in CA but it seems to be what the majority of the people here want. You have to apply to the local Sheriff for a CCW and almost none of them will issue a permit

Personally, I believe that a law abiding citizen should have the "right to carry".

I CA you can carry at home (campsite is a temporary home) or in your business, just not out in public, your car, etc.

 

[datrupr]

I carry a Ruger P89D 9mm with 3 15 round mags. I havve had this gun for over 10 years now, have fired it a lot, and have had no troubles with it, I think it malfunctioned on me once at the range, and that was my fault, due to not having cleaned it, and the mag I had in it was also dirty, causing a malfunction. Generally, I clean my guns after firing, there was just one time when I did not, and that was the result. My fault, not the gun.

 

[asteffes]

Look at www.packing.org for information on conceiled carry laws in each state. It's a complex issue, but one that is made a bit more convenient by states that reciprocate carry rights with other states. Sadly, California is involved in no such reciprocity, but many others are.

Regarding which firearm you should purchase, no one can really answer that for you. You should go to a range and try a variety of weapons and calibers. *Everyone* has an opinion on what "the best" firearm is, but it's rediculous how many of those opinions are founded on fluff or speculation. Caliber doesn't matter if you are not comfortable with the weapon, or if you do not have any form of self defense training. There's more to it than the weapon, caliber, ammunition, etc. that you choose. If you aren't trained to use them properly, and if you don't equip yourself with the right skills and mindset to defend yourself, it doesn't matter what you chose - it won't do the job.

The caliber wars will never, ever end. That is why there are so many to choose from. 9mm, .40 and .45 will all do the job with proper shot placement. This whole argument has been re-hashed countless times on countless forums, mailing lists and locker rooms. Really, it doesn't matter. Learn to shoot the one you feel the most comfortable with and forget about all the ballistics debate. They will all work, but only if the round finds the target.

That said, any weapon from a well-known, quality manufacturer and ammunition from a quality source are going to be perfectly fine choices. But you must find what works *for you* and not base your choice on what anyone on the Internet suggests you buy.

 

[Scott Brady]

I do carry, but only when Stephanie and I travel alone. Just me, or with a group, the gun stays at home.

I do not think it appropriate to make a safety decision for an entire group of people.

The most effective self defence weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. This has been proved beyond debate. 5 rounds of OO buck in a tactical shotgun will give you the best chance of not only surviving a gun fight, but it never starting in the first place. A pump shotgun chambering a round speaks beyond language barriers.

For a handgun, I prefer and use the .45 ACP HK USP. Weapon of choice for the special forces and extremely accurate. I have big hands, so the large frame fits me well. It is a tactical weapon and designed as such. The downside is the cost, and will not fit people with small hands.

Make sure you are very accurate and comfortable with the gun you choose. Handling and shooting should be second nature, or you are better off leaving it at home...

 

[Mike S]

Interesting and popular topic.

I am a dedicated bird hunter. Have been shooting and qualifying with various firearms since childhood. I often carry guns (typically shotguns) in my truck when traveling throughout the Western US.

Seems to me that you need to be very clear on a couple of things when considering a firearm for personal defense...

1. If you are threatened - seriously - how would you respond? It is always better to run from conflict rather than confront it. Can (would) you pull the trigger on someone who is threatening you?

2. Do you have any idea what would happen AFTER you pull the trigger? If you kill someone, you are likely in deep poop. If you simply wound them, you are likely in deep poop. Remember that determination of self defense is after the fact, subject to results of an investigation, and interpretation by law officers, District Attorneys, and Judges. There WILL be consequences.

3. If you are considering defense against animals, there are very few animals that will seriously threaten you. If they do, you are probably going to be in a sleeping bag, or waders, it may be dark, and the situation is going to be really stressful. A hand gun is not the best choice for this purpose, unless you are very well trained and practice a lot. A shotgun is much better - especially at close range.

4. State laws on possesion of firearms (as previously discussed) vary widely. If you are stopped and present probable cause you may be searched without giving permission. You may be found in violation and cited or arrested.

5. When you pick up a gun, the confrontation changes. You may be required to actually use it. Food for thought.

That said, there are good alternatives for firearms intended for self defense against people and animals. I have three short arms which I carry (or not) depending on the situation I expect to meet...

a .22 caliber stainless S&W kit gun. Very handy, rust proof, and good for use on camping and fishing trips. Excellent for snakes, and for potting grouse.

A Colt 1911 80 series Officer's Model in .45 ACP. This is a small carry gun, and I can hit with it out to about 25 yards. If I ever had to use it, I expect that it would be deployed at less than 10 feet.

A .44 Magnum S&W 629 Mountain Gun. This is a serious gun, and would likely turn most people/animals - provided they were actually hit. I have carried it in Alaska and the Western US. I do not carry it while actually hunting, since I have a shotgun in my hands, and that is a superior weapon.

My two cents.

Mike S

 

[UncleChris]

For a handgun, I prefer and use the .45 ACP HK USP. Weapon of choice for the special forces and extremely accurate. I have big hands, so the large frame fits me well. It is a tactical weapon and designed as such.

Good call Scott, the HK USP 45 is my weapon of choice.

I only tend to take it to the range, I do not carry it on trips.

 

[asteffes]

I prefer the Glock 22 in .40. Works well for me.

Chris, we should go to Reed's sometime.

 

[Ursidae69]

Interesting and popular topic.

I am a dedicated bird hunter. Have been shooting and qualifying with various firearms since childhood. I often carry guns (typically shotguns) in my truck when traveling throughout the Western US.

Seems to me that you need to be very clear on a couple of things when considering a firearm for personal defense...

1. If you are threatened - seriously - how would you respond? It is always better to run from conflict rather than confront it. Can (would) you pull the trigger on someone who is threatening you?

2. Do you have any idea what would happen AFTER you pull the trigger? If you kill someone, you are likely in deep poop. If you simply wound them, you are likely in deep poop. Remember that determination of self defense is after the fact, subject to results of an investigation, and interpretation by law officers, District Attorneys, and Judges. There WILL be consequences.

3. If you are considering defense against animals, there are very few animals that will seriously threaten you. If they do, you are probably going to be in a sleeping bag, or waders, it may be dark, and the situation is going to be really stressful. A hand gun is not the best choice for this purpose, unless you are very well trained and practice a lot. A shotgun is much better - especially at close range.

4. State laws on possesion of firearms (as previously discussed) vary widely. If you are stopped and present probable cause you may be searched without giving permission. You may be found in violation and cited or arrested.

5. When you pick up a gun, the confrontation changes. You may be required to actually use it. Food for thought.

That said, there are good alternatives for firearms intended for self defense against people and animals. I have three short arms which I carry (or not) depending on the situation I expect to meet...

a .22 caliber stainless S&W kit gun. Very handy, rust proof, and good for use on camping and fishing trips. Excellent for snakes, and for potting grouse.

A Colt 1911 80 series Officer's Model in .45 ACP. This is a small carry gun, and I can hit with it out to about 25 yards. If I ever had to use it, I expect that it would be deployed at less than 10 feet.

A .44 Magnum S&W 629 Mountain Gun. This is a serious gun, and would likely turn most people/animals - provided they were actually hit. I have carried it in Alaska and the Western US. I do not carry it while actually hunting, since I have a shotgun in my hands, and that is a superior weapon.

My two cents.

Mike S

This has been a great thread, and Mike S's point about whether you really want to carry a gun is important. If you cannot deal with the consequences of killing someone you shouldn't even own a gun much less carry one. My 9mm only goes with me on trips where I am alone, no group trips, and in areas where the probability of a problem is higher. Like near the Mexican border with illegal drug traffic. One exception was when I went to the Exp Portal Rally because Goodtimes and I met to go shooting beforehand. During the event, the 9mm was locked up and unloaded.

Also, to Mike S, I have yet to meet a snake that needed killing. However, to someone not trained, moving a rattlesnake out of camp is dangerous and shooting it may be justified. If I'm there, come get me! :elkgrin:

 

[calamaridog]

I am allowed to carry but I seldom do. If I have to travel to a "high crime" area where my "clients" frequent, then I am much more likely to carry.

I always carry on trips and I have both mounted and portable lock boxes.

I always recommend people shoot a variety of weapons before making a selection.

HK guns are VERY high quality but I'm not a fan. All shooters will find they prefer the feel of some models to others.

I co-worker of mine helped design the HK USP SOCOM (Mark 23, Mod 0).

 

[kevin]

Wow, it seems that everyone here has a gun. Perhaps gun manufactuers should advertise with four wheel drive and off road publications! I will throw in my 2 cents. Because I hunt I have a drawer in my rear storage system (locking) where I store/transport rifles. When I am just offroading/camping I keep a Mossberg M590A1 military spec 12 gauge. It has 8 round capacity, with four more rounds available in a speed feed stock. It also has a light. As scott said nothing carries a greater intimidation factor. I also have liscenses to carry concealed in my home state of Oregon as well as my neighboring state of Washington. I frequently carry a Glock 22 (.40 cal), high capacity mags, laser.
I like them for many of the same reasons others have stated. Reliability, accuracy, durability, simplicity, aftermarket support. I prefer guns with no hammer for concealed carry. They tend not to poke you or snag on draw.

 

[Nullifier]

Not to be arguementative, but yes, glocks can and do jam. It is a mechanical device, there is ALWAYS the potential for failure. No device is exempt from this, I don't care who made it or how robust the design is. My 14 year old Ruger kp90 (.45acp) has never jammed...but that doesn't mean it can't or won't. (btw, I'm not a huge fan of this weapon....unless of course SRC has made some improvements in the past 15 years...assuming of course that this model is even being produced at this point).

yea no need to have contest. You are correct all things mechanical can fail or jam. I am just saying that the Glock because if it's simplistic design is as full proof as they come. I have run about 20,000 rounds through that Glock 17over the years. I actually used to shoot steel challenge, pin, and action matches with it. I didn't do it to win I did it to train incase one day... well you know. I could actually clear a 5 pin table in an average of 4.25 seconds with a stock 9mm.

I have to be honest though I have taken great care of the Glock, I cleaned it once LOL! I have run everything from hydra shock and talon to cheap china brick ammo. In fact one day a buddy and me were on a jamming mission. after almost 2000 rounds of continuos shooting with various ammo mixed in the mags it wouldn't happen. That's all I'm saying. very little chance that it will fail at the wrong time dirty or clean.

The most effective self defence weapon is a 12 gauge shotgun. This has been proved beyond debate. 5 rounds of OO buck in a tactical shotgun will give you the best chance of not only surviving a gun fight, but it never starting in the first place. A pump shotgun chambering a round speaks beyond language barriers.

Absolutely a universal truth. I do not care where you are from. Everyone speaks 12 guage LOL! For home defense My pump has bird as the first round. I just want to pepper them the first time so I can be more accurate with my slugs.

 

[+ d]

as always, the valuable feedback around here is impressive! fire extinguishers, handguns, Dr. Seuss...you guys can wax poetic!

i'm encouraged by the number of guys that carry shotguns, i think for the time being i will hold off on the handgun until i can schedule some range time and take the pepsi challenge (Bryan, we'll have to make some plans ).

i think i'll continue with my mossberg 590, it is indeed an intimidating piece...

Albeit large, the 9 shot capacity results in a pretty long barrel. i have a pistol grip on it which helps shorten the overall package, but i can vouch for not wanting to fire off too many rounds with just the pistol grip! a bruised hand was the keepsake from my last trip to jacumba. i think perhaps an integrated light would be a sensible upgrade...

...I keep a Mossberg M590A1...It also has a light...

which one do you use kevin?

 

[Nullifier]

Yep thats what I have right near my bed. I have stock on mine so incase I don't actually need ammo I can beat some ass with it too.