Experience With Preparing ISUZU NPS Camper: Brakes

acceptu4u

New member
Braking ??? what problems

Hi
I have read your post several times and find that I do not understand the problem.
It concerned me so much I rang my Isuzu dealer and spoke to the workshop manager. He said he would check their Australian defect list and ring me back.
When he got back the next day he said their were no reported failures or unexpected lockup of rear brakes in any NPS models.
I have been driving mine now for 2 years with All Terrain modified wheels and have never locked a brake. But then I do not have rally experience so I may be a little more sedate.
 

IcedVolvo

Observer
Hi
I have read your post several times and find that I do not understand the problem.

Ok there are two problems:

1: The back brakes tend to lock in the wet; this is VERY dangerous for the reasons I set out above (i.e. locked drive train -> no engine rotation -> NO power steering!

2: The front brakes overheat and fail VERY easily

It concerned me so much I rang my Isuzu dealer and spoke to the workshop manager. He said he would check their Australian defect list and ring me back.
When he got back the next day he said their were no reported failures or unexpected lockup of rear brakes in any NPS models.

Then they are fibbing! This problem HAS been reported to ISUZU not just by me but by others as well. Isuzu also had my truck tested on a brake roller (as I said above) and the only report I got back was that it was "satisfactory". My local dealer has driven my truck and has also verified that the problem exists. The problem is also well known to major truck brake outfits like Action in Brisbane. Two of the major infrastructure companies (rail and energy) in Queensland simply put concrete blocks in the backs of their trucks. At least two other motor home manufacturers are also having problems and one has commissioned a Sydney drive specialist to make a whole new front axle with disk brakes!

But what would you expect of course ISUZU will not say there is a problem and technically they are correct: the NPS passes all the current Australian ADR standard tests FOR TRUCKS! But compared to other trucks it is pretty poor: there is a reason why the other N series trucks have DISK brakes and ABS!!!!!

I have been driving mine now for 2 years with All Terrain modified wheels and have never locked a brake. But then I do not have rally experience so I may be a little more sedate.

OK perhaps you do not drive your truck with as much gusto as I do and perhaps you do not go the places we go, maybe your LSD is not as tight as mine (I know there were some issues with early LSDs being too tight etc) but that may not be the only issue. One of the remedies suggested by brake people is the "concrete block" and your truck may have this by default. My truck only weighs ~4.5 tonnes whereas I know some of Warriors approached the 5.5+ tonne mark. It depends on which options you have and which method they used for your truck. But if your truck is on the heavy side over the rear axle then you may be OK. I have only 2230kg on the rear axle (note I made a typo in a post above). It may also be that some of the bias valves are not adjusted correctly at the factory which is something we cannot test because no one appears to have the appropriate pressure measuring equipment to test the back brake bias pressure NOT EVEN ISUZU: maybe your is good and mine is marginal.

My interim fix for the problem is as follows:

1: keep front brakes clean and adjusted
2: reduce the back brake bias (->front works harder so gets hotter)
3: use high heat linings in the front (expensive @$400+ per set)
4: use exhaust brakes to supplement but ONLY in the dry
5: ALWAYS brake with clutch DISENGAGED in the wet.
6: adjust tyre pressures for optimal rear braking (initially we had too much pressure in the rear tyres)

And just in case we had any doubt we have just traversed the same back road from Grafton to Armidale mentioned above and although I can get the back to lock very easily I did not want to test this on this road but we were able get the front brakes to overheat trivially easily even in rain and hail! However this time the high heat linings recovered as soon as the drums cooled down and did not glaze and we continued without problems.

This problem is not simple as although the brakes overheated on the aforementioned road I really tested them again a few hours later on the Moonbi hills and did not overheat them. So I think the real problem lies in continual repeated high force braking building up a lot of latent heat in the drums which then take long while to cool down.

I am well on the way to a disk brake conversion and have sourced all the components required and am just waiting for prototype rotors.
 

ozzyfishaman

Adventurer
Isuzu Brakes

Mate I have driven 15000 klm in my Isuzu with and without camper fitted
AtCervantesWA.jpg

in all conditions without an Issue with the brakes.
Unladen it weighs in at 4000 kg and fully laden comes in at 6000 kg +
Maybe if you drove yours like a Expo Vehicle instead of a Daker Truck you would find the brakes acceptable.:smiley_drive:
Ozzyfishaman
 

IcedVolvo

Observer
Hi Ozzyfishman

As for the rear brake lock up my driving style may or may not be a contributing factor but in a modern 2009 model light truck IT SHOULDN'T be. There may be a combination of additional issues like an overly sensitive bias/load adjuster, an unusually tight LSD, soft suspension settings etc etc. however I am NOT the only person with this problem!.

As for the front brakes fading this is not a debatable issue; IT happens! As I mentioned above another motor home manufacturer has commissioned the design of a complete front axle replacement in an attempt to both improve the front suspension AND braking! A West Oz company already have a [very expensive: $25-30k] disc conversion kit.

While some applications are more suited to drum brakes the brutal truth is that a modern light truck like this should have front disk brakes at least and ABS and EBD as an option and there is good reason why the other N Series trucks (and almost all others) do;

The point of the post was to indicate that SOME trucks are having issues with the brakes and whether this is a result of driving style and/or a combination of tolerances in equipment is moot. If you are having issues with these trucks I have listed some things I have found which improve the problem.

Hopefully I will have a disk brake conversion complete by Christmas which will make the problem pretty much go away.
 

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
How much do you expect the disk brake conversion to cost you?
Are these disks just for the front or for all four wheels?
 

alan

Explorer
there's a reason most trucks have drum brakes, disc rotors would not be big enough in diameter to give the braking effort required to stop a large truck, where as drum brakes they can make the shoes wider for more braking area.
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hi Alan,

Isuzu NQR 450's run front discs at 363mm dia with 19.5" wheels so diameter shouldn't be the problem as they have a 8.7T GVM ............ It would rule out running OEM 17.5" wheels with a disc conversion like this on a NPS 300 however.

Regards, John
 
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Amesz00

Adventurer
there's a reason most trucks have drum brakes, disc rotors would not be big enough in diameter to give the braking effort required to stop a large truck, where as drum brakes they can make the shoes wider for more braking area.

alan, i feel this to be a null point, as most new trucks + trailers (especially european rigs) come out with full air powered discs, and unimogs have had discs ever since the later 416s, over 30 years ago.

andrew
 

nick disjunkt

Adventurer
In Europe discs are standard on high spec trucks and usually an upgrade on fleet trucks. I recently replaced the discs on my 18ton merc at about 450,000km. If you stamp on the pedal it'll throw you through the windscreen for sure. The discs fit fine under the 22.5inch wheels but I'm not certain I'd fit 20inch rims on.
 

bumblebeez

New member
bumblebeez

Hi Icedvovo, I am new member also located on Gold Coast with 2009 Isuzu NPS 300. Met Adrian (Thespoon) recently who told me about this site. Currently doing all the truck mods before starting the slide on camper, I also have the same problem with my truck re the brakes, but not quite as severe as yours sounds. Truck is VERY skittish in the wet particularly down hill. Also have done a 180 degree spin in the wet at the Smithfield round-about in Cairns when I changed down before applying the brakes. I avoid doing this again. Lucky no other vehicles in the way. GC Isuzu have put stiffer oil in my rear diff as the diff shudders badly on turning front wheels full lock. Do you have this problem? I am in the process of fitting super singles 19.5 x 302 that I bought second hand from Michelin Nerang. I was told the offset was only 20mm out of line, only to find out they were talking centimeters not millimeters. A very expensive experience that I am trying to get resolved. I wish I had come across this forum before I bought them. Have you been able to sort out your braking problems yet?
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hi . Welcome to the forum.

I am in the process of fitting super singles 19.5 x 302 that I bought second hand from Michelin Nerang. I was told the offset was only 20mm out of line, only to find out they were talking centimeters not millimeters. A very expensive experience that I am trying to get resolved. I wish I had come across this forum before I bought them.

Have you talked to Doug from Gold Coast Isuzu at Nerang about any of this? They would do more single wheel conversions than any other Isuzu dealer in the country and I'm sure could offer proper advice. .

Regards John.
 
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IcedVolvo

Observer
Hi People, a while since I been here: too busy having a good time:sombrero: Alas having to support two kids at uni means curtailing travelling to go back to work for a while.

However this braking problem is the last remaining "issue" with this truck Siggh! I have just heard that both the new Fuso and Isuzu trucks still have drums at the front. Sort of makes sense as the biggest buyer of these trucks are the miners and they don't want disks because they wear out too quickly in the abrasive environments (they even convert their Toyotas etc back to sealed brake systems!!!).

We never did find a supply of disk rotors for the trucks so we never did the conversion: we just drive very VERY carefully in the wet and always assume the front brakes will overheat in hilly country.

However for those interested note that a QLD based motor home builder (not ATW!!) has finalised the conversion for the ISUZU to a front Dana diff with coil springs which includes disks and a locking diff as a replacement for the standard diff/suspension. The cost is not finalised yet but they think there wont be much left from $25k for the conversion!!! At that sort of money I wont be in the queue quickly!

Anyway happy travelling people :)
 

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