F150 vs Tundra....I’ll make a decision tomorrow

[Dalko43]

Like what? Who has a better survey system? Who is better at tracking/surveying things gone wrong and "dependability" or "reliability"?

I really encourage you to read some 3rd party (arguably less biased) articles about JD Power and the different award categories they hand out...a lot of them mean diddly squat. It's just chest candy so that the auto companies can pat themselves on the back and pretend they've "won" something to look good in the eyes of the customer.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying...there are good reliability surveys and studies out there...I just don't put too much stock in what JD power says.

 

[bkg]

I really encourage you to read some 3rd party (arguably less biased) articles about JD Power and the different award categories they hand out...a lot of them mean diddly squat. It's just chest candy so that the auto companies can pat themselves on the back and pretend they've "won" something to look good in the eyes of the customer.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying...there are good reliability surveys and studies out there...I just don't put too much stock in what JD power says.

And those better surveys and studies are.... where? @Kaisen asked, and now I'm very interested because it keeps being said "there are better" but no additional data provided.

 

[phsycle]

And those better surveys and studies are.... where? @Kaisen asked, and now I'm very interested because it keeps being said "there are better" but no additional data provided.

Get used to it. That's his typical MO. "Ford sucks!" Ever owned one? "......."; "Diesel is king!" Ever owned one? "......."


Something to point out is, even given Lexus is at the top, it still had 106 problems. Industry standard is 136 problems. That's not a big gap. And there are lots of makes within that +/- 30pt range.

Point is, most cars are pretty much on-par now days. I've owned almost every make. Some were not so great. But most were good. Buying a new truck today, I'd focus more on what fits my needs better. For me, it'd be either a Ram or Ford for a full size--basic trim available in every cab configuration, and a rear locker can be added in every trim level.

 

[Dalko43]

And those better surveys and studies are.... where? @Kaisen asked, and now I'm very interested because it keeps being said "there are better" but no additional data provided.

I don't get all the skepticism regarding my statement...do people honestly buy into JD Power? How many people here have actually read through all their award categories and the method they used for ranking? Because if you actually did some reading about that, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

As for better surveys and studies:
Consumer Reports is well-regarded, based on actual owner/member feedback: Consumer Reports Article

Also, the NHTSA website gives a very good overview of the recalls (type and severity) and TSB's for each vehicle. NHTSA

Either one is a much better starting point for getting an understanding of vehicle reliability. Plenty of others out there...it's not that hard to Google search for them.

 

[Dalko43]

Get used to it. That's his typical MO. "Ford sucks!" Ever owned one? "......."; "Diesel is king!" Ever owned one? "......."

I've never said either.

I currently own a gasoline 4x4. I have no problem with running those, but I am realistic about their shortcomings especially when loaded with gear.

Have never owned a Ford; I acknowledge they make some decent vehicles. But I think it's fair to say as well, that Ford does not have the same focus on quality as some other brands. As per the NHTSA website, Ford F-150's do have more recalls and TSB's compared to the Tundra...doesn't mean the F-150 is a bad vehicle, because I'm sure on average they work just fine.

 

[bkg]

I don't get all the skepticism regarding my statement...do people honestly buy into JD Power? How many people here have actually read through all their award categories and the method they used for ranking? Because if you actually did some reading about that, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

As for better surveys and studies:
Consumer Reports is well-regarded, based on actual owner/member feedback: Consumer Reports Article

Also, the NHTSA website gives a very good overview of the recalls (type and severity) and TSB's for each vehicle. NHTSA

Either one is a much better starting point for getting an understanding of vehicle reliability. Plenty of others out there...it's not that hard to Google search for them.

You don't get skepticism about your statement? Please tell me that comment is satirical...

 

[JCMatthews]

Is it because you missed the Ford or a SUV?

The Ford was built more solidly. The brakes, for instance, on the Tundra had to be replaced at 45,000. I have replaced them myself since. The Ford service manual said to replace the brakes at 92,000, and that's when they started showing signs and were replaced. The front end of my Tundra is noisy. It clunks and squeaks and sounds bad and has for quite a while. The Ford had an interior rattle in the console area and that was it. I do also miss the third row, but love the cargo of the truck.

 

[phsycle]

The Ford was built more solidly. The brakes, for instance, on the Tundra had to be replaced at 45,000.

Interesting. Does your truck have the bigger 213mm brakes or 199?

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

I've never said either.

I currently own a gasoline 4x4. I have no problem with running those, but I am realistic about their shortcomings especially when loaded with gear.

Have never owned a Ford; I acknowledge they make some decent vehicles. But I think it's fair to say as well, that Ford does not have the same focus on quality as some other brands. As per the NHTSA website, Ford F-150's do have more recalls and TSB's compared to the Tundra...doesn't mean the F-150 is a bad vehicle, because I'm sure on average they work just fine.

Just to be clear, since 2000, Toyota tundra has sold approximately 2 million units total.
Since 2000, Ford has sold approximately 14 million f150's just in the US.
So, I definitely agree with you , Ford 150 has had more tsb's than tundra. Good observation.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Just to be clear, since 2000, Toyota tundra has sold approximately 2 million units total.
Since 2000, Ford has sold approximately 14 million f150's just in the US.
So, I definitely agree with you , Ford 150 has had more tsb's than tundra. Good observation.

I’d be interested in where you get that number. Ford does not release individual sale numbers. They just say f series. Which is f150-f450.

 

[JCMatthews]

Interesting. Does your truck have the bigger 213mm brakes or 199?

I don't know. It is a 2005 DC. I assume it has the larger brakes. I bought it used at 42K from the original owner and it was in great shape.

 

[Dalko43]

Just to be clear, since 2000, Toyota tundra has sold approximately 2 million units total.
Since 2000, Ford has sold approximately 14 million f150's just in the US.
So, I definitely agree with you , Ford 150 has had more tsb's than tundra. Good observation.

Most TSB's are not specific to a single vehicle...they generally call out trends that are common to many vehicles within a model/product line. The OEM makes a design misstep or runs into faulty components that yields an outcome that isn't necessarily recall-worthy...they note it in a TSB. Thought to be quite honest, Ford has a very long history of refusing to acknowledge many such issues with some of its past models. Bottom line: Ford has more recalls and more TSB's across its vehicle lineup than does Toyota.

So the argument that Ford sells more vehicles, thus more TSB's are warranted is a stupid one...many of these issues have nothing to do with statistical failure or fault rates in manufacturing. Rather they are related to poor design choices and negligence.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Dalko43, thanks for clearing that up.
I had no idea.
That tsb's are due to poor design and negligence.

 

[moonshiner]

Posted this before but here it is again.
Long term quality index:

Full-size Truck - Dashboard Light

Get long-term reliability information and rankings for Full-size Truck and other vehicle classes and manufacturers using the Long-Term Quality Index.

www.dashboard-light.com

The data is based on inspection of used vehicles by ASE certified mechanics and professional car buyers. Not owner surveys like J.D Power or Consumer Reports.
More info regarding their method: http://www.dashboard-light.com/click-here-first/

Toyota is still ahead of everyone else (long term powertrain-wise).
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Resources/Images/QIRAlpha.png

Ford is near the bottom even below Land Rover.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

I read how these two fellows did their research, it really comes down to "who you gonna believe".
To each their own.

We've gotten away from the original topic,
The question is, should the op get a small truck or a full-size.
I believe the op is leaning toward the small truck for agility and is not planning on carrying a large payload.
Most posts here are suggesting the op should opt for the full size be it tundra or whatever.
Some have turned this "as usual" into a pissing match.

To the op, good luck in your search to find what fits your situation and lifestyle.