Finally a real 12v air conditioner? - Indel Sleeping Well Cube

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adam88

Explorer
I didn't see this posted anywhere on the forums, and I find this incredibly cool. It looks like Indel (a big company in other countries) is manufacturing a 12v portable air conditioner that is actually LEGIT. Here is the link to it: http://www.indelb.com/products/truck_air_conditioning/sleeping_well/sw_cube

The cliff notes:

- Basically a 15" cube that weighs about 43 lbs
- It has 2 hoses, and a water evaporator built in. So no water to drain, and dual hose venting/intake system
- 3,250 BTU. Enough to cool roughly a 130 square foot room in a house, or a typical small camper.
- It uses the highly efficient Secop BD350GH compressor. Secop is the same as Danfoss (same company). These are the same ones used in refrigerators
- The 12v version consumes 36 amps (with outside temperature @ 89 degrees, inside temp 77 degrees)
- Price is hard to find, but somewhere around $1500 US plus any shipping/import fees. Probably closer to $2k.

Interesting... will post my thoughts in a reply. What does everyone think?
Here's a brochure with more info/specs: http://www.espar.co.uk/Images/PDF-Cube-brochure.pdf
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375_SW--fronte-con-kit-tubi.jpg
 
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adam88

Explorer
So my thoughts: Definitely a niche product. I think most who would see this would scoff at the price, or simply spend the money on a nice inverter and maybe a cheap household AC. But in my opinion, there's nothing like this on the market... a true portable 12v AC using a highly efficient compressor.

Here's how I look at it - how much do we pay for our 12v refrigerators using danfoss compressors? Usually a lot... sometimes $1000 or more. But if I went to Walmart, I could buy a cheap bar fridge for $99 and use that in my RV, but I don't. Same principles IMO apply to air conditioners. Now, this A/C at 3,250 BTU isn't going to power any motorhomes anytime soon, or an Earthroamer, but it's obviously not intended to. It's meant for small truck sleeper cabs. I imagine it would work really well for small campers though, especially well insulated ones. 3200 BTU should be enough to cool about a 130 square foot space that is well insulated.

Other things I like about this... #1) It doesn't take up space permanently in an RV. It can be removed during winter months and stored somewhere else. #2) Theoretically, it could also be used anywhere in a normal household (using a portable converter/transformer). If you carried an inverter with you on the road with you, then you could even use it in hotel rooms and guest rooms, just by putting the hoses out the window. #3) Doesn't require any fancy mounting in a camper, no cut holes. I've seen that the trend lately is to put 5,000 BTU household air conditioners into vehicles, with them hanging out the back. This would be a lot simpler.

Either way, nice to see something like this come onto the market. I was just in Europe too, maybe I should have picked one up and brought it back. Oh well :)
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
adam88 said:
So my thoughts: Definitely a niche product. I think most who would see this would scoff at the price, or simply spend the money on a nice inverter and maybe a cheap household AC. But in my opinion, there's nothing like this on the market... a true portable 12v AC using a highly efficient compressor.
Click to expand...

Unless there's something I'm missing, that's only a little over half as efficient as a good EnergyStar household-type unit is. :confused:

36A @ 12V is 432 watts to produce an output of 3250 BTU. That works out to an energy efficiency ratio around 7.5. Good household units are in the low-mid 11s. So for maybe another 50-70 watts (adding in inverter losses) you can have over 50% more cooling power with a 5000 BTU window-type unit (for probably cheaper too).
 
A

adam88

Explorer
4x4junkie said:
Unless there's something I'm missing, that's only a little over half as efficient as a good EnergyStar household-type unit is. :confused:

36A @ 12V is 432 watts to produce an output of 3250 BTU. That works out to an energy efficiency ratio around 7.5. Good household units are in the low-mid 11s. So for maybe another 50-70 watts (adding in inverter losses) you can have over 50% more cooling power with a 5000 BTU window-type unit (for probably cheaper too).
Click to expand...

Actually, an efficiency rating of 7.5 is incredibly good for this unit. Not just good, *incredibly* good. What you are missing is that you are comparing this to larger window mounted units. This is not a window unit, it is a portable unit, so it must be compared to other portable A/C's when discussing it's efficiency. Portable A/C's, due to their design, will always be less efficient than window A/C's. But the convenience of them is what makes that acceptable. A quick look online shows that typical portable AC units have an EER of around 9 to 9.5, with the most efficient units having a 10.

The best comparison would be this EdgeStar 8,000 BTU ultra compact portable unit: http://www.edgestar.com/EdgeStar-80...Air-Conditioner-White/AP8000W,default,pd.html - It is listed as an EER of 9.5. This is a great comparison because it's a very compact unit and is the smallest portable A/C on the market (non-DC).

The 9.5 vs 7.5 efficiency ratio difference can probably most be summed up by the sizing. An 8,000 BTU unit is going to be more efficient than a 3,250 BTU unit. Just like a 16,000 BTU portable A/C is going to be far more efficient than the 8,000 BTU portable one. If you cut that 8,000 BTU portable AC in half, to 4,000 BTU, there's no way that EdgeStar could maintain their 9.5 EER.

Now if you factor in the inverter loss of power, plus you consider the size and so forth, I think it's actually a pretty efficient unit. The 12v version does cost 3x as much, but so do the 12v fridges we buy.

Bottom line, creating a portable 3,250 BTU unit with an EER of 7.5 is damn impressive in my opinion.

But of course arguments can be made against this. I am not convincing anyone that this is a good solution. I'd say for 99% of RV'ers this makes little to no sense at all. Total niche product.
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
You may be right (portable vs window unit).

I think I'd still rather have something mounted through the wall of a camper, RV, etc. instead of something to have to lug around though.

So I would agree, it's a very niche product (it does seem to be marketed toward truck drivers that switch trucks often).
 
A

adam88

Explorer
DiploStrat said:
Been looking at this beast: http://www.arcticbreeze-truckac.com/content/arcticbreezeintro.html#specs

Some nice battery protection circuits and they have done at least one installation in a MB Sprinter where they broke the unit into three pieces for easier install.
Click to expand...

Yeah man, I've seen that for a couple of years. Really well built unit. Their page is a bit deceiving though. It says 45 amps, but then below in the fine print it says that is for a 50% duty cycle. Running full on at 8,000 BTU it sounds like it would consume 90 amps an hour or close to that. That puts it at (surprise surprise) an EER of 7.4. I contacted them a while back and IIRC it was somewhere around $4k or maybe even $5k for it, so it's out of my budget. It's also too big for me. I think Marc at XP Camper might have offered to install these in his campers. I don't know if anyone ever selected it as an option though.

Edit: I misread the page. It's confusing though. I'm not sure how much energy it takes. They say 350 watts average, 600 watts max. The 600 watts max can't possibly be for 100% duty cycle though. That would give it an EER of 13.3. But at the top they do put 45 amps running, which is 540 watts. I dislike sites that don't present actual numbers, e.g., real world numbers. That's the one thing I like about the cube unit above... they actually posted it's real world numbers operating at 89F outside and 77F inside. Hmmm, wonder if there's any numbers like that for this unit anywhere online?

One thing to note is it weighs a lot... 194 pounds. So it could possibly be super efficient if they have given up weight for efficiency. Very massive 12v highly efficient fans could get the job done for sure. I guess it makes sense, because on a semi, you are more concerned about efficiency and less about weight. Nice.
 
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Kiomon

Adventurer
This little box looks interesting for sure! We have a split AC system from domestic but it also runs on AC. My bigger wonder would be how well it can cool an actual camper. 3000 BTUs isn't a lot. We have 13,500, and it gets the job done very well, but I can't imagine having a quarter of that. But a smaller camper van potentially? Houses are order of magnitude better insulated that anything I have seen in the overland market.

I personally think the price is great for a niche device, I would love to get one to try as a little cab cooler in the cabin of the Mog when it's too dusty or suffocating to have the windows down. If anyone finds a dealer in the U.S. post it up
 
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adam88

Explorer
Kiomon said:
This little box looks interesting for sure! We have a split AC system from domestic but it also runs on AC. My bigger wonder would be how well it can cool an actual camper. 3000 BTUs isn't a lot. We have 13,500, and it gets the job done very well, but I can't imagine having a quarter of that. But a smaller camper van potentially? Houses are order of magnitude better insulated that anything I have seen in the overland market.

I personally think the price is great for a niche device, I would love to get one to try as a little cab cooler in the cabin of the Mog when it's too dusty or suffocating to have the windows down. If anyone finds a dealer in the U.S. post it up
Click to expand...

3250 BTU isn't a lot, you're right. I think where this unit would shine, primarily, is not only reducing the heat inside the cab but removing moisture (acting as a dehumidifier). It's the moisture that is a real killer. Anyone who has been in really hot hot weather will tell you that 85 degrees at high humidity can feel like 100 degrees or more. So if the unit lowers the inside temperature by 10-15 degrees, but also removes a large amount of moisture and drops the humidity down, then it could be a good combo. For us, an AC isn't about making the inside freezing cold... we don't want that, because we do want our bodies to adapt to the climate. It's just merely about "taking the edge off" and making sleeping somewhat bearable.

Indel also makes a 6,150 BTU roof mounted 12v a/c that uses two compressors. It is called the "Oblo Twin". What I find interesting about this is, I wonder if it is setup to only run ONE compressor on low? Theoretically then you'd have the best of both worlds. You could run one compressor (roughly 3000 BTU) on low, and if you needed more cooling, up it to high and run both compressors. The only thing with this is we don't really want a roof mounted setup for ours, but it's a great option. This might be up Diplo's alley. It says it uses around 30 amps minimum and 70 amps turbo. So I believe my suspicions about the double compressors may be dead on :) Edit: Twin version might only be available in 24v... boo.

http://www.indelb.com/products/truck_air_conditioning/sleeping_well/sw_oblo_twin
 
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