Flip-pac camper build

[Bella PSD]

Sorry for the delay in posting. I have somewhat of a catastrophic failure, or at least one that makes me rethink the direction I am headed.

The plan was to finish the framing of the rear door and raising the sides. Enclose the inside and floor. And build a jack system to raise and lower the Flip Pac camper. Then cover the exterior before starting on the inside. Then paint the camper to match the truck, keeping it “somewhat” camp stealthy. I wanted the side to be no wider than the truck and raised high enough inside to camp inside with the flip closed, if needed. Basically, don’t make it to big (wide) and keep an automotive style finish. So far so good……

Until now! What’s happen is the camper has developed some small cracks in the finish. The cracks are only as deep as the skim coat of body filler over the fiberglass. But a bigger problem has developed from exposure to rain. As you can guess, water and body filler are not good together. The near perfect outer skin of the camper is swelling up at the cracks and just like freeze/thaw cycle, they get bigger each day.

The first thing I was trying to figure out was if the cracks were from stress or from exposure to water getting into a small area I missed some how. Stress would be from the camper flexing. I tried driving over a ditch and flexing the front wheel down till it was hanger in air. The opposite rear tire was crammed in the wheel well. The camper did flex, but not much at all. The areas that are cracked did not enlarge or close up as I flexed the truck frame. So this leaves me with water. This I can fix and continue on with my plan. But this has been such a scare, I have been looking into skinning the exterior with some kind of plastic or aluminum, just like a truck camper or any commercial camper trailer.

This would be a big change in plans and I need to really get it right this time. So I have been looking into ways to skin the exterior with something, not sure yet.

Also a question/comment! Right now the Flip Pac camper sits on the bed rails AND the floor of the truck bed equally. I was thinking it would be a good idea to move the camper up off the bed rails and only have it rest on the floor of the truck bed. Maybe move it up one inch by adding to the floor of the camper. The only reason for the camper to sit on the bed rails was to keep the storage areas dry from rain. I could fab up so 1” seals easy enough and keep the storage areas on each side of the camper dry. I was thinking this would help with the little bit a flex I was getting in the camper body.

 

[elmo_4_vt]

Sorry to hear your having the troubles with the outter surface... You could try over on the TTT forum (http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/index.php). They have used all kinds of outer skins to keep the water out. Please keep us updated. I was going to glass the wood on my trailer, but maybe that's not the best idea.

Could the problem be from the puddy? I seem to think I've heard that before?

Don

-

 

[Bella PSD]

Sorry to hear your having the troubles with the outter surface... You could try over on the TTT forum (http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/index.php). They have used all kinds of outer skins to keep the water out. Please keep us updated. I was going to glass the wood on my trailer, but maybe that's not the best idea.

Could the problem be from the puddy? I seem to think I've heard that before?

Don

-

Yep, The glass I laid is just fine. Its the skim coat I did to make it look better that's not holding up.

 

[Bella PSD]

Don, almost forgot, thanks for the link. Lots of Ideas I can use from those Teardrops!!

 

[dustboy]

Wow, this kind of project is right up my alley. Awesome work, and a patient wife!!

I'd guess the cracks in the body filler are either due to the fiberglass having a different rate of heat expansion/contraction than the bondo, and/or the wood moves a lot with humidity change. The fiberglass can flex a little with the wood but the bondo has no elasticity.

 

[Bella PSD]

Yes the problem is the skim layer of filler to make the fiberglass look ok. I do believe as you do, that the filler is just not going to hold its shape and not crack over time. Really is to bad because it looked so good with the smooth rounded corners and edges. So, I am stuck here trying to figure a way to finish the exterior.

I am leaning towards skinning the camper with some kind of thin plastic paneling. And finish the corners and edges off with a trim piece. Trim pieces like I used around the door. My first thought is, do the panels need to float or can they be ridged and glued down?

I really need to get past this so I can start on the interior!

 

[Martyn]

My first thought is, do the panels need to float or can they be ridged and glued down?

If the expansion and contraction rates of the inner material and the skin material are identical then you can glue them. If they are not then the skin needs to float.

 

[compactcamping]

Bella PSD, Are all sides of the wood structure you've add well sealed? This will help minimize expansion and contraction.

For leveling a surface with fiberglass over wood in kayaks and trailer boxes, I make a fairing putty by mixing resin, low-density microballoons and sanding dust. This way your sealing layer and fill layer will have the same expansion characteristics and this type of resin based filler will not absort moisture. Note, my experience is with using Epoxy based resins.

Depending on your equipment, seems like it would be easier and faster to sand out the Bondo and refill (yes very messy), than skin it.

 

[robert]

Yep, remove the current filler and use a fiberglass filler like they use on sailboats. It'd be a pain and it's more expensive, but should work. Disclaimer, I'm no craftsman but I do read Wooden Boat magazine. :snorkel: (I actually do have a little experience with it helping friends out who own sailboats)

 

[spencyg]

Disclaimer, I'm no craftsman but I do read Wooden Boat magazine. :snorkel:

Ha! Is this like staying at a holiday inn express? (Sidebar: I used to work for WoodenBoat at the school...pretty awesome place to visit if you're ever up this way)

Chances are, you used polyester resin to apply the fiberglass. The body filler you used is either polyester or vinylester based, neither of which are great when used on wood. Your best bet (take a deep breath) is to remove all the filler, and then rip the glass off. You will be disturbed at how easy it will be to remove the glass....especially from red oak. Oak has very tight pores and doesn't bond well (or at all) with any ester based resins. Any problems you have now will only get worse if you leave the current glass on.

When you remove all of that stuff, you'll want to sand everything smooth again, and then start over with some epoxy. West System is the primo brand and the one I use 100% of the time. You can also use MAS system, and System 3. Buy a gallon of resin, and a quart of hardener. Don't forget the special metering pumps. I'd sheath the back with 10oz cloth minimum. Make sure the corners of the wood are VERY well rounded (no less than 1/2" radius). Saturate all of the wood with clear resin and let it set up, then do it again. This will fill the grain and any pores which are still sucking moisture. Also coat any end-grain you can....keep coating it as the wood absorbs the resin...you want it to look wet. Once all of that has dried, go over the whole thing with 80g paper on a random orbit sander. THEN apply the glass....wet the surface, apply the glass, then wet out the glass. Be sure to work from the inside out so as to avoid air bubbles. Any bubbles you get can be quickly fixed by slitting the bubble with a razor blade and working in flush. Once you're satisfied with the lay of the cloth, let it cure. Then two more coats of resin. Second coat could be thickened with either microballons (West system product) or ultralight filler additive (another West System product). The addition of these items in the resin (thickened to a yogurt consistency or peanut butter consistency depending on how well it is holding on vertical surfaces) will turn the epoxy into a filler and won't give you any problems afterwards. You probably would have been better off using an exterior grade plywood on the back of the camper. Solid wood moves around quite a bit while plywood doesn't. Regardless, the epoxy will work much better and will provide a permanent fix. Unfortuantely it undoes a bunch of work you've already done, but doing it right now will save you tons of headache later. Good luck...love the project!

Spence

 

[compactcamping]

Good point Spence, I just assumed everyone uses Epoxy resin.

Yes, West Systems is the brand I use also. Whether you use Spence's method or a wet layup method (saturating the cloth over raw wood) you'll need to watch out for blush when epoxying in colder weather. Fast cure harders (for cooler temps) have a higher tendency to blush. It's a waxy film that forms on the surface as a byproduct of curing. When I do a layups, I add subsequent layers of epoxy, when the previous layer is in the green phase and still tacky. Doing it this way, there is no worry of blush and the bonding between layers is chemical (stronger) verses mechanical. This is why I normally use the wet layup method.

Removing blush is easy. If you let a layer of epoxy setup past the green phase, simply use a green 3M scrubby pad to wash the surface with lots of clean water.

 

[spencyg]

Good point on the blush, I too typically recoat when the surface is just past tacky but figured the explaination would cause too much head spinning...you did a great job picking up my dropped ball

Also, by liberally sanding with 80g paper and then washing (I forgot to describe this step), you effectively eliminate the blush issue. The blush will typically gum up your sandpaper a bit, so washing first, sand, then wash again, is the best way to deal with it. Regardless, the polyester resin in its entirety needs to go and be replaced with epoxy. Plan on spending around $100 for a gallon set of epoxy, maybe $15 for microballons, another $15 for microlite fairing filler, and $10 for pumps. I buy my resin locally at a chandlery (www.hamiltonmarine.com), but you can also get it from West Marine (www.westmarine.com). I'd get my cloth from defender industries (www.defender.com). Make sure it is just standard weave 10oz, nothing fancy and no mat or roving....they both don't work with epoxy resins (actually, its the binder in the mat and roving that doesn't work). Good luck, the project is going well, and the finished product will be worth this extra work.

Spence

 

[robert]

Ha! Is this like staying at a holiday inn express? (Sidebar: I used to work for WoodenBoat at the school...pretty awesome place to visit if you're ever up this way)

<snip>

Spence

I thought it was funny anyways. :sombrero: Yeah, I actually have a little experience with it from helping friends with their boats and a couple of friends who do custom woodwork. I've also repaired some fiberglass Westy tops using West Systems products.

 

[compactcamping]

Like they say, two heads are better than one :sombrero:

Good luck on the project, looking good so far.

 

[Bella PSD]

OK, I think I know what happen.

To start out, all supplies were from a supply house locally. They were moving the warehouse to Tennessee so they just GAVE me what I needed. Free is fine but I did question them as to the contents, and it was epoxy. They also gave me 6 gallons of gray primer☺

Wood was sanded with 60 grit. I started out with Epoxy resin for the fiberglass, soaked the wood one time and applied on coat of matt. Then two more coats of risen. As far as blush, it was 70 degrees out and I don’t have a clue what it would look like. But I was clear, not milky. Sanded down with 60 grit and applied the first coat of filler. BUT I had a small portion of tiger hair bondo from Auto zone that I wanted to use up before opening the 5-gallon of filler I got from the supply house. Every place that is cracking is where I applied the tiger hair!! Not everywhere just 3-4 spots with cracks.

And the wood is red oak plywood, 5 layers. The 5" sides are soild pine. All corners are well rounded.

I wonder how much of this could just be shrinkage.