Exactly! I hear all kinds of crap about rovers being unreliable and all that crap but at the end of the day i would be proud to have a Rover parked next to my XJs!
Freelander as an overland vehicle?
- Thread starter Mike_rupp
- Start date
Exactly! I hear all kinds of crap about rovers being unreliable and all that crap but at the end of the day i would be proud to have a Rover parked next to my XJs!
TeriAnn
Explorer
I wouldn't kick a nice CJ7 or Willys Station wagon out of my yard either.
TeriAnn
Explorer
Nope. It's gotta be real surplus pea soup green Hurricane cockpit paint. Anything else is just a fraud.
Oh well then I guess everyone drives fraud Land Rover wannabees. Its my current understanding that prototype #1 was parted out at a relatively young age. I have no problem driving a fraud. Its got so many parts from so many different vehicles it is mostly a collection of parts labeled as a 1960 Land Rover.
Why is it elitist to categorize things and lump things into groups? Near as I can tell it is a basic human characteristic, probably a universal characteristic of all creatures able to tell things apart. From the basics of: Food-not food, safe - not safe. You might as well say that it is elitist anachronistic snobbery to drink tea instead of coffee or to say there is a difference between a skirt and pants.
I come from a biology background where taxonomy is a basic upon which just about everything else is built from. That and being human, I tend to lump things closer together by the number of traits that they share. I don't look at it as elitist nor as a wrong thing to do. Just natural.
I have no personal problem with the way others may categorize items. Why should I care?
Sigh, just get over your inferiority complex enough to understand that I just classify things differently from you but I do not make value judgments to the importance of one classification over another. OK, I do place value judgments of the number of parts my truck can use from a donor truck to keep my truck going as more & more Series parts become NLA. But that's pretty much it as far as value judgments other than a personal preference for my own truck.
I happily acknowledge that a stock coiler Land Rover is more trail capable out of the box than a Series truck. And that just about anything newer than a Series III is more comfortable to drive. Just like anyone cheering on their favorite sports team I'm a fan of my own Land Rover and Series Land Rovers in general. Its a natural human thing. Just like calling any sports team that is not your team "them bums" Its a natural human thing. Just like people following their favorite sports teams.
Think of Series and Disco's as being like the Giants and A's, both baseball teams from the San Francisco Bay area. The teams are different but if you are a fan of one team you do not have to be a fan of the other team.
You are taking this entirely too seriously.
Colorado David
Explorer
Corey Ford once said "A purist is someone who goes to great lengths to deny themselves a little pleasure."
He also said "This old trout stream isn't what it used to be, and furthermore, it never was."
He also said "This old trout stream isn't what it used to be, and furthermore, it never was."
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Yes, and for a lot longer than Rover people have.
Colorado David said:
By that definition, I seriously doubt TeriAnn is a purist.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Teri, you asked this question. I'm telling you the answer. There's generally nothing wrong with classifying items, as long as it's done in an impartial manner, and meant for some purpose. The *reason* people take offence to your classifications is because we know it's being done in a derogatory manner, or we perceive it to be so. Skin colour can be used as a method of classification to determine people's heritage. It can also be used to make false judgments about a person's quality. People perceive your comments to be closer to the latter. Whether that is the intent or not is unclear, but the fact remains, and the solution is to either stop making the comments, or change the way you make them.
You are the one who made the reference to "effete Discoveries", where the definition of effete is "lacking in wholesome vigor; degenerate; decadent". It's hard for that comment to be interpreted in any other way but derogatory.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
I'd agree with you there, but I always take it further. The reason I prefer a Series, or a coiler like my D90 that is undergoing an extensive "downgrade" is that with reasonable maintenance, those will still be running around 30-40 years from their build date and be just as capable off-road. I don't for a minute believe the same can be said for an Freelander, LR3, RRS, and the like.
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R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I generally agree with that. It sure will be difficult for home mechanics to keep an LR3 on the road. DII will take some creativity, but it's not really that hard. A SLABS-ectomy would leave the braking system no more complicated than an older truck. The ECU is easily replaced with any number of aftermarket open architecture systems, and I vastly prefer this route to any mucking about with Byzantine carburetors. It already has coil springs and simple shocks with a basic axle. Body could be rewired to eliminate the BCU, etc.
TeriAnn
Explorer
I am a purist! I purely love my Land Rover. Just a glance at her puts a smile to my lips. For 30 years she has been my companion on the trails and around the ranch. She may be a hybrid collection of parts from many vehicles that only a mother could love, but I'm her mother and I purely love her. A lot of that smile & love is built from memories of past trips and the promise of future trips. But you know, that love doesn't really extend to all Land Rovers, nor all 4X4s, nor all trucks, nor all cars. I've only owned one Land Rover at a time and I've never had a desire to own another.
The closer another vehicle is to my Land Rover the more I am apt to like them. Land Rover Dormobiles, then Land Rover caravans Then Series Land Rovers & so on. Once the relationship is diluted to the point where there are no parts in common I tend to not even think about them unless someone brings them up.
But when it comes to my own Land Rover I am a purist. and totally strung out on the memories of past trips and aspirations of future trips.
Uhhhhh? YEAH! A lot of the guys i know have parts from so many different vehicles on their XJ's and Yota's its not even funny. To me though a Freelander is like a Liberty or a Rav-4 its not a true Rover! They are good for the street and maybe a dirt road but thats it! I may be an elitist but its hard not to be when my vehicle is as reliable and capable as my XJ! I do however appreciate other vehicles!
TeriAnn
Explorer
You just can't handle any kidding can you? I mean it in about the same way as Dodger fans might call Giant fans "Dem bums". As a friendly form or rivalry. You are just way too serious. If anything I wonder about people who always assume the worst interpretation of what another person might say.
My intent is really pretty simple. I got bored with a lot of Discovery fans calling Freelanders piles of junk that were not worthy of the Land Rover name and thought I'd stir the pot a little to see how others would feel if the shoe were on the other model. Now imagine yourself as a Freelander owner and fan with people writing all this derogatory stuff about your favorite model. How is it different?
Had to look that one up did you? No. I'll assume that you understood the term quite well all along but wanted to make sure that everyone who read your reply had a common understanding of the meaning. See One does not have to assume the worst of what anyone writes.
For me personally, I don't care enough about Discoverys or just about any other model or Marque to have strong feelings about them one way or another. I was raised in a Ford household so I know Fords are better than Chevys. I love my Truck, so by extension like other Series Land Rovers. I love my TR3A and by extension like other TR3's. And I admire Morgan +4's as being more TR3 like than a TR3. But other than that I tend not to invest much feelings about other vehicles other than thinking one looks cuter than another or I prefer one in this colour to that colour.
I haven't bothered to invest emotions in Discoverys. I made the reference to "effete Discoveries" just to stir things up after so many Discovery people put down Freelanders in this thead. Not because I don't like them.
Let the Freelander people be happy in their trucks and be happy with yours.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
You know, if they would have imported that Discovery, I would be all over it. The simplicity of a Camel Trophy Disco, with a relatively simple 4 cyl turbodiesel, is my dream car.
I went down to Arizona to visit Scott Brady for a long weekend, and we took his Disco II out on the trail. I think I stained the leather seats with drool. It was an extremely capable and comfortable 4x4, and the whole flight home I was mentally shifting my finances so I could get one. Then I came to the conclusion that it was the wrong vehicle in my environment. Lots of water, deep mud, and tight trails don't mix with highly complex (and expensive) vehicles. Even in the Southwest, Scott eventually had issues with the vehicle that led him to move to another marque. Since I use my vehicles in what can be considered an extreme climate, I had to factor in a shorter service life for parts- very expensive parts. Even when I did the work myself and used junkyard parts whenever possible, the numbers started to hurt. Imagine sitting in the middle of a river with water running from one door to another, staring down at your heated leather seats. Now consider what is getting wet that you can't see. That's my reality on Alaska trails, so I choose simplicity over complexity- even at the expense of personal comfort and pure performance. To paraphrase a well-worn saying, "cupholders and comfort zones don't get you home".
Like I said, if I could get a simple Disco for what the NAS Disco Is are going for today, I would be all over it.
Until then, I'll keeping dumping piles of money into my Series III, making it as capable, comfortable, and reliable as I can within the parameters of the basic vehicle and my budget. I have a soft spot in my heart (head?) for flat body panels.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I agree completely in wanting a simple vehicle. That's why I got one with fuel injection. I hate carburetors and distributors. Different strokes for different folks. Having been trained as a powertrain engineer, I *get* these systems and they're very easy to understand and repair. Those who complain about them just haven't made the jump.
My early life where I was dealing with carburetors and such are full of plugged jets, mis-adjusted floats, and varnish. Difficult starting, lean when hot... worn points, cracked distributors, disintegrated coils. These things always leave you guessing as to the root cause, and they are NOT all as trail-fixable as people like to suggest. People like to point out about how a blown crank position sensor will leave you stranded. Ever have a stripped distributor gear? That'll leave you stranded too. People who prefer old things look at the CPS and say "see, there's something new that can go wrong that I don't have". Yeah, but you need to subtract the probably of stripping a distributor gear because we don't have one of those.
Look at the water line here. I have done exactly zero electrical preparation, and had zero problems with 3 days of water like this.
Just in case there's any doubt as to the height of the water...
I know others have been through deeper, particularly with diesels. I'm not claiming this is the ultimate. But some people think the electronics are not even capable of this. And remember, I've done *nothing* to it. 2 old Jeeps in my group had to limp home with wet distributors.
I hate carburetors and distributors. Different strokes for different folks. Having been trained as a powertrain engineer, I *get* these systems and they're very easy to understand and repair. Those who complain about them just haven't made the jump. My early life where I was dealing with carburetors and such are full of plugged jets, mis-adjusted floats, and varnish. Difficult starting, lean when hot... worn points, cracked distributors, disintegrated coils. These things always leave you guessing as to the root cause, and they are NOT all as trail-fixable as people like to suggest. People like to point out about how a blown crank position sensor will leave you stranded. Ever have a stripped distributor gear? That'll leave you stranded too. People who prefer old things look at the CPS and say "see, there's something new that can go wrong that I don't have". Yeah, but you need to subtract the probably of stripping a distributor gear because we don't have one of those.
Look at the water line here. I have done exactly zero electrical preparation, and had zero problems with 3 days of water like this.
Just in case there's any doubt as to the height of the water...
I know others have been through deeper, particularly with diesels. I'm not claiming this is the ultimate. But some people think the electronics are not even capable of this. And remember, I've done *nothing* to it. 2 old Jeeps in my group had to limp home with wet distributors.
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Antichrist
Expedition Leader
You can, only it would be with a bit of work, like I'm doing to mine.
Electric sunroofs died, replaced with manual sunroofs. (or you could just have one with no sunroofs.
Window ECU's died, replacing with manual windows.
V8 getting tired. Replacing with a 300Tdi.
5-speed gearbox.
The only electrical thing I haven't seen a ready mechanical replacement for is the speedometer.
Once all that's done I won't need the gazillion relays, ECU's etc.
For me, if I look at it with the thought, "If it won't keep running and working after an EMP blast, it's too complicated." then I have it about right.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Tom, there are lots of electronic speedos available to the hotrod community that would be servicable for you. But as I'm sure you're aware, rigging up a mechanical one would be pretty impractical. And unecessary since having a working speedo isn't really necessary in a post apocalyptic world.