Freelander as an overland vehicle?

[Mike_rupp]

Moderator Note: This post and the ones following were moved from "Kitting a Freelander" to help separate if someone should first buy a Freelander or not.

If the guy is serious about going off-road, advise him to dump the Freelander and look for something else. If he wants to stay in the LR family, I recommend buying a 04 Discovery2 or a Discovery1. Adding things to the Freelander is throwing good money after bad.

 

[timmy!!!!!!!]

I am going to have to agree there. Freelanders are big time money pits. I know of people that have gone through 3 engines and 2 transmissions before 100k.

 

[michaels]

it's not about how capable or not they are off road. he may not have had problems YET, but trust me he will. this is not the vehicle you want to be using for this kind of travel. tell him to unload it for a DI or DII or some other vehicle similar to teh freelander, such as a subaru or something.

the freelander will fail him.

 

[emmodg]

Why spend money "kitting" a Freelander when you can get a nice D1 and build it for just a little more? Sell the Freelander and get something that can actually be "kitted".

 

[emmodg]

Always surprises me when folk go on about stuff they no so little about!

Frrebie is good for overland travel (proper overland travel not your back yard camping/big tyres/look at me cr*p). Like any vehicle it has limitations but once you know them you can compensate.

You need to beef up the sump guard - try Mantec as they made the Camel spec guard

Safety Devices made a few bits and bobs as well

Safari Guard make a good snorkel

TJM do springs/struts

SuperPro do a cracking bush kit for the cr*ppy rear diff mounting

The V6 has isues with cooling so an Alisport Rad is a worthwhile addition

Cargo space is limited but adding a dog guard allows you to stack

Just remember the IRD and the Viscous coupling are always going to be week points...

I'm an off road driving instructor for the US Military. I've trained in 1151, and 1152 HUMVEES, Toyota Hilux's AND Land Rovers. I also facilitate Land Rover Dealer Events. (I know a little about what I'm talking about.) The Freelander was an answer to dwindling Land Rover Sales when pitted against the small Japanese SUV market. It was not designed for extensive travel off road. There are some LR Dealers who will not take them on trade, they are VERY hard to get rid of. Some LR Mechanics refuse to work on them. COUNTLESS times have I had to go back down a trail to recover a piece of trim moulding off a Freelander for a customer. We perform dealer events on easy moderate trails and the Freelanders have a hard time accomplishing a great deal of the "obstacles".

For what you put into "kit" for a Freelander you could buy a MUCH MORE capable D1 right out of the box! Start with a good base vehicle now and you won't be lacking later.

 

[Nonimouse]

Oddly enough I know a little about off road driving myself; what with being an off road instructor of 20 years standing, having taught off road driving to the British Military (S3 LR's, 110, 90, RB' etc), worked for Land Rover Experience as a Senior Instructor (pre marketing tool days) including developing the Freelander commercial driver course; and worked as guide, instructor and expedition leader for the odd 'other company'. Add to this well over 20 years of international overland travel (sometimes in DPM) on four continents in a huge variety of vehicles. So when it comes to seeing how high we can pee up the wall, I'm pretty much up by the cistern.

Freelander was developed as an answer to Honda's CRV and HRV, along with the RAV4 and other soft roaders - but it was always intended as more than just a stop gap measure. It had to be better off road to keep up the LR name - and it is. In fact it is better off road than many supposed hard core off roaders out of the packet. It's only fault (in triptronic form) is ground clearence. Sadly in Td4 manual form the clutch is made of stale processed cheese; and in the old perkins lump form, give the clutch a beasting and you lunched the IRD. The K series engine is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Sadly the V6 is stifled by US and EU emission rules but that can be worked on.

Something that is noticeable abnout this forum and it's 'parent' magazine that it has a tendancy to forget that real world overlanding is not about just how much money you can spend, it's how far you can get on a tight budget whilst collecting memories that will be there for the rest of your life.

So if your man has a Freebie and wants to overland - let him! Help him, be constructive, guide him to his goal. Never forget that you can travel the Sahara in a Merc saloon or a Rover diesel - all it takes is a bit of nonce and the b*lls to give it a go.

 

[emmodg]

Oddly enough I know a little about off road driving myself; what with being an off road instructor of 20 years standing, having taught off road driving to the British Military (S3 LR's, 110, 90, RB' etc), worked for Land Rover Experience as a Senior Instructor (pre marketing tool days) including developing the Freelander commercial driver course; and worked as guide, instructor and expedition leader for the odd 'other company'. Add to this well over 20 years of international overland travel (sometimes in DPM) on four continents in a huge variety of vehicles. So when it comes to seeing how high we can pee up the wall, I'm pretty much up by the cistern.

Freelander was developed as an answer to Honda's CRV and HRV, along with the RAV4 and other soft roaders - but it was always intended as more than just a stop gap measure. It had to be better off road to keep up the LR name - and it is. In fact it is better off road than many supposed hard core off roaders out of the packet. It's only fault (in triptronic form) is ground clearence. Sadly in Td4 manual form the clutch is made of stale processed cheese; and in the old perkins lump form, give the clutch a beasting and you lunched the IRD. The K series engine is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Sadly the V6 is stifled by US and EU emission rules but that can be worked on.

Something that is noticeable abnout this forum and it's 'parent' magazine that it has a tendancy to forget that real world overlanding is not about just how much money you can spend, it's how far you can get on a tight budget whilst collecting memories that will be there for the rest of your life.

So if your man has a Freebie and wants to overland - let him! Help him, be constructive, guide him to his goal. Never forget that you can travel the Sahara in a Merc saloon or a Rover diesel - all it takes is a bit of nonce and the b*lls to give it a go.

Not in a pissing match there "kick MMM". Just a reminder that before you make comments as to what people here on this board know and don't know, you should think BEFORE you speak.

Like I said, and you have now said, the Freelander was an attempt at small Jap. SUV's. It was a "defensive" design in response to lost sales. You made my point.

I am in full agreement that this "vehicle dependent" stuff is becoming more and more about how much you can spend. $1400 for lights, $500 for a Line-X'd tool drawer, titanium spoons and forks and $600 air compressors! It's more about what you have than where you go.

 

[Nonimouse]

Fair do's. You have a point. It's rare for me not to plan a response through - one of the reasons I post so little, but this thread got my goat and you waved a red flag. Therefore the defensive stand against Freelander negativity. My apologies.

At least we agree on needless spendy uber bling. Your man Mr Hanson got eh biscuit in the last issue of OJ - $1,400 for a set of castor corrected radius arms! Even Equipe don't charge that.

 

[FlexdXJ]

I would tell him to get a Disco 1 or 2 as well. I have noticed that like my XJ you can find a "good" disco for relatively cheap that has already had some work done. I wouldn't mind having a disco to drive around since they ride way better than my XJ(until i get my OME springs on anyways), even though they have far more reliability issues than my 4.0 AW4 w/an NP231 t-case.

 

[RoverMack]

I think it is fair to say the US spec freelander was not one of LR's greatest accomplishments. The Freelander almost makes the RR P38 look good.

The euro diesel soccer mum freelanders sold well in the UK, and their traction control and relative light weight does enable them to perform well on wet grassy fields and snow. That is my limited experience back in the UK.

However based on first hand experience on a trip to Mexico a G4 Freelander did take the highway home early because the transmission ( auto with no low range) was overheating on the loose sand. The trails were not difficult and with some rock stacking and spotting plus a few pulls the freelander was fine, but the continual slogging through loose sand and gravel was more than the transmission and brakes could handle.
The engine issues are very real. Apparently just a matter of when rather than if. I do not normally come across as negative regarding anyones choice of vehicle but in this case, sell it because selling it with a blown engine is going to be rather difficult and $.
I appreciate the reasons for not selling or changing vehicle but the freelander is a special case.

This is what proved too much for the freelander although it did make it home on the highway without any further problems once the transmission had cooled down.

 

[Antichrist]

Something that is noticeable abnout this forum and it's 'parent' magazine that it has a tendancy to forget that real world overlanding is not about just how much money you can spend, it's how far you can get on a tight budget whilst collecting memories that will be there for the rest of your life.

Pretty accurate statement there. But it's just not here, you find it in a lot of places these days, people feeling they need the "best of the best of the best" and those who don't, being mocked. I'm sure many would laugh at my $25 tractor floods for off-roading, but my feeling is that when off-road I'm generally traveling at tractor speeds plus things tend to get broken, and I'd rather replace a $25 light than a $200 light. I don't ever expect to see them in an "Off-road Lighting Shootout" article.

That said, I think the suggestion of selling the Freelander and getting a Discovery stems not from people thinking you need to spend a lot of money to do overland travel, but from other reasons.

First, my assumption is that the Freelander is in decent shape and he wants to stay with Land Rovers.
Yes, the Freelander will surely do fine for "mild expeditionary travel" as the OP said, but once the bug bites, the person will likely move beyond mild and the Freelander's shortcomings will begin to show. At that point, the market value of his Freelander will have dropped because of the add-on kit (Freelander owners are more likely to be around town drivers and don't want the kit) and off-road abuse. Not to mention possible mechanical issues from that abuse. So the person wants to sell it and move to a more capable vehicle, but will get less money for it.

Amazingly, here in the US the market for used Freelanders is pretty good, if Autotrader is anything to go by, while the market for used Discovery's is not that great.
Based on that, the person could sell the Freelander and buy a D1 and have money left over for kitting out the Discovery (while being able to choose from a much broader range of kit, not to mention finding perfectly servicable used kit).
But even without a lot of kit, with a decent set of tires the stock Discovery will fare better than the kitted out Freelander, so the person could do a lot of "mild expeditionary travel" while deciding what kit he wants for his Discovery. If the bug really bites and he wants to get better mileage, putting a diesel in his Discovery would be an easy conversion.

Maybe he is totally in love with his Freelander and won't sell it for anything, so no amount of rational argument is worth anything. However, if that's not the case, before he starts spending $$ on kit for it I strongly suggest at least doing some looking at what he'd get selling his Freelander vs. what he could buy a D1 in good shape for.

 

[emmodg]

Man, I am all for supporting a fellow "Roverphile" in an attempt at a build-up but why not start with a CHEAPER and yet MORE CAPABLE base vehicle? I PROMISE you he'd be more happy in the long run!

 

[TeriAnn]

For what you put into "kit" for a Freelander you could buy a MUCH MORE capable D1 right out of the box! Start with a good base vehicle now and you won't be lacking later.

Good advice if you KNOW the owner is going to do some serious driving. But only one person here knows the driver. Most kitted 4X4s in the States see nothing more serious than a maintained dirt road or a muddy corner vacant lot. There are a lot of well kitted mall terrain vehicles out there.

Maybe the owner wants to be more associated with the "look" while doing some camping at park campgrounds. There are a lot of dirt roads that can take you out to a lot of scenic places, nice camp grounds and not stress most vehicles. Maybe that's really what the guy wants to do.

As long as the guy knows his vehicle platform has limited off road performance and he accepts that, help him build his dream, whatever it may be.

It has taken me a long time to get to this philosophy of drive and let drive. Not all that long ago I would be arguing that Discos or Rangies were not worth owning. But I eventually learned that many people are actually happy with them and the vehicles meet their needs. So why not extend disbelief far enough to include Freelanders. The important thing is that the owner is happy and following his dream. Not what we may personally think about his dream or level of sanity.

 

[bigreen505]

There are a lot of dirt roads that can take you out to a lot of scenic places, nice camp grounds and not stress most vehicles. Maybe that's really what the guy wants to do.

As long as the guy knows his vehicle platform has limited off road performance and he accepts that, help him build his dream, whatever it may be.

TeriAnn offers some pretty salient advice. I would say about half of my (local) travels are in the Trooper and the other half in the Subaru. Sometimes I need all the ground clearance I can get, sometimes I don't. The Outback will get me to the trailhead for hiking and drive graded dirt roads all day just fine, at 27 mpg, faster and more comfortable.

Reading all the comments, I don't think anyone is bashing the capability of the Freelander, but rather voicing concerns about the long term reliability and durability.

 

[Connie]

? I started reading this thread because it was messing with my head, every time I saw the title I saw "Knitting a Freelander".

I don't know much about them so I didn't have much to contribute as far as which suspension and roof rack.

I do want to comment on the "Parent Magazine" comments. The magazine is far newer than this forum. As a big fan of the magazine I feel the need to jump to it's defense a little. The magazine IS about the trip. Getting as far as you can. People visiting places that had never entered the radar for many of us. Okay and yes there is the Gear issue. But I like how available options are presented side by side, pros and cons etc.

I was so nervous when we got our fridge in 2003 because there was only so much research that I could do to find out which was most reliable. We have to store medication in it, so it is crucial that it function correctly. One round of ruined medication = 33% of the cost of the fridge. So this is not an expensive option. But I would have liked to know what other peoples' experiences were before taking the plunge.

Our corner protectors saved us a bundle as we were run into twice once by a reckless taxi and once by our traveling companions. Aluminum panels would have crumpled but the protectors merely got a tiny scratch (and who knows how many others gave us a wide berth in the crazy traffic just because the truck looked like it could cause them more damage than they were willing to incur by hitting us).

Our RTT never failed and for cost per night used it was super cheap, but I only had experience with one brand before we bought ours and I like to know all of the details of the others.

Our suspension failed, and perhaps we didn't need an "upgrade" as aggressive as we got, but we didn't know that at the time.

Our transmission failed, and it was through a forum like this that we were able to procure a new one when we were out in the middle of No and Where. Locals wanted to charge us 5,000 Euros for a used one ("Better than new") that wasn't even the right transmission.

Oh another piece of equipment that wasn't cheap, Sat. Phone, which we used to call someone to find out that the transmission had a known failure issue. We also used it to find out what was going on with the scary bleeding issue one of us was having by calling the Travel Doctor back in the US. (Again in the middle of nowhere).

I like the magazine gear reviews because if I have decided that I need a particular piece of gear, I want the best one. To quote the magazine "Cry once" and never have to replace it.

The OP wanted the benefit of the experience of those on this forum. It has nothing to do with how much the stuff costs, just what his friend needs, to do what he wants to do. And with about 30% better fuel economy than the Discovery, and with it already being paid off, there's nothing wrong with wanting to adapt the Freelander for his purpose.

It has taken me a long time to get to this philosophy of drive and let drive.

I like that!