Gears and Locker questions

[Rexsname]

I will be re-gearing my Tacoma within the next two months or so and I have a couple of questions for the collective membership.

I have searched this and several other "boards" and have learned that new gear break-in goes something like this..... Drive for 10 minutes, let the diffs cool all the way down and then repeat as needed untill you reach 500 miles. Drain, refill with synthetic fluid and live happily everafter. OK heres the question.....How the heck do I get home at 15 or 20 miles covered in one hour? If I go down to Phoenix to have the work done would it be worth my while to just have them put the truck up on stands and set the cruise-control for 10 minutes at a time to do the break-in? It's quite big chunk of change to have this work done and I want to do the break-in properly. If there was a shop here in town that I trusted to do this type of work it would make things much easier but thats just not the case. Also there is the issue of proper break-in for the front differential. How the heck is that done? Will the gear break-in OK just by free wheeling? The Tacoma has the ADD front end and I think that most everything turns even when it's in 2WD.

OK now for the front locker, Moab was the most burliest gnarliest WOW wheelin that I've done. That being said, there have been a couple of instances where a locked front end would have been a help for that two or three feet that it would have been a help. Scott has a locker in his Taco. Chris has a locker in his. Chris, I saw the Hackberry video and have to wonder, wouldn't it have been do-able to just back up a bit and taken a slightly different line? I am WAY paranoid about breaking a front half-shaft or CV joint.

Some of you have wheeled with me and know that I try to wheel gently and smoothly (except for that one very expensive ooooops on Hells Revenge) and I have the Marlin Crawler that makes things a bit easier so do I really need the locker?

The reason for the re-gear is that we pull a 10 x 7 single axle trailer several months a year and the fuel mileage really takes a hit when pulling. I have 4.10s and 32" tires and will end up with 4.88s and 33". I rarely excede 60mph when pulling or 75 mph when not pulling.

Long rambeling post I know, but I'm about all searched out.
Thanks for your well thought out, well reasoned replies!


REX

 

[ujoint]

I'm not an expert on the Toyota's, but I can chime in on the gear break in. I worked at a major offroad shop here in LA and we did allot of gear jobs/axle builds. I told everyone the same thing for 5 years & never had an issue. We simply said to avoid towing or any full throttle take off for the first few hundred miles. Basically, take it easy. If the fluid needs to be changed in under 1000 miles, something is wrong. Cheap bearings were used or there's a terrible pattern. You'll know the latter, you'll hear it.

 

[IntrepidXJ]

gear break-in goes something like this..... Drive for 10 minutes, let the diffs cool all the way down and then repeat as needed untill you reach 500 miles.

you only do that one time.....the first time you drive it with the new gears. then you are supposed to just take it easy for the rest of the 500 miles. then change your gear oil.

personally, aside from that first cool down, i have never done anything else special during gear break in, and i've setup a number of gears with no issues.

 

[pray4surf]

www.gearinstalls.com

Local to the Phoenix area, Great rep. Trusted him to regear my rear third, only drawback, he doesn't do fronts... But he'll answer any questions you might have....

Tell him pray4surf sent you....

Rick

 

[Jeep]

I agree with ujointclothing, we do a couple of warm up cool down cycles, nothing heavy for 500 miles and do recommend an oil change. We have warranty replaced only one gearset in over 500 installs in which the gears were deffective.

 

[bj70_guy]

Hey, if you're going to the trouble and expense of re-gearing, why not throw in the locker now? Think of the money you'll save NOT having to re-do the R+P set-up again in 9 months when you decide you really wanted that locker after all...

You're welcome :elkgrin:

 

[p1michaud]

Gears and lockers.

www.gearinstalls.com

I would definately have Zuk re-gear your diff. He's got tons of great information on that site and is very very helpful. He was an invaluble ressource when I re-geared my diffs.

As others have mentionned, the key during gear break in is to not over heat your gears and bearings. From what I have read it's normal for housings to get up to 140 -170 deg. F after a re-gear. That's a ball park number. I was trying to get my head arroud what temperature is normal and had posted this over on TTORA when I re-geared: Re-gear and diff temperature.

For the sake of comparison, when re rebuild gearboxes (new bearings and new gears when required) at work part of the run in procedure is to put them on a test bench, run them for two hours and monitor temperature. The typical termperature curve peaks at 160 - 170 deg. F after 15-30 minutes and slowly tapers off over time to approximately 115 deg. F. In my opinion, if one were to monitor the temperature of your rear diff over time the same phenomenon should occur. I'm not 100% positive because I've never monitored it. This could be done relatively easily by using a non-contact IR thermometer and keeping a log for the fist few trips out with the rig. This would be a good test for the Overland Journal staff in a future issue!

Front gear break it. Focus on getting the rear gears properly broken in. Once that is complete, you can start working on the front gears. One of the easier ways is to pick a nice dirt road and go for a drive. As you drive along, put the truck in 4WD for short periods say 5 to 15 min range then take it out of 4WD for a longer period say 15 to 30 min. Repeat this process untill you get to 500 miles. The nice thing about it is you can do this over a period of months if required. :safari-rig:

Front locker. If you go to the trouble of re-gearing your front diff and are remotely considering a front locker, take the opportunity to install an ARB RD-90 while you are at it. Otherwise you have to pay for twice the labour (if you install one down the road). I'm not sure if you had seen this thread: Front lockers but it's worth the read. I originally put gears in, the one month later installed an ARB RD-90. Trust me you should do it at the same time. I'm more than satisfied with my ARB and have used it sparringly (4-5 times) since it's been installed with no problem. Great decision.

Cheers and good luck!
P

 

[Rexsname]

It's that sparing use that gets me. 4 or 5 times works out to almost $300 per use! I read and read the different threads on front lockers and also the tru-Tracs. That lead me to the conclusion that it would be the ARB or nothing. I mentioned a video that showed BajaTaco on an obstical. That seemed to be the 'classic' use of a locker on an IFS truck. Cool. But for $1500, couldn't I just take another line and try again?

It would be way cool to have a front locker, don't get me wrong, but MAN! thats a lot of money.

REX

 

[p1michaud]

ARB Front Locker

I agree that it's expensive, however why $1500? A new locker is in the $750 range and you are already installing new gears so no additional install fees. Pick up an ARB compact compressor for $150 or so then plug and play. For less than $1000 you could have a locker.

I've used it 4-5 times since this June. So over time, the cost per use will drop. BajaTaco has said it the best, a front locker is just anohter tool in your arsenal. If you don't have a front locker, and you get into a situation where you can't get through/over with the rear locker only they you start resorting to your recovery skills. Take a strap, use a winch, use your Hi-Lift, stack rocks, shovel a bit, etc... There is nothing wrong with resorting to any of the above tools.

To quote another cool Dude: “Buy the best, cry once…”.

Cheers,
P

It's that sparing use that gets me. 4 or 5 times works out to almost $300 per use! I read and read the different threads on front lockers and also the tru-Tracs. That lead me to the conclusion that it would be the ARB or nothing. I mentioned a video that showed BajaTaco on an obstical. That seemed to be the 'classic' use of a locker on an IFS truck. Cool. But for $1500, couldn't I just take another line and try again?

It would be way cool to have a front locker, don't get me wrong, but MAN! thats a lot of money.

REX

 

[chet]

if your pulling it apart to do gears now is the time for lockers. If you can't afford lockers hold off on the gear install until you can afford them. doing R&P set-ups twice is not that much fun and costs. Setting up an ARB will cost extra over doing a regular R&P set-up because they have the air line to route and drill a hole for etc.

 

[TeriAnn]

But for $1500, couldn't I just take another line and try again? It would be way cool to have a front locker, don't get me wrong, but MAN! thats a lot of money.

I haven't traveled with you and don't know your experience level so please don't take this wrong. But for my $$$ the best off road upgrade anyone can do is to put time on the trail with open diffs. Lots of folks gear up early on because it allows them to get through obstacles that they don't have the skills for. If you put a lot of trail hours in with open diffs you learn how to judge the best lines through something. Minimizing vehicle damage is all about approach lines. Getting through the real nasty stuff is all about approach lines. Getting through with open diffs and maybe a winch teaches you all about picking approach lines and how your vehicle handles.

One piece of essential equipment is an onboard air pump. I have a Quickair2 that handles my rear ARB and gets used to air up. I understand that ARB has a new high volume air pump that is dual purpose as well. Running open diff with aired down tyres will also help you learn to judge what air pressure is helpful going over different surfaces. There's a lot you can learn from putting lots of off road miles on open diffs and lockers easily become crutches to be used in lieu of good trailing skills.

That said, it were me on a limited budget installing new R&Ps at both ends, I would go ahead and install an ARB in the rear and decide to wait 3 or 4 years before adding one up front. Yes if you decide to put an ARB up front you will have to pay to have the R&P set up twice, but with a couple years between paying for things you should be better able to take the pocket book hit. If you had to put a second ARB on a credit card you might end up paying more in interest than the cost of setting up a R&P. So you might actually save money by waiting. Or with a few years trail experience with the rear ARB you may decide that you don't need a front ARB for the kind of traveling that you do.

And just because you add an ARB to the rear it doesn't mean that you need to hook it up right away. That really should depend upon your driving skills. If you are already very good at picking lines of least resistance and working through obstacles with minimum damage with open diffs, go ahead & hook it to your compressor.

Learn how a rear locker affects your vehicle's handling and explore your vehicles new handling limits before deciding to add a front ARB. You might decide that it isn't worth the money for the kinds of driving that you do.

Front Lockers are best for straight line climbs on solid surfaces like slick rock. If you do a lot of mud, sand or loose stuff work where you like to work the font wheels to maximize tyre edge bight, you are better off with an automatic torque biasing diff than a locker. If you spend a lot of time on ice you might be best off with studs or chains and an open diff.

My bottom line suggesting is:


1. There is no better off road driving techniques teacher than open diffs.

2. You can always get through more stuff with a rear locker

3. A locked front end is only the best solution under limited types of terrain.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I cannot say how much I enjoy reading that Teriann as someone who drove open-only for years...

 

[Rexsname]

Thank you TeriAnn for that response. The rear differential has an Electric locker as a factory option. I have used this as my 'magic wand' in the past. When I first got the truck I would leave it locked almost as soon as I hit the dirt. Now that I have a few years with this truck I typicaly leave it alone until/unless I feel the rear tires start to slip. (tyres?) I then turn on the rear locker and shut it off just as soon as I can to be easier on the truck. There is usualy a bit of driveline bind that doesn't allow the locker to let go untill everything is turning freely. If I listen carefuly I can hear a 'click' and then the indicator light goes out to confirm what I have heard. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to leave the front differential open and allow everyone a free "I told you so!" when I make the mistake of whining about my decision.

I very much want to stay with the "Do it right, the first time" mantra that makes the most sense but I just dont think this is money that needs to be spent with this truck. I have a wife to spoil and she is WAY more important than a front locker could ever be.

REX

 

[TeriAnn]

I cannot say how much I enjoy reading that Teriann as someone who drove open-only for years...

I drove my Land Rover open diff for 18 years before upgrading to a rear ARB. I guess I'm just a slow learner

I felt driving open diff taught me a lot about driving.

 

[xcmountain80]

if your pulling it apart to do gears now is the time for lockers. If you can't afford lockers hold off on the gear install until you can afford them. doing R&P set-ups twice is not that much fun and costs. Setting up an ARB will cost extra over doing a regular R&P set-up because they have the air line to route and drill a hole for etc.

This was my approach, I wanted to re-gear but had to hold off because I didn't want to do it twice. Put a Detroit LSD in the rear and a Aussie Locker and Manual hubs up front.

Aaron