Gore-tex Parka

[washington taco]

Argeed GoreTex is the best! Wasted 55.00 on a pair of Burton gloves last year that were water prof, but were not. Just spent 135.00 on Hestra GoreTex army glove highly rated, but have no dout that it will work! This is the same material in my jacket and pants.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Patagonia is for Yuppies in the coffee shops, not for big mountains where sub par gear will get you killed.

Yeah, and it's too bad, because it used to be good 10-15 years ago. The North Face is kinda going down the same road. You can still get good stuff, but they are "selling out" the brand with yuppy gear.

I don't wear any of my good stuff unless I'm actually outside and active. I wear a leather jacket, or EB field jacket when shopping, work etc.

If you look at any serious outdoor apparel manufacturer that has their own waterproof breathable membrane (Marmot, Outdoor Research, Mammut, The North Face, etc) They all use Gore-Tex in their top tier, your life may depend upon it, gear.

Absolutely. Same deal with MEC. They have some off-branded membranes on their less expensive stuff, but the top line stuff is all Gore-Tex. And I don't think that's "just because the name", because the stuff *works*.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Patagonia is for Yuppies in the coffee shops, not for big mountains where sub par gear will get you killed.

Dave

I love Patagucchi. I tend to really like their casual offerings for exactly what you describe - coffee shops and bar stools. However, it's tough to ignore the fact that some of the best alpinists in the sport are decked head to toe in Patagonia. It really does work. Capaline alone set the bar for base layers. I have a few Gore-Tex shell jackets, down sweaters and softshell pants that I would (and have) used on high peaks in Colorado, Alaska, the Alps, etc. I'd much rather use Patagonia than The North Face on average.

 

[MoGas]

I agree. But you probably work there!

Probably....eepwall:

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Dave not to critique you and I agree about Patagucci being annoyingly popular among yuppies in casual settings. And their perspective on land use issues is obnoxious.. But other than that largely for reasons Christophe mentioned these two statements are pretty much totally untrue.. Their stuff is still the best right up there with the other manufacturures and Gore-Tex, period, is a 20+ year old material. You are comparing a material designed in the 80s to something that might be 4+ years old. It does work for waterproofness but for many reasons it is outdated and this is directly from the horses mouths of many of the top gear engineers... This is wide spread common knowledge in the industry. I mostly know this because I share my shop with a top gear designer for many of the brands you have all heard off, everything from Cloudveil to Mammut to REI to now all of Backcountry.com's inhouse brands... I hope it helps...

Gore-Tex sets the standard for waterproof breathable membranes.


If you look at any serious outdoor apparel manufacturer that has their own waterproof breathable membrane (Marmot, Outdoor Research, Mammut, The North Face, etc) They all use Gore-Tex in their top tier, your life may depend upon it, gear.

Patagonia is for Yuppies in the coffee shops, not for big mountains where sub par gear will get you killed.




Dave

 

[Street Wolf]

Nothing touches GorTex as far as doing what it's meant to do.

/thread

 

[Ryanmb21]

I'm looking for a new shell and all the technology is confusing. A floor person at the local REI (who seemed very knowledable and lots of experience) told me much of the same that Gore-tex was very waterproof but not as breathable as some of the other stuff.

It seems that Gore tex shells start at $300 which seems fine, but what shells would those in the know recommend?

 

[MoGas]

Their stuff is still the best right up there with the other manufacturures and Gore-Tex, period, is a 20+ year old material. You are comparing a material designed in the 80s to something that might be 4+ years old. It does work for waterproofness but for many reasons it is outdated and this is directly from the horses mouths of many of the top gear engineers... This is wide spread common knowledge in the industry. I mostly know this because I share my shop with a top gear designer for many of the brands you have all heard off, everything from Cloudveil to Mammut to REI to now all of Backcountry.com's inhouse brands... I hope it helps...

Here are some facts:

First introduced in 1978, GORE-TEX® fabric is created when we laminate our patented GORE-TEX® membrane to high-performance textiles, which are then used by authorized garment manufacturers to make outerwear, accessories, and footwear.

Only a limited number of specialist apparel manufacturers are licensed to use our fabric in accordance with our strict quality standards. We test every product design before it is approved for production and sell GORE-TEX® fabric only for the production of approved designs. Plus we guarantee the performance of all finished GORE-TEX® apparel, footwear, and accessories — not just the fabric from which the finished product is made.

So if your product says GORE-TEX® on the label, you know it carries the Guaranteed To Keep You Dry® promise, no matter who manufactured it or where you bought it.

GORE-TEX® fabric is available only to our licensed manufacturers, who create garments and footwear to our exacting standards.



Guaranteed To Keep You Dry®,

Dave

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I own a Goretex parka at my most heavy duty parka for skiing or anything hardcore. Am I proud that I bought one of the last Patagonia Goretex parkas verus whatever they use now? Sure a little.. It's also years old, has definitely taken its abuse, and is one of many many Goretex parkas I've owned since at least 1990 including daily heavy use when I used to fix hiking trails, none of which have ever let me down. So to be clear I am not knocking Goretex but as Dave pointed out it is not 20+ plus but rather 31 year old technology. It was invented as the first PC with memory was being invented, when the FJ40 was still in showrooms, when almost all cars had carburetors, and less than 4 years after Nixon resigned.

For summer climbing/mountaineering etc I use a Mountain Hardwear that is a taped single layer that I forget the name. It works just as fine. Basically you're paying for years of marketing brand name not a more advanced fabric. Is breathability important? Probably to some enthusiasts but not many. My theory on why many companies still use it - because its tried and trued and frankly because it has 20 years of marketing and all of us have experience with Goretex working just fine so why change it? Would I feel comfortable attempting to summit something that read Gore Tex? Absolutely.. Would I feel comfortable summiting something with some other off name that I'm told is just as good or better by a sales person, or by the Internet? Probably not... If I were to buy a $400 parka and saw one that is Goretex and one that is some other brand name, which would I choose?

But for example here are just some of the membranes from competitors. It is pretty obtuse to think that this one 31 year old fabric is better than others based on marketing material and pure speculation.

* eVent eVent fabrics
* Nikwax Directional Textiles as used by Páramo Directional Clothing Systems
* Sympatex
* 3-ply Entrant-EVmembrane Mountain Equipment Co-op
* AquaNix by Taiga Works
* Entrant by Toray Industries
* Dermizax byToray Industries
* Drilite Extreme, made by Mountain Equipment
* HyVent, made for The North Face by Toray.
* H2No, made for Patagonia, Inc by Toray.
* Omni-Tech by Columbia Sportswear
* Conduit, made by Mountain Hardwear
* Triplepoint Ceramic, made by Lowe Alpine
* Precip, made by Marmot
* Watergate, made by Outdoor Designs
* Epoxy
* Hyper-Dri by Mark's Work Wearhouse
* Ventile by Ventile
* Trilogy by Ripzone Ripzone
* Stormtech by Peter Storm
* C change by Schoeller textiles
* Texapore by Jack Wolfskin
* Water-resistant Cotton by OrganoClick
* Ared by Dare2B

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Gore-Tex is a waterproof/breathable fabric, and a registered trademark of W.L. Gore & Associates. It was co-invented by Wilbert L. Gore (1912-1986), Rowena Taylor, and Gore's son, Robert W. Gore. Robert Gore was granted U.S. Patent 3,953,566 on April 27, 1976, for a porous form of polytetrafluoroethylene with a micro-structure characterized by nodes interconnected by fibrils. Robert Gore, Rowena Taylor, and Samuel Allen were granted U.S. Patent 4,194,041 on March 18, 1980 for a "waterproof laminate."

Design
Schematic diagram of a composite Gore-Tex fabric for outdoor clothing.

Gore-Tex materials are typically based on thermo-mechanically expanded polytetrafluoroethylene and other fluoropolymer products. They are used in a wide variety of applications such as high performance fabrics, medical implants, filter media, insulation for wires and cables, gaskets, and sealants. However, Gore-Tex is best known for its use in protective, yet breathable, rain wear.

The simplest sort of rain wear is a two layer sandwich. The outer layer is typically nylon or polyester and provides strength. The inner one is polyurethane (abbreviated: PU), and provides water resistance, at the cost of breathability.

Early Gore-Tex fabric replaced the inner layer of PU with a thin, porous fluoropolymer membrane (Teflon) coating that is bonded to a fabric. This membrane had about 9 billion pores per square inch (around 1.4 billion pores per square centimeter). Each pore is approximately 1/20,000 the size of a water droplet, making it impenetrable to liquid water while still allowing the smaller sized water vapour molecules to pass through.

More recent fabrics such as eVent and Epic avoid the need for this inner PU coating[5] and have been shown to have higher breathability as a result, while still being rainproof.[6]


The wikipedia article that directly cites there are more advanced fabrics based on Goretex's original patent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore-Tex

Using http://www.prolitegear.com/site/xdpy/kb/00029/index.html
for reference


What a stupid argument of course... I'm pissed I allowed myself to even get sucked into it.

 

[MoGas]

What a stupid argument of course... I'm pissed I allowed myself to even get sucked into it.

Andre, don't be mad, I still love you......

I'm just passionate about one of our products is all.

Dave

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Hey you too dave.. . Man internet love...

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Entrant is the coating that was on my wife's jacket that failed way too soon. And I'm failing to see how the mere fact that something is *old* is bad? One of the key points for me in my preference for GoreTex is that they do take such care in working with the garment manufacturers to ensure the entire piece meets a standard.

 

[trailsurfer]

I ski front and back country 60-70 days a year in all conditions. From lift access, to Cat and Heli Skiing in every condition imaginable.

My jacket and pant choices are Patagonia, Arcterxy (GoreTex) , Cloudveil (GoreTex), and Westcomb (E-Vent). I am happy with all 4 manufacturers, and will continue to purchase their products.

I really like Patagonia, because they stand behind their products and if you ever have a problem, they will take care of it without any question or difficulty.

And Arcterxy is the gold standard for quality and craftsmanship.

 

[MarcFJ60]

I am by no means committed to Gore Tex. But based on my limited first hand knowledge, I know I will be happy with a well made GT jacket. I'd love to hear people's impressions of other waterproof fabrics, particularly their durability.

Gore Tex may be old, but I would bet most of the other fabrics are based upon the now expired GT patent. Maybe they improved it, or maybe they just changed it to put their name on it. that doesn't mean it is better. Wool is older than Gore Tex by a few million years, but even today there are some instances where it might be the best fabric for a particular use.

What I don't want to do is buy a jacket assuming the new fabric will work as well, or better, than GT. If users here say eVent, Hyvent, or Precip works as well I am willing to try it. But I would still be more comfortable with the tried and true performance of GoreTex. But I am also willing to find something better.

Any specific models?

And Arcterxy is the gold standard for quality and craftsmanship.

I know many people who feel Arcteryx is one of the best, if not the best, outdoor clothing manufacturers. But I have been seeing more and more reviews lately from people (who already own some Arcteryx clothing) unhappy with their latest generation Arcteryx gear. It sounds like some of the production, possibly all, has moved to China and the quality may have suffered. Again, no firsthand experience - just regurgitating what I've read.