GOVE Global Overland Vehicle Economical build.

[heimbig]

Bed being built

Bed construction started. DPF tank moved to right. I'm going to leave the DPF tank on the truck even when I leave the country but remove the exhaust pollution hardware and store it. If I need the OEM exhaust to bring back in to USA I'll ship the exhaust and reattach it thus making it legal in the USA again. I'll put new pipe and muffler where the OEM exhaust pollution hardware is and leave the rest of the OEM exhaust in place. Should be a bolt on/off.

In photo below, floor jack in rear is holding up the winch which will be attached to truck frame but stuffed as high as possible between the truck and bed frames.

Just in front of the winch is a large plate that will be the bed hinge point. Springs will ‘hold down' the front of the bed.

Below the winch we'll have a sloping plate that will help protect the rear Diesel tank and hitch mounted rather high in this sloping plate.

To be built:

• 30 Gal gasoline tank between truck and bed frame and resting on truck frame above Factory diesel tank.
• 65-85 gal auxiliary Diesel tank between truck and bed frame in front of rear wheels.

 

[heimbig]

DzlToy: In the end you won't save much money buying old and especially if you cannot find what you need and have to add that frame extension (an unreasonable idea IMHO) heavier suspension and stiffen the frame you are adding a lot of cost. For me dealing with unneeded pollution controls is the only practical downside to new. The extra cost of a new vehicle that is factory built to my specification is rather small compared to the project cost. I've done well buying new vehicles and keeping them forever, I see no reason to change that strategy.

The final vehicle won't be much different in size than foreign local delivery vehicle.

Earlier in this build blog there is a lot more discussion of truck choice.

I'm keeping detailed records of all expenses and will post them when done. Believe me I'm WAY below the cost of used vehicles of others, example ‘Hackney's BEV.' I really appreciate Hackneys open information and I intend to post in this blog all of my info/costs as well. I get the huge advantage of learning from others and Doug and others have responded to my many questions off list.

 

[heimbig]

Today I mounted the bumper (and winch inside) and All Fab mounted the rear winch and continues to work on the bed. The bumper really transformed the look. On Saturday, I'll be mounting the bumper's lights and running 4/0 wire from the auxiliary battery to the very end of the frame.


In Denver, here is the outside shell of the camper; the 'innards' are being built.

 

[adam88]

Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing. I am building a camper and went through the same debate you went through (new vs used). I ended up going with a 2006 super duty. So far it's been a great decision, as it was pre-2007 emissions crap and I saved a lot of money, but I can understand buying new too. That frame sure looks nice and shiny. Good clean platform to work off.

Without being critical, I am curious about a few things if you don't mind me asking:

1) Why did you go with an F-550 with a custom reinforced frame, and then go with a Phoenix Pop-Up camper? Won't there be a serious GVWR mismatch?
2) The stock tires look really smalll. I am guessing since you said Rickson tires, you are planning on keeping roughly stock dimensions. Did you consider going up to bigger tires and a lift? If you look through many of the expedition blogs on here, you will see that clearance is a huge part of getting around when overlanding overseas. Roads are crap and some of the tracks get wore down. With the big front differential and 32" tires, you may wish you had more clearance
3) Two winches? I am building a beast of a truck with 41" tires, lockers, etc. and I am debating just having one winch (due to cost, etc.). Most people who have winches rarely use them. Look at the Turtle Expedition blog... they just said yesterday they were using their winch for like the first time in many years. Finally getting some use of it. Where do you plan to go on 32" tires that will require a front and rear winch? Or do you just have an insane amount of money to blow?

Sorry if I seem critical, those were just a few things that didn't make a lot of sense to me. You seem to really be focused and I like your attention to deal. I do think there is a bit of.... what's the word I am looking for... "sofa building" going on here. What I mean is, you have done tons of research from your sofa and have this great idea of what to build, but you may be missing the practical part of it. You will build this amazing rig on dry pavement and then when you get it off road there will be things you wished you'd done, and other things you regret doing. It's part of any build... but I would definitely listen to a few people on here if any suggestions come up. One of the great things of having a "build thread" isn't just the fact you get to show everyone all the great stuff you are doing, but also that you get feedback and ideas from other people. Thanks again for sharing.

 

[heimbig]

Adam88: First I really appreciate the feedback from everyone - the more input the better and you make good points.

I wish I had 30 years of experience with 10 different off-road rigs but I don't – in fact - have any, other than dirt-biking, sailing, watching 4-wheeler TV shows and reading a bunch and emailing a couple guys who've done land circumnavigations. What I've learned so far is every vehicle has limits and each will be turned back by some condition.

My blog is getting long and it is hard for everyone to catch all the unique requirements - and some things have changed a bit.

I'm not primarily building an off road rig, my primary concerns are: fit in a shipping container, a certain level of comfort (I'm getting older), 1500 mi range, carry a 250 cc motorcycle(/life raft, fun machine), 2 mountain bikes, ability to stay ‘out' for at least 3 weeks unsupported in any environmental condition hot/cold/wet/dry. Due to 3rd world travel I want nothing ‘sticking out' and expensive bits hidden from view. Ability to remove camper and have a flatbed truck that can be used to serve others in remote areas of the world. Room for 4 – 5 people.

The rig needs to be usable/useful when we get back.

Use off-the-shelf as much as possible as custom is almost always more expensive. The custom built Phoenix pop-up is a huge exception to this rule and having it built to my specification was cheaper than buying a ‘pre-fab' camper and then modifying to meet our needs.

Before and after our global trip we'll use it for camping like any camper AND my wife is an outdoor photographer and will drive it by herself so she needs to be comfortable with every aspect of the rig.

Within above requirements be as off-road capable as practical.

I expect to be on a lot of ‘bad' roads, what Doug Hackney refers to as “market town roads” but I think we'll also be good for the rougher 2-wheel drive old beater pickup roads. And I've experienced both in Africa, SE Asia, and Baja so I have a good idea what sort of road we expect - and ‘road' of some sort will be the vast majority of our miles. Off road is a different matter as my rig won't be very good at certain types of off-road conditions including soft sand and extremely rocky. Also, In my thinking 4WD is to get me out of trouble not to get me into trouble, likewise for the winches.

Besides weight, the big off-road limitation would probably be the 200” wheelbase, I'll have pretty good approach and departure angles but between the wheels - not so good.

BTW, the frame isn't custom it was built that way by Ford.

To your points:

1)F-550 with Phoenix GVWR mismatch I assume you mean too big of a truck for ~1800 lbs camper. Add to that the ~1800 lbs of flatbed with storage boxes, 320lbs motorcycle, 100gal h2o, 120 gal diesel, 35 gal gasoline, 2 portable propane tanks, 2x100lbs batteries, generator, and 1200lbs+ of gear. So 2000 lbs of liquid. That puts me at 15,500 dry and 17,500 wet with vehicle gvwr of 19,500. One thing I've learned reading others posts on expeditionportal is most all over landers exceed their GVWR, I won't be (he-he I hope I don't have to eat those words).

2) those stock tires look awful including awful small. The Rickson allows me to get rid of the dually which are too wide for 3rd world and too wide for shipping container but will still be 19.5” (a globally available size) if desperate I might not find 285/70R19.5 but I will find 19.5 tires. At 35” the 285/70R19.5 are 3” taller than factory so 1.5”+ more ground clearance on the axle. The truck has a small factory lift of 2”. The rear axle will have about 10.5” of clearance. Globally it is pretty much 19.5 or 22.5 simi-truck wheels/tires. Tires any bigger than 285/70R19.5 will mean turning issues and/or width issues. So I think I'm stuck.

3) 2 winches. Adam88: You will probably be near others and someone will have a winch or be able to tow you. So, for me, it is primarily a safety factor. And I don't have any actual experience factor, so I don't know what I'm doing AND I cannot say where I'll go. It didn't add a lot to the cost compared to other features, the Rickson wheels/tires were FAR more expensive.

I would like to know other ideas about what can I do with-in the core requirements described above to make the vehicle more off road worthy – thanks. I may add lockers for the front, and full coverage skid plate / rock guards. Anything else?

 

[JRhetts]

I'm certainly not bragging here but there are authorized super duty centers in laos, cambodia and mongolia (but not vietnam, china, or thailand - lots of dealers though in those countries)

I looked long and hard at driving a Powerstroke-Ford to other continents. From what I could determine, the Powerstroke engine [whether built by International or Ford] is only used on the NoAm continent. Gas engines other places, but not the diesel. That means the locals will not be trained, have tools [i.e., computer] or be experienced on the PSD, and of course parts will be non- existent. Perhaps things have changed, but that would be pretty radical in so short a time.

I will strongly recommend a composting toilet [e.g., NaturesHead] over a cassette. Having used both extensively, you get more flexibility in dumping, longer intervals between dumps, and very much nicer process when you do.

 

[adam88]

Adam88: First I really appreciate the feedback from everyone - the more input the better and you make good points.

I wish I had 30 years of experience with 10 different off-road rigs but I don’t – in fact - have any, other than dirt-biking, sailing, watching 4-wheeler TV shows and reading a bunch and emailing a couple guys who’ve done land circumnavigations. What i've learned so far is every vehicle has limits and each will be turned back by some condition.

My blog is getting long and it is hard for everyone to catch all the unique requirements - and some things have changed a bit.

I’m not primarily building an off road rig, my primary concerns are: fit in a shipping container, a certain level of comfort (I’m getting older), 1500 mi range, carry a 250 cc motorcycle(/life raft, fun machine), 2 mountain bikes, ability to stay ‘out’ for at least 3 weeks unsupported. Due to 3rd world travel I want nothing ‘sticking out’ and expensive bits hidden from view. Ability to remove camper and have a flatbed truck that can be used to serve others in remote areas of the world. Room for 4 – 5 people.

The rig needs to be usable/useful when we get back.

Use off-the-shelf as much as possible as custom is almost always more expensive. The custom built Phoenix pop-up is a huge exception to this rule and having it built to my specification was cheaper than buying a ‘pre-fab’ camper and then modifying to meet our needs.

Before and after our global trip we’ll use it for camping like any camper AND my wife is an outdoor photographer and will drive it by herself so she needs to be comfortable with every aspect of the rig.

Within above requirements be as off-road capable as practical.

I expect to be on a lot of ‘bad’ roads, what Doug Hackney refers to as “market town roads” but I think we’ll also be good for the rougher 2-wheel drive old beater pickup roads. And I’ve experienced both in Africa, SE Asia, and Baja so I have a good idea what sort of road we expect - and ‘road’ of some sort will be the vast majority of our miles. Off road is a different matter as my rig won’t be very good at certain types of off-road conditions including soft sand and extremely rocky. Also, In my thinking 4WD is to get me out of trouble not to get me into trouble, likewise for the winches.

Besides weight, the big off-road limitation would probably be the 200” wheelbase, I’ll have pretty good approach and departure angles but between the wheels - not so good.

BTW, the frame isn’t custom it was built that way by Ford.

To your points:

1)F-550 with Phoenix GVWR mismatch I assume you mean too big of a truck for ~1800 lbs camper. Add to that the ~1800 lbs of flatbed with storage boxes, 320lbs motorcycle, 100gal h2o, 120 gal diesel, 35 gal gasoline, 2 portable propane tanks, 2x100lbs batteries, generator, and 1200lbs+ of gear. So 2000 lbs of liquid. That puts me at 15,500 dry and 17,500 wet with vehicle gvwr of 19,500. One thing I’ve learned reading others posts on expeditionportal is most all over landers exceed their GVWR, I won’t be (he-he I hope I don’t have to eat those words).

2) those stock tires look awful including awful small. The Rickson allows me to get rid of the dually which are too wide for 3rd world and too wide for shipping container but will still be 19.5” (a globally available size) if desperate I might not find 285/70R19.5 but I will find 19.5 tires. At 35” the 285/70R19.5 are 3” taller than factory so 1.5”+ more ground clearance on the axle. The truck has a small factory lift of 2”. The rear axle will have about 10.5” of clearance. Globally it is pretty much 19.5 or 22.5 simi-truck wheels/tires. Tires any bigger than 285/70R19.5 will mean turning issues and/or width issues. So I think I’m stuck.

3) 2 winches. Adam88: You will probably be near others and someone will have a winch or be able to tow you. So, for me, it is primarily a safety factor. And I don’t have any actual experience factor, so I don’t know what I’m doing AND I cannot say where I’ll go. It didn’t add a lot to the cost compared to other features, the Rickson wheels/tires were FAR more expensive.

I would like to know other ideas about what can I do with-in the core requirements described above to make the vehicle more off road worthy – thanks. I may add lockers for the front, and full coverage skid plate / rock guards. Anything else?

Hi there. Thanks for elaborating more. It sounds like you know what you're doing (I had no doubts). You say the F550 came with a 2" factory lift... that is why the tires look so small. It makes more sense.

As for safety additions, lockers and a compressor may be a good idea. If you want to use ARB air lockers, they are the best and will allow you to remain unlocked and only use them as needed. A compressor is probably one of the most important mods for a few reasons:

- Air tools
- You can use compressor air to clean dust off your vehicle (very handy)
- Airing up tires, or re-seating a bead
- Air lockers (possibly)
- Can be used for rear air bag suspension (if you decide to add air bags, which many do after riding stock suspension)

Other than that, HID lights (which I think you mentioned) are invaluable in other countries as there's of course no street lamps or house lamps, and no reflectors on the roads.

 

[adam88]

The Rickson allows me to get rid of the dually which are too wide for 3rd world and too wide for shipping container but will still be 19.5” (a globally available size) if desperate I might not find 285/70R19.5 but I will find 19.5 tires. At 35” the 285/70R19.5 are 3” taller than factory so 1.5”+ more ground clearance on the axle. The truck has a small factory lift of 2”. The rear axle will have about 10.5” of clearance. Globally it is pretty much 19.5 or 22.5 simi-truck wheels/tires. Tires any bigger than 285/70R19.5 will mean turning issues and/or width issues. So I think I'm stuck.

Hi heimbig,

I thought of another issue today. You said you are planning to run at up to 17,500# GVWR and you are converting to rickson 19.5" tires. But the Rickson wheels only support up to 5,000# each. This poses a problem for you in many ways:

If you run 17,500#, for you to be within Rickson wheel specs, it would mean a maximum of 10,000# on the rear wheels. This would mean 7,500# on the front axle, which would put the front axle over spec. Ford specifies the F550 front axle to be max of 7,000# on the 2013 F550.

But let's say you then go 17,000#... and you do 10,000# on the rear axle and 7000# on the front. That would keep you within ford specs. BUT....

1) You will never achieve this. Getting 7000# on the front axle is going to be IMPOSSIBLE with such a long wheel base and a crew cab. I predict your weight will more likely be something like 13,000# rear / 4,000# front. Weight will actually be removed from the front axle (from stock).
2) Even if you did manage to achieve this feat (10000#/7000#), your Rickson wheels would be running under full rated load capacity on the rear wheels, and that isn't ideal.

This was just something that crossed my mind. I think you should really take a look at how your weight will be centered, and then calculate load per wheel. Like I said, my guess is you will be closer to 13,000# / 4,000# when finished (rear axle / front axle). That would be 6,500# per wheel.

I would suggest maybe looking at higher capacity wheels and tires, like 22.5" wheels and tires. Or get a custom 20" wheel made. Having 6500# on a 19.5" tire/wheel from Rickson would make me nervous. My other suggestion would be to try and put more weight on the front, but with a crew cab it's near impossible to do. Even if you put a lot of weight on the front of the camper, it won't help much.

Hope this helps you consider this.

 

[heimbig]

weight distribution estimates and load limits

adam88: really good points and I have considered this and is a problem. The rickson ratings are a concern but it is a little better than you note, however the rickson wheels are not up to the F-550 GVW loads. Rickson front 4000lbs (8000 front) and rear 6395 (12,790). Ford spec is 7000 front and 14,706 for the rear. 6395 is also the load rating for the 285/70R19.5 tires. I got some assurance from Rickson that this wouldn't be a problem - but hey they are selling me stuff.

Likewise the front to rear load balance is a concern The front bumper/winch added ~ 300lbs in front of the front axle. The aux diesel fuel and water are located ~midship. and the camper will extend beyond the C/L of axle by about 3.5 of 16' feet. The rear winch is directly under the end of the 12' bed and the garage is 2' on the bed and 2' hanging out. so there is a bunch weight behind the axle.

My load estimates are 6000lbs in front of rear axle and 2600 lbs behind rear axle. so my wild and crazy estimate is for an additional 6000 lbs on the rear axle. But figures lie and liars figure so I can only hope that my estimates are close.

 

[adam88]

Rickson front 4000lbs (8000 front) and rear 6395 (12,790).

Are you getting Rickson Dualies? Where does the 6395# number come from? I thought you were converting the DRW to SRW? Or did I read wrong. If you are converting DRW to SRW then I am not sure why the rear wheels from rickson would have more capacity than the front.

Likewise the front to rear load balance is a concern The front bumper/winch added ~ 300lbs in front of the front axle. The aux diesel fuel and water are located ~midship. and the camper will extend beyond the C/L of axle by about 3.5 of 16' feet. The rear winch is directly under the end of the 12' bed and the garage is 2' on the bed and 2' hanging out. so there is a bunch weight behind the axle.

My load estimates are 6000lbs in front of rear axle and 2600 lbs behind rear axle. so my wild and crazy estimate is for an additional 6000 lbs on the rear axle. But figures lie and liars figure so I can only hope that my estimates are close.

The Ford Specs show your truck to be:

8612# = Curb Weight
5114# = Front
3498# = Rear

Let's say your camper ends up being around 6000# with everything loaded, water, bikes, tires, fuel. Let's say the COG (center of gravity) is directly over the rear axle, it would add 6000# to the rear axle, none to the front axle. For every inch the COG moves in either direction, you will either add 30# to the front axle, or remove 30# to the front axle. For instance, if your COG is 10 inches in front of the axle, it would look like this:

Your calculation would look like this:

6000 x 10 / 200.2 = 300 lbs

So even if your COG of your camper is 10 inches in front of your rear axle (tough to accomplish), it would add 5700# to the rear axle, and 300# to the front axle. This is because your WB is so long.

The best thing you can do for your design is to push all the heavy stuff (water, batteries, fuel) up against the back of your crew cab. This will help the COG get way up along the frame. The more heavy stuff the better.

 

[heimbig]

Are you getting Rickson Dualies? Where does the 6395# number come from? I thought you were converting the DRW to SRW? Or did I read wrong. If you are converting DRW to SRW then I am not sure why the rear wheels from rickson would have more capacity than the front.

Thanks for the conversation. passion = you care. and I appreciate that.

Check Rickson web site (or my quote which is the same) - the rear wheels are stronger on the DRW to SRW conversion.

The Ford Specs show your truck to be:

8612# = Curb Weight
5114# = Front
3498# = Rear

My estimated cargo is 8600 lbs (wet) and spread (unevenly) acoss the entire length of the vehicle.

There is no way to know where the C/G is until it is all built, but here are my spitball estimates:

If the entire load was centered over the rear axle then 8600 cargo + 3498 (base rear curb weight) = 12,098 Which means I'm (barely) under the GVW for the rear wheels/tires.

In order to fit in a container and have this cargo my only option was to go long. My cargo had to fit a long tube 7' tall (camper when down + under bed storage) by 7' wide and as as long as needed to fit my cargo. That truned out to be 27' from massive front bumper to end of garage. A shorter WB would have been a bigger problem for rear axle GVW.

My estimates of 6000lbs cargo in front of rear axle (some of that cargo is in front of the FRONT axle and some above AND in the cab) and 2600 lbs behind rear axle. With a little ballpark physics I'll estimate 2000 of the 6000 lbs will be added to the front axle so:

5114 front curb weight + 2000 estmate = 7114 front axle (which puts me over the Ford 7000 lbs rating)
3498 Rear curb weight + cargo of 4000 forward and 2600 aft of rear axle = 10098 final rear axle weight. I could easily be off by 1000lbs or more but even if I am, I should still be below the 12,790 of the rickson wheels.

It'll be interesting so see how it really turn out, and I'll post it.

Anyone who wants to ship in a container will be stuck with a similar calculation. The core problem is the cargo is NOT very dense. A cargo of the same mass but more dense one could have a shorter vehicle. I did what I could by having a pop-up to increase the density, but the fact is I'm hauling a lot of air.

 

[heimbig]

photo updates

Basic flatbed ready for priming. You can see the hinge point holes about 1.5' from end and spring load mounts a couple feet from front. Bed is almost exactly 12'x7':


Mounted rear winch. Winch bolted to mount which is bolted to truck frame. Winch will tuck up into the bed (but not connected to it). Also, truck to bed hinge point shown and bushings on fuel tank:


Bottom view of winch / hitch mount and 4/0 (-) cable run from Truck Aux battery to end of frame:

 

[heimbig]

I will strongly recommend a composting toilet [e.g., NaturesHead] over a cassette. Having used both extensively, you get more flexibility in dumping, longer intervals between dumps, and very much nicer process when you do.

Tell me more about the composting toilet. When I first read about these I assumed it was bogus. On more reading it seems to be very practical. 1) no water plumbed to it but certainly you have to wash/clean it? 2) does it really work? 3) can it be in a wet bath? 4) how does it 'flush'?
Thx,

Update:

I found JRhetts summary post on this subject
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...-months-full-time-usage?highlight=NaturesHead

and his 'request for comments'
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...any-hands-on-experience?highlight=NaturesHead

reviews on amazon.com were also useful:
http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Head-...F8&qid=1360356795&sr=8-1&keywords=NaturesHead

nice youtube video
http://youtu.be/nU_ybtLozFc

There is little information for RV / overland use. But most people who use the natureshead unit have positive experiences, some of the other units not so much. Looks like a great idea.

 

[DiploStrat]

At least one Provan Tiger has been built with a Nature's Head. We are going with the same model, based in part on JRHetts extended practical use. The Nature's Head has one nice feature for a wet bath, the seat cover comes down over the seat and should thus limit the amount of water that gets into the toilet when showering.

C-Head offers another, less expensive option (http://www.c-head.com) but lacks the neat, water resistant cover. This may not be that much of a real issue as most the water that sprays in will pass to the urine collection tank. (Assuming that there is some form of flap over the solids container.)

N.B. The trick of these beasts is to keep liquids out the solids container and vice versa. There is a "horror" video on the internet in which a young lady shows what happens when you get this wrong. It appears to me that she was pouring peat moss into the urine passages, got them blocked, and never noticed until the solids container was full of urine. Looks like pilot error to me.

The only question I have is what I would use in one of these when traveling in the third world. It looks like sawdust might work.

 

[Overland Hadley]

It looks like sawdust might work.

Sawdust or ashes work.