GOVE Global Overland Vehicle Economical build.

[heimbig]

I've been doing a bunch of research on tire and wheel alternatives and will post more complete information soon. BUT besides the off road 20x11 Hutchinson, they also build 19.5x8.25 bolt together for the F550. I think this will be a much better alternative for people wanting to stick with 19.5.

 

[heimbig]

Wheel and tire options for a loaded Ford F550

Wheels and tires for a loaded (2005 and later) Ford F550 (same wheels for 2008-up Dodge 4500/5500 and Sterling Bullet)

I read a bunch of blogs, did lots of internet research, called several wheel companies and adaptor builders. Here is my results.

My truck wheel ‘monolog’

Stock Aluminum dually. Has a lot going for it. Plenty strong, very light front, similar weight to super single in rear. With different tires, good traction. The stock wheels (6.00”) are too narrow for anything bigger than 225x70 tires. The factory Ford dually is aluminum outer, steel inner wheel. The wheels are polished one side, rear polished inside, and front on the outside.

5 factors (in order) motivate me to get rid of the factory dually: They are too wide and stick out 5” past my 7’ wide bed. I bought truck with 4.88 rear end ratio which is too low. From the beginning I’d planned on bigger tires to get the effective ratio to 4.10 to 4.30. They provide no extra clearance for the axles. The off-road use of dually is not recommended due to rocks and sticks getting picked up between them and rubbing a hole in the sidewall or causing other damage. The 19.5 tires are ‘regional’ type (only type available), and mine are all 6 steer tires (Conti HSR)

19.5 custom steel Rickson, my initial purchase. (If you can trust the build, you cannot trust the builder) does deliver 19.5 steel wheels with custom outsets (allowing fairly precise setting of front/rear wheels) but that do not meet the GVW of the vehicle. If you are careful with your design load front vs rear you might be ok. The front wheel should not be used as spares for the rears as Rickson recommend to me, the front wheels are rated 4000 lbs each but the rear requires 7,350 EACH so not even close. Rickson rear rated for 6395 so doesn’t meet OEM 7,350. The front wheel completely failed and fell apart after 4000, mostly highway, miles.

Driving experience with Rickson and 285/70R19.5. Smooth highway ride, seemed rough on 4x4 trail compared with factory setup. The Rickson solution definitely had ‘tail wag’ (feels like the rear is pushing you left and right) on the highway. I have the factory duals back on and there is very little tail wag.

My rear mounted Michelin XDE2+ did get pretty warm on the highway. The steer XZE2+ mounted on front didn’t heat up – of course they had MUCH less weight on them.

Rickson might be ok if your GVW was way under the F550 19,500. I would not recommend Rickson for anyone but especially not for a loaded F550.

19.5 Hutchinson 2 part bolt together 19.5X8.25 4.33 offset. Load rated 6830 lb @ 120 psi. This works great in the front and in the rear if you have an 8’ bed, but I’m at 7’ wide. These wheels would stick out as much as stock dually. If mounted like an inner wheel of dually then it isn’t even 7’ wide. Unlike the 20x11 Hutchinson there is not an inner ‘disk’ that allows you to change the outset. So, while a great option, it won’t work for me. BTW, there lots of tire choices including a much stronger HSR/HDR Conti 305/70R19.5 but unfortunately no off road and no construction (on/off) tires that I could find.

Firematic 19.5 Steel wheels not much information on their web site but they look sturdy and I’ve emailed for more info (updated: firematic are rickson wheels.

22.5 Semi-truck wheels (UPDATE: 11/17/14 starting on post 179: http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ehicle-Economical-build?p=1708046#post1708046 there is discussion about American Force Wheels who make 22.5 adaptor an option) Alcoa and Accuride build the perfect solution (IMHO) 22.5x9 wheel rated at 10,000 lbs with 3.12 inset (this is a small super single and cannot be used as a dually). When mounted with low profile 295/60 they are only 1” or 2” larger diameter than 295R70/19.5. The center ‘disk’ is about 1” thick. They are very cheap ~$300. Two problems: they do not direct bolt to F550 and the location of 550 lug holes (225mm Bolt Circle) is exactly where the 22.5 hub hole (220mm) is. Potential work arounds: An adaptor plate that bolts to wheel and separately to the truck lugs, somehow EarthRoamer does use them, but I note their 22.5 wheel is VERY wide on the truck - probably needed to build a sufficiently strong adaptor plate. (I emailed ER about their adaptors and they didn’t get back to me, their mount is way too wide for me so I didn’t pursue it). No one builds a commercial solution that I could find. A build-it-yourself solution is beyond what I’d do because I have no good way to test it. A second mount method would allow direct bolt (sort of): Machine an aluminum ‘donut’ and press fit it in the larger 22.5 hub hole (220mm), the donut would have the required 170.1 mm hub hole for the Ford. Then build a ½ or ¾ inch steel plate with machined bolt holes for 550 to cover the whole thing. BUT with 10 lug 550 and 10 lug 22.5 holes being right next to each other this might weaken the wheel too much. A blank (which can be ordered from Accuride, I verified this) would address the 2 sets of lug holes. BUT the hub hole is ALREADY in the blank and is bigger than 170.1mm. An Accuride blank simply has no lug holes. So: build a donut, press fit, drill lug holes and build a cover plate, MIGHT work. Still the wheel is .980" thick + .75” steel plate, lugs are only 2” long so still a problem. Seems like one of the adaptor builders could acquire the ‘blanks’, build a donut and clamping plate and replace the factory lugs with longer lugs. And do some testing. I think there would be a big demand. However, there are too many variables for me to pursue this. Maybe this is a job for Super-Hackney or one of those other crazy skilled people on expeditionportal.

20” custom Rickson wheels (if you trust Rickson and can tolerate the bad business practices) would be another option and this is what Gary Wescott (Turtle expedition) currently uses with Michelin XZLs. Front and rear are different but I believe could be mounted in either location. Rickson web site says nothing about this option and I couldn’t determine if front and rear are different build strength. The Turtle is about 3,000 lbs lighter than my truck.

20x11 Hutchinson 3 part bolt together. Rated at 6779 at 95psi. But still doesn’t match factory GVW of 7,350. A really great option, strong wheel, strong tires, outsets that you can choose. Insanely expensive wheel. Can be installed without a truck lift (important to me) - just need bigger wheel well (Gary Wescott did this). One benefit is tires can be field repaired because you can unbolt the wheel to disassemble it, replace tire, then replace an ‘O’-ring between that seals the 2 part wheel. O-ring is $17.20 a each. Michelin XZL or Conti MPT 81 or Goodyear G177 are all options for OFF ROAD tires, which can be air down and you can use a beadlock. Hutchinson Internal Rubber Composite Beadlock $200 each. However, I do not want off-road tires mostly because they are only good for 40,000 miles or so. If I go with 20x11 I’m hoping to acquire Continental HDC 12x20, see tire discussion below.

Accuride bolt together aluminum wheels I verified by email that they no longer make them.

Other manufacturers: Stockton Wheel of California I’ve read lots of blog reports of cracked wheels. Les Schwabb (western USA tire and wheel company) has custom wheels built in Pasco, WA these are agricultural wheels and not DOT approved, I’ve not read any user reviews, they were more expensive than Rickson and if you ask for DOT approved wheel they order it from Rickson. http://advancewheel.com/ Agricultural and Industrial wheels.

My truck tire ‘monolog’ The 4 primary types of commercial truck tires. Long range – Bus, highway semi-truck, RV. Extremely long life. Continental=’L’, Michelin=’U’ or ‘A’. Requires a machine to remove/install tire. Regional – Delivery, Semi-truck, heavy and medium duty truck. Rough roads, gravel, often mud + snow rated. Not deep lugged. Very long life Continental=’R’, Michelin=’E’. Requires a machine to remove/install tire. On/Off road – Designed for construction, logging, mines, etc. Continental=’C’, Michelin=’Y’ Long Life. Designed to be field repaired (tire can be removed/installed with hand tools) Off Road – Though legal on roads they are designed as off road first. Continental=’O’ ‘MPT (MultiPurposeTire)’, Michelin=’L’. Short Life, these are soft tires that have the BIG advantage of allowing air down. Tire can be removed/installed with hand tools. There are subcategories: Steer: (all position) Continental=’S’, Michelin=’Z’. Drive: Continental=’D’, Michelin=’D’ (drive are often Mud+Snow rated), also there are Trailer and Special Winter tires.

Design issues for me:

Maximum fully loaded and fueled truck will weigh: Front 7200 (exceeds factory GVW of 7000) Rear 12,200 (below Factory rear GVW of 14,700). Overall rated GVW=19,500. I prefer minimum modification of front wheel well and no lift other than the factory 2” lift. 19.5”, and low profile 22.5” would work great in the front. 20x11 require significant front wheel well modification. Though preferred, there is no way to have the rear wheels track directly behind the front because I have a 7’ wide bed and I don’t want any more than a 2 or 3 inches of tire sticking out past the camper. 19.5” 35” tall tires require wider wheels and slightly less offset in the front to achieve clearance for turning. Low profile 22.5” 37” tall may require a bit less offset, which you’ll get with 22.5x9.00. 20x11 41” tall and a bit wider, require that the wheel be pushed wider (less offset) in order to steer. Prefer no taller equivalent axle ratio than 4.00

See tire chart: Revs/mile Equivalent Axle ratio 647 4.88 Stock what I have 587 4.43 574 4.33 569 4.29 545 4.11 4.10 is the Highest gear ratio you can order a 550. Allows for 18,500 lbs of towing, which I won't be doing. 512 3.86 500 3.77 493 3.72 488 3.68 466 3.51

My Rear Width issues: 8’=96” 7’=84” Truck bed is 84” and I don’t want tires sticking out more than 2 or 3 inches. Camper is 85” Stock dually 94 Hutchinson 20x11 recommended rear 95.25 Hutchinson 20x11 Front Wheel mounted bell in, same orientation as front wheel 83.75 Hutchinson 20x11 Front Wheel mounted bell ‘out’, like an outside dually (not sure if this is permitted) 89.75 Hutchinson 19.5x8.25 w/ 4.3 offset ‘bell’ out 95.3 Hutchinson 19.5x8.25 w/ 4.3 offset ‘bell’ in like an inside dually 76.39

Here are my top contenders for my application (all are regroovable) Hutchinson 20x11 with Continental HDC or HDC1 12R20. Should be more stable on highway than off-road tires or 285 70R19.5 An on/off road construction tire with high mileage. Equivalent Axle ratio: about 3.7 Eliminated, these are Rickson: Firematic 19.5x9.75 with Continental HDR 305/70R19.5. Firematic says the IROK tire they offer is great off road but expect 20,000 miles. still researching this option but looks good. Equivalent Axle ratio: about 4.3 Hutchinson 20x11 with Continental MPT 12.5R20 or Michelin XZL or Goodyear G177. From what I’ve read in several blogs these last 35,000 to 45,000 miles, are regroovable, but no one regrooves them. A stand by option, known to work, and available globally. Equivalent Axle ratio: about 3.8 Can be aired down Hutchinson 19.5x8.25 Continental HDR 305/70R19.5 Depending on which way I mount them either too wide or too narrow for 7’ bed. Equivalent Axle ratio: 4.30 Stock wheels, Dually, But with Continental HDR 225 70R 19.5. Drive M+S rated tires Sticks out 5” on each side of 7’ bed. Equivalent Axle ratio: 4.88

A couple really big unknowns: The Continental HDC 12 R 20 is designed for 8.25 or 9” rim but the Hutchinson rim is 11” wide, will this combination work? Is this tire designed for drop center wheels?

Anything other than stock makes the rig too tall to fit in a shipping container – I didn’t expect this. SO, I plan to build 1” thick, and tall enough to provide axle clearance, solid, all aluminum, no tire, bolt-on wheel used exclusively to load the truck in a shipping container. OK, I agree that sounds weird. But any shipping requires preparation, and though odd it should work. Comments, ideas, questions?

 

[heimbig]

availability	For F-550 (2013)	tire 'style'	Approximate cost each	Weight (LBS)	tire diameter	driving radius	width	req'd rim width	max load / tire	Revs. per Mile	Air Down?	max speed	comments
	19.5 Wheels - stock front 225 70R 19.5 " 2 aluminum Conti HSR	long range regional,'S'=Steer	included with truck (-$300)	each alum wheel&tire= 97	32		8.7	6	3970	647	no		long tire life
	stock rear: dual 2 aluminum, 2 steel Conti HSR	long range regional,'S'=Steer	included with truck (-$300)	steel wheel&tire=117. 2 rear wheels weigh: 214 lbs	32		8.7	6	3750	647	no		Dually problematic for 4x4 trails long tire life
	Rickson front 285/70R19.5 Michelin XZE2+	long range regional not off road	$1122 (includes tax)	153 tire 93.9	35.2	16.2	11.1	7.5	(Wheel 4000) Tire:6395	592	no		This wheel failed, custom offset long tire life
	Rickson rear 285/70R19.5 Michelin XDE2+	long range regional, mud snow, not off road	$1196 (includes tax)	173 tire 95.9	35.4	16.3	10.8	7.5	6395	587	no		This tire failed, custom offset long tire life
	Hutchinson 19.5x8.25 w/ 4.33 Offset WA-0584 2		less than 20x11	62					6830				should be less $ than Hutchinson 20x11
usa?	HSR/HDR Conti 305/70R19.5			95	36.3	16.7	11.8	8.25	6940	570	no	81
	Hutchinson 20x11 w/ mounted Conti MPT81 front & rear 335/80R20 (12.5 R 20) +ship	off road. "Multi Purpose Tire"	$ 2,351 ea + shipping	66 (tire=120)	42.63/40.6		12.4	10/11	6779		yes		Expensive. HOWEVER side wall are much more flexible and field removal should be easier than standard truck tire. SHORT tire life.
	Hutchinson 20" Michelin XZL front & rear	'L' tires are off road.	+$100 ea	66 (tire ~170) total=236				11			yes		ditto
	Hutchinson 20x11 w/ adaptor $each for 5 + ship		$ 1,135	66
	Hutchinson 20x11 bead lock		$ 200
global	HDC 12 R 20	on/off road - "for construction"			44/41?	20.2	12.3	8.25 or 9	8267		partial
	22.5 x 9 custom Les Schwab with X MultiWay XD 295/60	Regional tire and what I ended up buying, is on my truck	$1480/mounted tire & custom wheel including tax & shipping	front 237 lbs rear a bit less	36.5	16.9	over all =11.4 tread=10.5	9 / 9.75	7390	569	partial	68
	Alcoa 22.5 x 9" w/ 3.12 inset		300
usa	X MultiWay XD 295/60r22.5x9.00	regional drive		115	36.5	16.9	11.4	9	7390	569	partial
usa	HDL2+ Eco Plus 295/60r22.5	long haul drive		tire=116	37	17.1	11.5	9	7390	574		75
usa	HDR2 Eco Plus 295/75r22.5 (HDR2 same)	long haul drive		129	40.7	19	11.5	8.25	6940	509
usa?	HDR 305/70R22.5 x 9.00	'D' = Drive			40	17.6	10.8	9	7390	528			(data from hsu1)
global	HDR+ 295/60r22.5x9.00	'R' = Regional			36.5			9	7385
global	HDR 315/60r22.5x9.00				37.4			9	7826
global	HDR 305/70r22.5x9.00				39.4			9	7826
usa	HDC1 12 R 22.5 x 9.00	on/off road - 'C'=Construction	600		42.7	19.8	12.5	9	7826	488	partial	68	Conti says the HDC1 is designed for field repair (machine not required)
usa	11R22.5 Michelin X Works XDY	Y' tires on/off road / construction	700	tire=135.4	41.9	19.7	11.3	7.5, 8.25	6610	493
global	HDC1 295/80 R 22.5 w/ conti	on/off road - "for construction"	700		41.9	19.2	11.9		7826	505*	partial	68	505* RPM I computed from rolling circumference. Conti says the HDC1 is designed for field repair (machine not required)
usa	HSR1	regional steer
usa	HDR+ 295/60r22.5x9.00	regional drive			36.45		11.5	9	7385
usa	HDL2+ Eco Plus	long haul						8.25
usa	HDR+ 310/60r22.5x9.00	regional drive			37.4		12	9	7826
usa	XZA2® Energy 295/60R22.5	long haul steer		109	36.1	16.7	11.4	9	7390	575
	Bridgestone M775
	Bridgestone L320

 

[Capt Eddie]

Sir: May I say that I am on my second expedition rig that is very similar to yours. I have had dually on both rigs as well as all of my work trucks have dually also. I would stick with what works. Duallys. I have never in all my years with duallys had a rock or stick stuck between the tires. More times then I can count, I have been able to limb home or to a better spot after having a flat on one of the rear tires. All of my truck are over 15K in weight. And the single rear gets me home. I also consider all of the highway miles that I put on the truck just for the few hundred miles of off roading. That is when I tow the Jeep. The super singles just do not make a lot of sense for the everyday explorer. But you may not be the everyday explorer type. Will all the money spent on the super singles really be worth it. Think of it this way. With the money saved, you could go more places and not have to worry about where the money is coming from or going to. It is in your pocket. Rob built my first camper. So I am like one of the family. All the respect in what you have done. Eddie

 

[heimbig]

Dually remains an option, if I was staying in the USA I would have built 8' wide and dually would make more sense.

 

[k9lestat]

i was just wondering when yu and the other were discussing solar, if youre going to living in it long term i was wondering about supplementing your solar with a wind turbine. it could provide charge at night or in low lite. wind blows in all weather and if you driving low speeds it could work then too. just an idea. i dont know if it would work for you or not.

 

[heimbig]

k9lestat: I'm not sure about using wind while driving, but I'd think using wind while driving probably will consume a lot more power than just using the trucks alternator. UNLESS you have a significant side wind then apparent wind (to use a little sailing lingo) would be faster than your drive speed and you might get a benefit. From my sailing time, wind power can be very noisy, so I would want to listen to a generator before I bought one. I really don't need solar or wind at all, the batteries last for days as long as I don't use microwave or A/C and a generator (if you already own one) is cheaper than solar. I did cave-in and buy 2 uni-solar roll out panels 67 watt each. They are not very efficient but they stick flat to the roof. With a little sun each day I'll be able to stay out indefinitely, and not disturb any neighbors (I frequently won't have any)

 

[k9lestat]

ok just popped in my head thought id spit it out there..lol

 

[mog]

Wheels and tires for a loaded (2005 and later) Ford F550 (same wheels for 2008-up Dodge 4500/5500 and Sterling Bullet)

So was there a reason the Firematic rims, did not make it to your 'consider list' ?

 

[heimbig]

mog: I thought the Firematic was only available to fire departments. That may not be the case. I added them to the original post and will update there as I learn more. They sure look like R*cks*ns. EDIT: Email from David Horton confirms, yes, they are Rickson wheels.

 

[mog]

mog: I thought the Firematic was only available to fire departments. That may not be the case. I added them to the original post and will update there as I learn more. They sure look like R*cks*ns.

When I checked (phone call), they sell to the 'general public' (very good customer service, they were willing to have them made at no additional charge with a Rockwell 6-lug pattern for my Fuso).
I think fire departments/SAR/LEO might get an additional 10-15% off
I would recommend a phone call (888-434-7362) over email.
-
The standard Backspacing is:
Backspacing for the front wheels are 9.5”
Backspacing for the rear wheels are 3.5”
I think the rim width is 10 inches.
I'm sure that they are running difference backspacing for the tracks to line up on the 2005 and newer Ford F450/550 trucks they modify.
That does not lend itself for a single spare to work front and rear, but I would guess that supplying 'public safety vehicles', they have dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts.
Those Irok Tires look like great tires and fall in load wise between your 'need' at 12,200 (Irok x 2 =12,800) but below the factory rear GVW of 14,700.
-
Firematic Custom Super Swamper Irok 19.5" On/Off Road 16 Ply Tire Irok Link
•Tire Size: 36X13.50-19.5
•Overall Diameter: 36.00"
•Cross Section: 13.50" [on a 9.75" Rim]
•Weight: 92 pounds
•Ply Rating: 16
•Load Range: H
•Max Load: 6400 pounds
•Max Pressure: 110 PSI
•Recommended Rim: 9.75-11.25"
•Sidewall: 8 ply nylon
•Tread: 10 ply nylon

 

[Darwin]

@ $625 a tire, they are not cheap.

 

[mog]

@ $625 a tire, they are not cheap.

Most of the tires he has listed are $500,$600,$700 or more (some way more).

Anything other than stock makes the rig too tall to fit in a shipping container – I didn’t expect this. SO, I plan to build 1” thick, and tall enough to provide axle clearance, solid, all aluminum, no tire, bolt-on wheel used exclusively to load the truck in a shipping container. OK, I agree that sounds weird. But any shipping requires preparation, and though odd it should work. Comments, ideas, questions

You might want to check out this posting over in the Fuso section:
Wheels for container height
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whatcharterboat (ATW) comment:

Can I add something here.....the only vehicle I have seen discs fitted to for containerisation had portal axles.......when you load a vehicle into the container, you have to lash the back down then head back to the front of the truck to tie that down then shut the container door. Usually that means sliding under the diffs. I'm not that overweight but try to crawl under a FUSO diff fitted with anything smaller than a standard 16" wheel and tyre (albiet aired down) fitted and it won't happen.

A word of warning.....wear a leather jacket cause the splinters on the floor can be bad!!!

Photos:
container wheel photos in this post

 

[heimbig]

containers, width, disk wheels for loading

You might want to check out this posting over in the Fuso section:
Wheels for container height
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whatcharterboat (ATW) comment:
Photos:
container wheel photos in this post

-
Wow, someone else did the disk wheel thing for shipping. Nothing new under the sun. As far as getting the driver out of a container they are 94" wide inside truck is 84" wide hum.. 10" so really 8" I'll for sure have to do a test run. I might be able to crawl over the top in a high cube.

 

[mog]

-
Wow, someone else did the disk wheel thing for shipping. Nothing new under the sun. As far as getting the driver out of a container they are 94" wide inside truck is 84" wide hum.. 10" so really 8" I'll for sure have to do a test run. I might be able to crawl over the top in a high cube.

Ummm, I'm guessing your truck would be centered in the container, so 94-84=10, 10/2= 5 inches (or less) on the sides.