Grumman the Backcountry Box Van____1997 Ford E450 7.3l Power Stroke diesel

[Petrolburner]

Awesome, not as tall as it looks in the pics.

Whats the plan for the layout? Rear bed over the garage or front bed over the attic? The width and height that offers will be great to work with.

The aluminum sheet and spar construction sure is nice. Whats the plans for insulation and sound deadening?

Thanks Ross

I had always planned on doing the bed in the cab over, but I need to do some measurements and use a bunch of blue painters tape to get a visual on the layout. It might work better to use that area for storage and build the living space farther forward to fit everything in. Then, have a read bed that lowers down from the ceiling. I'd still be able to get into bed without removing the bikes, that's a requirement.

For insulation I'm leaning towards having a contractor spray polyiso foam inside the whole thing. Stiffen the box up some, create a vapor barrier, and also give me a really good R value per inch of thickness. I want to be able to be a snow bum in ski hill parking lots. I'll probably copy Java's F450 https://www.nwadventuretruck.com/furring-in-the-walls-and-insulation/

 

[Petrolburner]

A couple weeks ago I had a mountain biking trip planned with my brother. We were going to meet up near Anthony Lakes Ski Area and camp in the vans. The night before, as I was packing my stuff into Gertrude, she sprung a pretty good coolant leak out of the heater core. I couldn't find an easy fix like a loose hose clamp or anything, so I opted to take Grumman instead. No big deal, I wanted to put some miles on him anyway. I had been driving him back and forth to work and hadn't had any issues at all. Well I guess that's not entirely true. There's a rattle in the wall, like a loose wire mount or something in the pass through that was cut in and then covered up. Other than that, no problem taking the big box van on the trip. This also helps me get a sense on whether or not I really want to take on this project or just keep Gertrude.

So I bailed out on getting a box van several years ago when I bought Gertrude because I didn't want to build a motorhome. A box van has to be insured and registered as a commercial vehicle or converted to a motorhome and registered and insured that way. Depending on your state, this can be easy, hard, or somewhere in between. I went in to my local DMV, told them what I was doing and she asked how long it would take to convert. I said 6 months to 2 years. So, she asked if I just wanted to convert the title right now while I was doing the transfer. Yes. Yes I would like that. Now, instead of $400 a year in commercial truck registration, I'm paying $237 for two years. Insurance was only $150 for the year. Not bad at all. :wings:

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

I slapped my new plates on and hit the road. I met up with my brother and we drove up the mountain together. We just barely fit these two big girls in the same spot together. Check out the all natural front tire levelers.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Got in an evening ride.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Cooked some dinner.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Hung out with a guy that worked at the ski hill and got some intel on the trails. It got pretty chilly but there were still severe fire bans in effect. I lit the Portable Buddy Heater in the box van and we pulled our camp chairs inside and sat around it like it was our fire. Box van is cool.

The view the next morning

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Some of the intel that we got was that we could ride to the top of the ski hill and try out their downhill bike run that wasn't quite finished. Cool.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Left camp and went to another trail head.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

On the drive home I pulled off on a dirt road to pee and had a great shot to illustrate why I don't like pulling trailers. Super easy to turn around on just a wide spot in the road. Yes this spot is actually really wide, but I can make a 3, 5, or even 9 point turn on a much narrower road if need be. Can't do that with a trailer.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

On the way home I hit 500 miles on the tank, and look how much fuel is still remaining! I love this giant fuel tank. It will be even better once I get the gearing and tuning sorted.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

The lack of cruise control sucks. Manual windows and doors not such a big deal so far. All in all a good first camping trip.

 

[Oldcarnut]

I'm jealous of your 500 miles and just under a quarter tank. I've gotten 550 pushing it but I weigh 9960 pounds and cruise at 65-70 now with my tune. Still 4.10s and stock sized tires.

 

[Oldcarnut]

Don't think my 550 was with the tune or going 60+ mph though. Have not gotten better than 11mpg with the tune at 60+mph though.

 

[Jsweezy]

Awesome. Oh and that foam is super cool.

 

[RC413]

I had always planned on doing the bed in the cab over, but I need to do some measurements and use a bunch of blue painters tape to get a visual on the layout. It might work better to use that area for storage and build the living space farther forward to fit everything in. Then, have a read bed that lowers down from the ceiling. I'd still be able to get into bed without removing the bikes, that's a requirement.

For insulation I'm leaning towards having a contractor spray polyiso foam inside the whole thing. Stiffen the box up some, create a vapor barrier, and also give me a really good R value per inch of thickness. I want to be able to be a snow bum in ski hill parking lots. I'll probably copy Java's F450 https://www.nwadventuretruck.com/furring-in-the-walls-and-insulation/

Tough call on the bed location. It would be nice with a permanent bed over the cab but that is a great living space especially with a pass through to the cab or a side door in the front of the box. Still a TON more room than a standard van body.

I was looking into the "foam it green" kits. Seems kind of risky for a diy... I have not had any luck finding a spray foam guy that will look into the smaller vans and anyone with fire/mold resistant stuff.

Thanks Ross

 

[java]

Somehow I totally missed this Sub'ed

Tough call on the bed location. It would be nice with a permanent bed over the cab but that is a great living space especially with a pass through to the cab or a side door in the front of the box. Still a TON more room than a standard van body.

I was looking into the "foam it green" kits. Seems kind of risky for a diy... I have not had any luck finding a spray foam guy that will look into the smaller vans and anyone with fire/mold resistant stuff.

Thanks Ross

The foam it kits work sorta. I have used them in houses that need a small section of non vented roof area.

Tricks: Find an old cooler the bottles fit in. Fill it with hot *** water and drop them in, it sprays best when the bottles are 75 ish.
When a tip starts to get plugged toss it, they are hard to clean and you waste time.
Wear a suit, and head cover

You will never get the quoted board feet out of them, think 80% of that. I would have needed two (maybe even a little more) kits for my truck, and what I paid was not much more than two kits, and they ground it all down and cleaned up. The 2# foam has to be ground with a cup grinder..... Its too hard for the shredder things or the big knife blades. I was happy I was not doing that part!

 

[Petrolburner]

I was going to wait to sell my Motovan until the Grumman had a new floor, windows and paneling. However, I've really got way too many vehicles and projects going on. With Gertrude the Motovan sitting here, I'm just tempted to go off and play. I need her out of sight and off the fleet list. I didn't sell the Corvette, I bought a Honda Insight for a winter beater, my girlfriend's car needs an engine swap so I bought her a 1st gen CR-V to drive until I get that done. I'm paying registration and insurance on way too many vehicles. I've reached out to a couple people that asked for first dibs on Gertrude when I was ready to sell her.

 

[Petrolburner]

[video]https://youtu.be/VWB9YApwYMw[/video]

I think I just had an idea. So I want to cut a doorway into the side of the van to get in and out because the latches on the rear doors can be locked from the outside, and therefore a person could be locked in against their will. However, a man door cut into the wall takes away the opportunity to use the wall space for cabinets and counter space. What if I just modified the door latches on the rear doors to be lockable and operable from inside and outside? Perhaps leave the left side door alone, but remove the heavy latches on the right side door and install a more traditional doorknob? What do you think?

 

[UHAULER]

Here is a nice looking motovan

 

[Petrolburner]

Here is a nice looking motovan

Yeah I like that one. I watched it awhile back so I didn't rewatch the whole thing. But, there aren't a lot of box van builds detailed on youtube yet, so I should probably watch a few more so I can get some ideas.

 

[Petrolburner]

Well, I was working in my garage last week on my Honda Insight. I recently insulated and paneled the inside with this white hardboard. It works just like a white board with dry erase markers. I made the mistake of putting a few of my various machines and their to-do list up.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

This doesn't even have my Caponord, trials bike, Gas Gas, KLX, XR650R or Kathleen's DR200 on there. It's a bit overwhelming. I think that's when I came to the realization that I just needed to sell Gertrude and remove her from my plate. Without her in the fleet, I don't have any way to haul a dirtbike or go camping. I hate to be without that ability but I also need that pressure to get going on the Grumman.

Several people asked me to let them know when I was ready to sell Gertrude and give them a shot at it. One is a friend of mine and he and his girlfriend came to look at her Saturday morning. I explained all the good and bad things over the course of an hour or so. They took it for a drive and loved it of course. He asked, "So how soon are you ready to sell?" Well, I explained how I need to remove the floor, strip all the cross members and paint them, then install the new floor. Then I could have a useable van again, and the other steps wouldn't really take the van out of commission too badly. So, I'd like to get a new floor in within the next two weeks or at least be close to it. I started removing boards right after they left.

Over the rear wheels, the floor was coming apart on its own.

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr


I broke out quite a bit of the floor this way. Once I started moving towards the center, the wood wasn't deteriorated. It took a lot more pressure with the jack, and when the board gave way it got pretty violent. You can see in the above photo I spilled a brand new beer like an idiot.

The floor boards were installed with some large Torx head bolts. Those Torx heads have been filled with dirt and industrial powders and packed in over the last 20 years. I tried to blast the crud out of the Torx head with compressed air and picked at it a little with metal picks. Pretty clearly a waste of time. Even if I could get the head clean, the bolt was seized in place and would likely snap or blow the engagement of the Torx bit and I'd have to attack it with a grinder anyway.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

This is as far as I got the first night.

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

 

[Petrolburner]

The next night I continued with the the grinder in one hand and a fluorescent trouble light in the other. The goggles, dust mask, and fan helped, but the smell and smoke from the wood and metal burning away was pretty intense. I also see a lot of spark sized burn marks in my favorite hat this morning.

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Floor removal by Petrolburner, on Flickr

All the bolt heads have been removed where necessary. Over the rear wheels the wood is deteriorated enough that there shouldn't be much resistance. Now I just need to drive over to burn pile with my mangled jack and get the rest of the boards out. Then I'll burn through a bunch of cutoff wheels removing the bolts above and below the I-beam floor crossmembers. Then a bunch of flapper discs and paint removal wheels.

Untitled by Petrolburner, on Flickr

Oh yeah, that first night of floor jack induced violence had a casualty. The jack fell over under pressure and tweaked the frame. I'm working in gravel and I didn't always have that piece of plywood under the jack. I really need a concrete pad in front of my garage so I'm not working in gravel. Actually I really need a 40'x60' machine shed with 14' tall doors and a two post lift.

 

[java]

Good times! If you want to use those same screws again, they are "trailer decking screws" I got them locally easily, and they actually work damn well.

 

[Petrolburner]

Good times! If you want to use those same screws again, they are "trailer decking screws" I got them locally easily, and they actually work damn well.

Might be a good time to discuss my flooring plan. I'm thinking that I'll put down some 1/2" treated plywood, and then a layer of vinyl flooring in a wood or stone pattern. I had thought about doing something different in the garage portion, but the garage portion is 8' long, that doesn't leave much floor space up front, especially after I build out the bed up front. I'll only have a couple feet of standing room up front with the bikes inside. With the bikes out of the garage, I want it to feel spacious and have some continuity. I'm going to need to do something to the bottom side of the floor near the rear wheels. I don't want it to be any lower than necessary. I don't want to build wheel well cutouts, and I don't want to lift the van any more than necessary to fit the bigger tires. I'm thinking I should just paint the underside of the floor and the cross members near the rear wheels in bedliner. That will fend off the dirt and gravel and keep out the water.

I need to play around with a tape measure and look at how high the rear deck height is going to be after adding 32" tires and the amount of spring lift to fit them. The ramp height and angle is already pretty steep. I need to be able to push my XR650R up the ramp by myself. Floor cutouts for the rear wheels might be worth the effort. I wonder if I can find some pre made metal humps.