Help a brother out - Post up some pics and details of your RTT lift systems

[VanIsle_Greg]

All,
I have come to the conclusion that I am not a fan of the RTT mounted directly to my lid. Don't get me wrong, it works well and it is easy to get in and out of (I have yet to use the ladder, I use my fender) I just need some more space. I have a brand new never opened annex sitting in a bag in my garage, and I would really like to use it for a changing room/escape from the bugs room.

So, I am looking at different designs for a custom rack that can be lifted up to 36" above the current lid height. I am likely going to make the rack in its low position 18" above the lid so I can open it a little when on the road to access snacks, fill the water tank, grab a chair etc without lifting the rack. Add to that around 18" of lift, you get 3' above the current base.

I have been mulling this over and have had a few tea and design sessions with Mike (Wavebreaker) looking at options and pros and cons of different designs. So far we have...

1. Linear Actuators
- Pros = Easy to get, cost is reasonable, ************** kool in a nerdy way, maintenance free (mostly)
- Cons = Somewhat complex, slow, noisy

2. Custom made air lift
- Pros = Air available from tank/compressor on trailer, pretty awesome tech, simple-ish, ************** kool in a totally nerdy way
- Cons = Complex, never been done that I have seen yet...yet, seals might be tricky, maintenance, might be hard to repair in the field

3. Gas lift struts
- Pros = Cheap, readily available, local Canadian company will custom build to my specs (and tweak until I am happy)
- Cons = Difficult to get perfect lift to weight, if it is up it might be hard to get down, repair by replacement and not in the field

4. Cables (ala Tent Trailer Lift System)
- Pros = Cheap, available, local parts, easy to repair, simple tools
- Cons = OMG can you imagine the cable system to make this work??

Anyhow, I know that there are a number of you trailer nerds in here who have lift systems. If you wouldn't mind sharing your tips/tricks/design specs/suppliers and links I would REALLY appreciate it! I have found some sellers on EBay for what look like some pretty slick Linear Actuators. $122.00 for 2 that lift 200# and have an 18" ram. Sounds like a winner to me doesn't it? Well Mike is pushing hard for the custom air lift system. I think the easiest is the gas struts, if you get the lift pressure correct, and get the tubes perfectly parallel and true you could almost make it neutrally buoyant. Only slight upwards or downwards pressure would lift or lower the whole kit.

Help a brother out and give me some ideas (or better yet talk me out of some of this stuff)!!

:coffeedrink:

 

[Crush Jeep]

Greg this is what we did, it serves two purposes it gives you room on the roof to store things and gives you the space you need for the changing room. It's easy to go up and down and we use a pin to lock it into place. We use gas struts, they are cheep and easy to replace. There are plenty of sizes available depending on the weight of your tent, we went from a smaller tent to a larger tent and just switched out the struts from 25 to 50 with no issues. Hope this helps you out. There are a lot of other pictures in my thread if you want to check it out (link at the bottom).

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Greg this is what we did, it serves two purposes it gives you room on the roof to store things and gives you the space you need for the changing room. It's easy to go up and down and we use a pin to lock it into place. We use gas struts, they are cheep and easy to replace. There are plenty of sizes available depending on the weight of your tent, we went from a smaller tent to a larger tent and just switched out the struts from 25 to 50 with no issues. Hope this helps you out. There are a lot of other pictures in my thread if you want to check it out (link at the bottom).

Thanks Wayne.

I have been following your build thread(s) since day 1, and love the work. So if I see this and read this correctly, you simply used 4 gas struts and the total lifting weight of all 4 is equal to the weight of the rack and tent?

e.g. Tent (x) = 140#, Rack = 80#, total weight (x+y) = 220#.

Gas struts required = 1 for each corner (4 x 55#) = 220#?

I used those numbers as my tent is about 140# and the rack will probably be 60-80#.

Make sense?

How hard or easy is it to raise and lower your tent and platform? If you get the numbers correct (neutral buoyancy) I dont imagine it is much effort either way? Thanks for the pics and the details! Exactly what I think is the easiest path and the way I thought it would work.
Greg

 

[grnhornetcustoms]

Greg this is a very timely discussion since just yesterday I unloaded my annex from my trailer and stored it away. I will be watching for that perfect spark of inspiration to raise my RTT and use the annex.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Greg this is a very timely discussion since just yesterday I unloaded my annex from my trailer and stored it away. I will be watching for that perfect spark of inspiration to raise my RTT and use the annex.

Glad I could be of assistance. heh

I have been thinking of this since before I even mounted my RTT to the lid. I did however think that 8 bolts was a lot simpler than an entire rack/lift system at the time. Now, after a bunch of trips I see the benefits of having it up higher and not attached to the lid.

Like this past trip when my dad went to be early, and I couldn't get to my snacks in the tub. At least I had my cigar and my Bourbon out. Crisis averted.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

I'm running linear actuators; one on each corner. I wouldn't call it complex at all, it's as simple or as complex as you want it to be. Make a mounting bracket with a top at the top and the bottom, and it's done. If your not good with electrical, it could be confusing or intimidating because you'll need to reverse the polarity on each actuator to switch between raising and lowering them, but it's relatively easy. I've only got 12" of lift because that's as high as I can get with actuators that fit in the space I have...max 17" for the actuator itself to fit, and a 17" actuator only has 12" of lift, but that's specific to my setup, but once everything is done, it'll be just right and just enough for the height I need, just. They're also easilly available a Princess Auto so I don't have to order them online, and they come on sale for C$50 each, while run for C$75 at their regular price. They're good for 280lbs lifting and 330lbs static, each. While most put the actuators beside the tubing, I wanted a more compact setup and went with larger 2.5" outer and 2.0" inner tubing, and put the actuators inside.

Plenty of pics @ https://www.facebook.com/NissanFrontrailer

Any Q's, don't be afraid to PM me or even add me on FB

I also added some pins for some extra security.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Thanks man, lots of details.

I am good with electrical, and I know that there are easy ways to wire up a switch to handle the reverse polarity bit. I meant the Linear Actuators are more complex than say a set of gas rams which require no wiring or electrical only engineering. I follow Princess Auto all the time and I never see those go on sale...I will have to keep my eyes open. Regular price is well...steep.

I have been following your build for a long time, love that trailer setup. One of my faves actually.

Thanks for the details and for all the pics! Hopefully this thread will not only answer my questions but others as well.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Oh and where did you find those pins? That is a handy design.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

I am good with electrical, and I know that there are easy ways to wire up a switch to handle the reverse polarity bit. I meant the Linear Actuators are more complex than say a set of gas rams which require no wiring or electrical only engineering. I follow Princess Auto all the time and I never see those go on sale...I will have to keep my eyes open. Regular price is well...steep.

I have been following your build for a long time, love that trailer setup. One of my faves actually.

Thanks for the details and for all the pics! Hopefully this thread will not only answer my questions but others as well.

They do once in a while. I got them from PA for convenience. I replaced one last week (lower mount broke, probably from the stressed/bending bolt), and conveniently being in Kingston, home of PA, I just had to drive to go get a new one. They do ship, I had to since I couldn't find 4 in one place, and they were on sale, so I still saved, but paying for shipping, not as much of course.

I cheated and used a relay pack for an Arduino, so I just have them all connected to relays, which means I just have push buttons to ground to trigger the up or down functions, or even control each actuator individually, and also means I can easily add more cover lift controls easily (say in the front and back of the trailer), and if and when I can get it running, controlling it using my Smartphone or my CarPC over Wifi when I get an Arduino installed in the trailer....when I figure it out; I'm still learning that, but it's been put on hold for the course I'm on.

Wow, thanks!

Oh and where did you find those pins? That is a handy design.

Indeed, it actually took me a few weeks of looking at different pin designs; there's so many! I wanted something low profile but spring loaded-in. I came across this one, apparently designed for tow trucks, and liked that it was greasable. Cheapest I found was $25US (each) at piercesales http://www.piercesales.com/1-2-twist-lock-plunger-latch/ . Our dollar was decent at the time, not like it is now :S Talk to them about them helping you out on the value for shipping for customs. I did have to drill a hole on the ones that were installed on the opposite side to swap the handle sides since they were on the wrong side for that side of the vehicle.

 

[grnhornetcustoms]

For my use I built my lid out of 1/8" flat bar steel sides and 16 gauge steel skin . It was more of a prototype with the idea I would build one like it out of aluminum. It is heavy, hinged in front, not very effective to open it with the RTT unless I added gas struts.

Having a tailgate opening moved any lid upgrades way down the list. I use Action Packers and the configuration is very easy to access even with the boxes in the front. I usually just pull the boxes and stack them for a convenient table top. My lid, Though heavy, it is more then up to the task of bolting on a rack for mounting the RTT up higher.

I have seen some racks that are folded and use an actuator or a screw jack to raise the RTT. These are I guess somewhat complicated to fabricate, somewhat heavy but help keep the center of gravity low. I also like the simplicity of the rack system on Manley trailers but cringe at the thought of my RTT rubbing trees as I head out onto a trail to camp or making the handling of the trailer noticeably different as in tippy or prone to a flop onto its side.

Maybe I should go with a simple rack and try to just anticipate the conditions and alternate between a rack with the annex and the RTT mounted to the lid.

 

[dstock]

I went with option 3 - gas struts, they aren't perfect but work well enough. I've got 18 inches of lift on my rack so we can use our annex but can also leave the rack at rest when not using the annex for quick deployment.
I've contemplated adding actuators for greater ease but sticking with the keep it simple design at the moment. My build is in my sig.

 

[Crush Jeep]

Thanks Wayne.

I have been following your build thread(s) since day 1, and love the work. So if I see this and read this correctly, you simply used 4 gas struts and the total lifting weight of all 4 is equal to the weight of the rack and tent?

e.g. Tent (x) = 140#, Rack = 80#, total weight (x+y) = 220#.

Gas struts required = 1 for each corner (4 x 55#) = 220#?

I used those numbers as my tent is about 140# and the rack will probably be 60-80#.

Make sense?

How hard or easy is it to raise and lower your tent and platform? If you get the numbers correct (neutral buoyancy) I dont imagine it is much effort either way? Thanks for the pics and the details! Exactly what I think is the easiest path and the way I thought it would work.
Greg

If you have neutral buoyancy or just under it, it will take little to no effort to raise it. Even if you are not even close it's a helping hand when raising the tent up. It's simple, cheap, easy and there is little to go wrong with it. I've seen some electric and air lifts, they work great and look really cool but if they fail you might have a little issue. If one of the gas struts fail it just takes a little muscle to move it where it needs to be until you can replace it. I'm into the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid).

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

I cheated and used a relay pack for an Arduino, so I just have them all connected to relays, which means I just have push buttons to ground to trigger the up or down functions, or even control each actuator individually, and also means I can easily add more cover lift controls easily (say in the front and back of the trailer), and if and when I can get it running, controlling it using my Smartphone or my CarPC over Wifi when I get an Arduino installed in the trailer....when I figure it out; I'm still learning that, but it's been put on hold for the course I'm on.

Wow, thanks!

Indeed, it actually took me a few weeks of looking at different pin designs; there's so many! I wanted something low profile but spring loaded-in. I came across this one, apparently designed for tow trucks, and liked that it was greasable. Cheapest I found was $25US (each) at piercesales http://www.piercesales.com/1-2-twist-lock-plunger-latch/ . Our dollar was decent at the time, not like it is now :S Talk to them about them helping you out on the value for shipping for customs. I did have to drill a hole on the ones that were installed on the opposite side to swap the handle sides since they were on the wrong side for that side of the vehicle.

Yeah, with our dollar at $.71 USD right now, cross border shopping is a bit of an issue isn't it. Thanks for the link, I like those a lot. I have been looking at the Arduino's, pretty sweet setup. There is a guy locally selling them, and the Rasberry Pi as well. He also sells every option , mod and add on for both as I recall.

For my use I built my lid out of 1/8" flat bar steel sides and 16 gauge steel skin . It was more of a prototype with the idea I would build one like it out of aluminum. It is heavy, hinged in front, not very effective to open it with the RTT unless I added gas struts.

Having a tailgate opening moved any lid upgrades way down the list. I use Action Packers and the configuration is very easy to access even with the boxes in the front. I usually just pull the boxes and stack them for a convenient table top. My lid, Though heavy, it is more then up to the task of bolting on a rack for mounting the RTT up higher.

I have seen some racks that are folded and use an actuator or a screw jack to raise the RTT. These are I guess somewhat complicated to fabricate, somewhat heavy but help keep the center of gravity low. I also like the simplicity of the rack system on Manley trailers but cringe at the thought of my RTT rubbing trees as I head out onto a trail to camp or making the handling of the trailer noticeably different as in tippy or prone to a flop onto its side.

Maybe I should go with a simple rack and try to just anticipate the conditions and alternate between a rack with the annex and the RTT mounted to the lid.

Simple is a good thing. I like the idea of having my RTT up a lot higher than on the lid. The annex is really appealing as a change room and or a storage room at the very least. My last 4 day trip we really could have used the annex, we were packed in tight with a ton of others and there was not a lot of privacy. Great time (NWOR) but a change room would have been handy!

The gas struts on my lid are awesome. With the tent it only requires slight upward pressure to open the tub even with the tent closed. I thought about a tailgate, but couldn't bring myself to cut up the tub. Even with all the mods I have done I could put my trailer back to DEW stock condition in a few days, which was one of my goals.

I went with option 3 - gas struts, they aren't perfect but work well enough. I've got 18 inches of lift on my rack so we can use our annex but can also leave the rack at rest when not using the annex for quick deployment.
I've contemplated adding actuators for greater ease but sticking with the keep it simple design at the moment. My build is in my sig.

Will check out that build thread link! Thanks for the input.

If you have neutral buoyancy or just under it, it will take little to no effort to raise it. Even if you are not even close it's a helping hand when raising the tent up. It's simple, cheap, easy and there is little to go wrong with it. I've seen some electric and air lifts, they work great and look really cool but if they fail you might have a little issue. If one of the gas struts fail it just takes a little muscle to move it where it needs to be until you can replace it. I'm into the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid).

This is basically the same thoughts I was having on this subject. Simple, parts readily available, even a space would be cheap enough to keep on hand. Also, it is was only minimal effort to open it up, it beats the heck out of a lot of other systems. Still like the Linear Actuators... for the easy of use and the nerd factor. I cannot lie, they are pretty slick.

Thanks all!! Design coming soon.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Oh and BTW. I used these guys for the struts for my lid and the mounting hardware. They have everything in stock and are awesome to work with.

http://www.lstechnologies.ca/

They have a great guarantee and will work with you to fine tune your struts in case you need to tweak the pressures. They will also make custom struts for you, the ends you need, the pressure you need etc. Great service and nice to talk to on the phone too.

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

If you have neutral buoyancy or just under it, it will take little to no effort to raise it. Even if you are not even close it's a helping hand when raising the tent up. It's simple, cheap, easy and there is little to go wrong with it. I've seen some electric and air lifts, they work great and look really cool but if they fail you might have a little issue. If one of the gas struts fail it just takes a little muscle to move it where it needs to be until you can replace it. I'm into the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid).

It depends on how it's setup. I had one fail, the lower mounting point broke

Having 4, so down to 3, I was still able to raise and lower the top. I even camped with it, and with the locking pin, that corner was locked up despite there was no actuator there to do that job.

Now the way it broke it wouldn't of jammed the top since the actuator was still expanding and retracting, but say an actuator jammed completely. In the down position, I can unbolt the lower bolt, and the cover will raise up, the actuator will just slide up in the gap that I deliberately left for that (widened it just a tad to let the motor slide, as opposed to the hole I cut to clear the shaft to be able to install and remove it from the tubing). If it was stuck while it was up, the bolts are accessible on top and bottom to remove it, but in all honestly, I don't have a plan for that scenario; I'd have to physically cut the actuator to clear it to remove it since it can only be installed in the retracted position, but should be able to force it down, I can't see I completely jamming up, more have stripped gears and no longer have the strength. If there's an electrical failure, I could easily jumper 12v directly from the battery, trailer or external and bypass the relays. In a pinch I could cut the wires that run to the actuators to run power directly in need be.