Help Scotty decide on an Expedition Moto...

[Scott Brady]

Well, my good bud Brian (goodtimes) took a ride up to Prescott to help sway my opinion. It was a huge help, as it gave me a sense for the size of the bike and overall performance.

What a great machine, easy to ride and very refined. Nothing like the dirt bikes I am used to. It is also a WIDE bike, though it didnt feel top heavy as I expected and was actually very comfortable to manuever. Great torque off-idle and a very linear power band with a pleasant punch at around 5,500 rpm. Excelent brakes too with good stopping power and fine modulation. BMW did a good job of smoothing the engine too and keeping the typical "dirt bike noise" away (loud exhaust, chain noise, tires, trans., etc.).

All of this said, it is not the bike for riding on technical dirt trails like I need for the Baja pre-running. I knew that, but riding the GS today just proved it in my stuborn mind. And not that I couldn't ride that bike the entire 500 course, it would just take too long and not be close enough to the trucks speeds.

So, after the Arctic Trip I need to find a 650 Dakar AND an XR400...

 

[goodtimes]

So, after the Arctic Trip I need to find a 650 Dakar AND an XR400...

:iagree:

Thanks for lunch amigo....now after the 500 mile ride, I am off to meet Mr. Taco down at O'Malleys for a beer.

 

[Doin_It]

Here's sort of an interactive page of what they did to there XL's to mod them for thier cross Aus. trip.

http://www.aussie2006.webset.co.nz/bikes.htm

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Hello all, First off let me say this is a great site.

Do not get the BMW 650! I have one in my garage that my employer provided me with. It performs very poorly off road. And by off road, I mean dirt roads. The suspension is way too soft, there is very little usable travel and it is falling apart after 300 miles of use. I can't imagine what it would perform like with weight on it.

Not on par with the rest of the BMW line up. I should know, I ride a BMW 1150 RT five days a week eight to ten hours a day.


I was very excited to get them in the beginning. However, They have left us wishing we had gotten something else.

I personally just picked up my 07 KTM 525exc. It performs flawlessly. The bike has everything you need in a factory package. It's street legal, electric starter, kick starter, kick stand and an excellant power band.

I'm sure I've offended someone here, but I was given the bike (BMW 650) for free. I'm unbaised and I've used it in the dirt alot. If I were getting a BMW dirtbike it would be the HP2.

Go ride a KTM 525 EXc and you'll be amazed. My .02

 

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the honest feedback.

Just last weekend I had the chance to see a 525 and it looked great. True long travel and HD front suspension. Not sure how it would do on the highway or with some gear mounted though.

 

[goodtimes]

Hello all, First off let me say this is a great site.

Do not get the BMW 650! I have one in my garage that my employer provided me with. It performs very poorly off road. And by off road, I mean dirt roads. The suspension is way too soft, there is very little usable travel and it is falling apart after 300 miles of use. I can't imagine what it would perform like with weight on it.

I think I'm the only one on the board (currently) that has a F650 (besides you....), and you didn't manage to offend me....too much. (buy me a beer and I'll forget about it :elkgrin

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and personally, I like to hear both the good and bad. That said, the F650 that *I* have, has performed very well for my intended use. Like many, many, other F650 riders, I see about 95% slab and 5% [non-technical] dirt roads, usually with little weight other than my fat ******** and a camelback. For daily commuting, an occasional run down the fire roads, and an occasional multi-week trip over mild to moderate terrain, most F650 owners are as happy as I am.

In fact, I think it is far from a complete POS as you imply. Honestly, if yours is falling apart after 300 miles, either it has seen alot more abuse than you lead on to, or it needs to go back to BMW because they screwed something up. Falling apart at 300 miles is definately not the norm for this bike. I have close to 4500 miles on mine (bought it ~3 months ago), with the only problem (other than rider stupidity) was the + batt cable needed to be tightened (which was a pain in the ******** to get to, BTW).

As I think I already mentioned very early in this thread, if someone wants to take it out and jump it off of logs, throw rooster tails every time they get after it, slide it around every corner and bounce them off of rocks, this is DEFINATELY not the bike for them. For the those of us who spend more time on the slab than the dirt, and even when we are on the dirt we are on fairly tame terrain, the F650 does very well.

Oh, the 69mpg isn't bad either.

Welcome to the site 24! :wavey:

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

OK...Falling apart may be a bit overkill, but I do expect the little plastic subfenders not to fall off while traveling down a dirt road. The front fell off (Cracked in half) of mine and the rear fell off of my co-workers. These bikes are not abused nor are they neglected. We get reamed if our service bikes are even dirty.

As I read the purpose of this thread, Scott said he wanted his bike to be able to prerun baja. As you stated, the 650 is a great urban style bike, not a dirtbike. It's great for going down multiple flights of stairs (And even then, you have to inch it over the first couple of steps so as not to bottom out), curbs and bike paths. I am a huge fan of BMW Motorcycles, but the 650 is not the bike for an extended dirt trip.

I promise to buy you a beer the next time I see you.

The 525 runs great at 75 mph on the highway. Honestly, I haven't ran it on the highway at that speed for more than 30 miles at a time. I live close to the moonrocks. With more gear than a backpack and bar mounted GPS your guess would be as good as mine as how it handles, but my guess would be it would handle it.

 

[goodtimes]

If you guys are losing fenders and 'possum scrapers without them getting up close and personal with a solid object, BMW needs to get the bikes back. That would annoy just about anyone (including me).

And yes, the GS is a bit on the low side compared to the other dual sports, but again, it really is more of street/semi-improved surface kind of bike. The Dakar gives you an extra 2.1" or so, and you can increase the preload on the rear spring if you really want to....but it is still short, and heavy....

So did you drag the trailer through little sluice?

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Towing the trailer through the little sluice, sounds like trailercide to me. No, the trailer did not and will not go through the little sluice. It did old and big, but I really don't like body damage. I posted pics over on the jeep side.

 

[calamaridog]

How about some pics of the KTM in this thread too:beer:

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Top one is the 07 model which is street legal, the bottom one is the 05 model which is almost the same bike but not street legal

 

[Scott Brady]

Has anyone fit some paniers to this beast?

Me like :elkgrin:

 

[Hltoppr]

Dirt Bagz Panniers

http://www.moto-sportpanniers.com/dirtbagz/index.html


I had these on my XRL (the Ranger size)....gotta pack light...but they work great.

-H-

 

[MountainBiker]

I'm new to this board, but I've been riding offroad and dual-sport for 20 years.

Perhaps the best bike that meets your requirements is a KLR650 (the old one, not the new for '07 model). I rode that thing everywhere, including 600 mile days on the pavement, to 300 mile days in the desert sand (this is tough) to 150 mile days on REAL singletrack 6-12" wide! You will want to get an aftermarket shock and re-valve the fork for better performance though. The KLR has an extensive following for adventure touring, and there are some good aftermarket products and a whole bunch of internet sites to research.

I put 20k miles of abusive riding on my old KLR, and at that point, it did need a valve job since the intake valves were very worn. Worn intake valves have been the end of life failure for all my 4-stroke bikes that I've kept long enough to wear out: '86 KLR650, '98 KLX300, '03 KTM450EXC. My theory is that dirt always makes it past the air filter and deposits on the intake valves, tearing them up.

I also had a '94 Honda XR650L, but I didn't like it enough to put more than about 5000 miles on it. This would be my second choice bike to meet your criteria.

I'm gonna thow out the Bimmer, it isn't in the same class as the other bikes.
I'm also gonna throw out the KTM450/525 (even though this is still my primary bike!) The gas mileage is horrible compared to the other bikes, and the vibration is very high. It also doesn't have much frame support out back to support a heavy load when going through the sand whoops. If I was 20 years old though, I might really try to make the KTM work, since it is the most fun to ride, and will allow you to maintain the highest speed off-road. The suspension is awesome offroad compared to the other bikes, and of course it has the lowest weight by far, but getting it to meet the 200 mile range will be very difficult.

I went back and looked at your list and saw the DRZ400S. My brother put a lot of miles on the DRZ400S, and I'd place it at the top of the list if you spend a lot of time on singletrack or if you plan to be picking the bike up off the ground a lot.

KLR vs. XR-L vs. DRZ400S, on your requirements
1. Reliability above all else: They are all excellent in this regard. Have to give the nod to the XR for the easier valve adjustment (threaded adjusters while the KLR and DRZ require shims) and the lack of radiators to bust when you crash.
2. Off-Road performance: DRZ and XR are about tied for the win, but they are not so far ahead of the KLR as you'd think. Stock suspension of the XR and DRZ are decent enough to leave in place, KLR needs a suspension upgrade, but the shorter travel is enough for all but 12" deep ruts. EDIT: all the bikes will be better off with stiffer springs to handle your 3-5 days of camping gear.
3. On-Road safety and handling
Slow, twisty pavement: KLR and DRZ both far exceed the XR! I used to regularly drag the pegs on the KLR! (hey, I'm an ex-roadracer)
Long stretches of highway: KLR wins by far! XR is much more buzzy, gets worse gas mileage, and has less outright horsepower, and the XR even has a narrower power band. That little KLR fairing actually directs the air enough to help reduce neck strain, and since it is frame mounted, it is easy to install a slightly bigger fairing. Then you'll be ready to use the 300+ mile range of that gas tank! The DRZ is a bit underpowered, but it is less buzzy than the XR. All of them have decent brakes, but the KLR is the most underbraked bike in this bunch.
4. 200 mile off-road range: KLR is ready to go. The worst mileage I ever got on that thing was about 33mpg. I didn't have as much time on the XR, but it always had a worse mileage than the KLR, so you'll be hard pressed to get 200 hard off-road miles out of that thing. Fast graded dirt roads will be no problem, but deep sand and some hill climbs will kill the mileage. The gas mileage of the DRZ should exceed the KLR, so just make sure you can get a large enough aftermarket gas tank.
5. Ability to fit bags for 3-5 days of camping. Possibly longer: This will be difficult for any bike, but the KLR and DRZ650 will do the best, followed by the DRZ4 and then lastly the XR.

 

[Scott Brady]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. The KLR keeps sifting to the top of many peoples lists.

Your real world experience with these bikes mean a lot!