HJZ79 in the U.S.?

[Containerized]

For the past few years, I've lived in markets where the 70 Series pickup is available (with various motors) and I've thought it was an excellent choice. Here in Uganda, it seems to have few competitors... honestly, the last-generation Hilux might (somewhat ironically) be its biggest competitor, particularly in single cab, one tonne configuration. I'd say a third of the pickups I see are 70 Series variants.

Further, in South Sudan and Kenya (where there is substantial spending on new vehicles in the one tonne and .75 tonne classes), the 70 Series seems to do admirably in not only competing with its little brother (the Hilux) but also in fending off competition from the Defender 110 and 130 pickup and from the Nissan Hardbody NV (the Titan does not exist in any African market).

I realise the 70 Series faces many of the same challenges that caused the Defender to leave the U.S. market with the NAS '97 series production. As a graduate student, I owned a 1995 D90 NAS ST and it was a great truck (I had the R-series transmission), but didn't have airbags or any of the other equipment the U.S. later mandated. Whenever I drive a 70 Series, whether it's a pickup or a TX, I'm struck by many of the same characteristics.

Yet, I have to think there is space in the North American market for a utilitarian pickup with strong, easy-to-maintain diesels like this. Or have I just been outside the States for too many years and now I'm "out of touch"? I have to admit, I've never driven or ridden in an F-150, and I've never had a job in the U.S. that actually required a pickup truck (or that didn't require a suit and tie, for that matter...), so maybe I just don't understand the magical mixture of things the American buyer wants. But the 70 Series is an awfully attractive combination of simplicity, reliability, and endurance (even when subjected to substantial abuse or very difficult environments).

Thoughts on this? Particularly the HJZ79 Pickup with the D4D and the newer, all-steel 5-speed (I drove one today from Jinja up to the Albertine Nile region here in Uganda) would be a terrific vehicle, in my opinion.

Am I way off base? Thought this a timely topic to bring up with the Expo 7 team posting from their 70 Series in NYC.

 

[goodtimes]

I see two problems.

First - the vehicles you describe simply aren't available here.

Second - the "truck" market in the US is flooded with people who like the *idea* of a truck - but they don't really want a truck. They want a car that looks like a truck.

The number of people who actually want a truck is pretty small (relative to the entire population). To further the problem, those people who actually do want a truck are likely to buy a durable vehicle and take care of it - so they aren't buying a new one every couple years like the *typical* American.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Here you go...

 

[1911]

Yet, I have to think there is space in the North American market for a utilitarian pickup with strong, easy-to-maintain diesels like this. ... the 70 Series is an awfully attractive combination of simplicity, reliability, and endurance (even when subjected to substantial abuse or very difficult environments).

Thoughts on this? Particularly the HJZ79 Pickup with the D4D and the newer, all-steel 5-speed

This topic (or at least very similar ones) has been heavily debated here on ExPo already. I would buy one in preference to any other pickup in the market today - if I could buy it new here in the states, without all the hassle of importing and etc. But yeah, the actual market for them here is not big enough to tempt Toyota to jump through the hoops to get them DOT approved, or they would have done so already. This policy of Toyota's may not be to my liking, but I'm willing to bet that they understand the real market for any car or truck much better than I do.

 

[David Harris]

The main problem besides lack of enough buyers here for such a vehicle, is the fact that these trucks are not designed to meet any required safety standards, and to do so would mean a redesign of the vehicle which would change it into something more like other American 4x4's and trucks, i.e. not a Land Cruiser 70. This is the same reason the Defender has never come here in any significant numbers, and why the next Defender, if it comes here, will be a much different vehicle from the one we all know and love.

The Land Cruiser 70 is way outdated technology, and has been from the beginning. That's why it works in third world countries so well. It's basic and durable and can be repaired by anyone, and its normally aspirated diesels can run on any quality fuel, meaning poor quality, found in its markets. It's slow, but reliable. This is the way of the Land Cruiser 70. Is it the best performing 4x4 in a technical sense, or the most comfortable to drive? Not by a long shot. Most other serious professional market vehicles, like the Defender and the Gelandewagen outperform it off-road. It's the simplicity and reliability that keep it on Toyota's production list in certain markets where it is appreciated. I don't think it would be here in the U.S.

David

 

[grimbo]

Yes they are designed to meet safety standards, just not US based ones. Doesn't make them any less safe.

They just aren't a vehicle that fits a big enough market within the US for Toyota to put them into


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[David Harris]

Yes they are designed to meet safety standards, just not US based ones. Doesn't make them any less safe.

They just aren't a vehicle that fits a big enough market within the US for Toyota to put them into.



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Yes. He was asking about the U.S. market. What kind of safety equipment do these trucks have outside of seat belts/head restraints, anyway?

Another thing is that in the markets where it is offered the relative cost of the LC 70 is astronomical for such a simple vehicle. If it were offered in the U.S. people would look at such a spartan vehicle with such a high price tag and walk the other way. . . Again, same with the Defender, etc. . .

 

[Elbee]

"Goodtimes" pretty much summed it up. I've been to Uganda as well and the Hilux and the 70 series with their diesel engines would be phenomenal over here. A lot of it is due to archaic tariffs that add 30% (i think) increase on the price tag of any land-cruiser that toyota sells in the states. So Toyota has in turn had to slowly make them more of luxury centered due to the increased price tag. Also there is a cultural issue of Americans wanting the biggest and baddest truck, where they can haul 4,000 pounds doing 70mph uphill. Or they only thing of trucks as full size beasts that are overqualified for hauling some mulch and lumber. I think we can see this trend starting to reverse as somewhat as the popularity of tacomas have seemed to skyrocket in the past five years or so. Some say the Tacoma is just like a hilux, that for the most part is not true, there are a lot of small things on the hilux that make it so nice to work with. One example it the rear cab guard/ roll bar is great it even has little metal hings that flip out to prevent your load from sliding off, also the looks of the new model ( which i think is bigger than the Tacoma) are baller and it comes i diesel, need i say more?

Hopefully Toyota and other car manufacturer will get their head out of the sand and figure out that the vehicles that sell like crazy overseas also would have a market in North America. The obstacles that need to be overcome is hte broad acceptance of diesel in the US (US car markets are seriously brain dead to diesel market, beyond full size trucks) diesels are economical and reliable and Europe has used them forever, we should stop being screwed over by the fact that some US car makers made horrible diesels back in the 80s. I
I think many of us would collapse with utter joy if the 70 series was brought to the US, and it would pay huge dividends if Toyota marketed it right. They should show farmers that it is work truck that is more nimble and economical than their big full size trucks and if they did a campaign of showing it as a work horse for the rough hardworking american (construction, forest service, Oil industry, ranch) it would sell. The quality and durability is already there.

I also believe that sooner or later the diesel packages that we covet overseas will eventually make it to our shores ( i hope)

Also... I think the simplicity of the 70 series and hilux ( which are why they are wonderful) are somewhat of a turn off to the average american. The average american wants heated seats, sat nav, wifi, pretty colors, and flashing lights that do minuscule things that add no real value and just to the list of items that can break.



I think it would be great to get a Toyota representative on this site to hear what the we are all trying to say and also to maybe dis-spell any myths or stereotypes of why Toyota does what does currently. Maybe there already is one....

 

[REDrum]

Sadly, very sadly, this thread is like sex in the champagne room....it ain't gunna happen....

 

[zimm]

the people who think a 70 is a better pickup either dont use pickups or are dreamers of one sort or another.

say you need a one ton for a job...

f350 6.7 diesel or a seventy series.... really? if you think they compare, youre an idiot.

there isnt a single statistic, including longevity, that the 70 will beat it. a 70 wont carry near the same load, wont tow the same load, wont be as comfortable... nothing. its a small heavy duty truck in place that has no use for a small heavy duty truck because we have the space to use large heavy duty trucks.

its just a bunch of people that want what they cant have here, and wouldnt buy one when presented with the price tag and the reality that they dont have a single use for it besides the fun of answering gawker questions while picking up a load of mushroom manure, that would have fit just as well in a ford ranger. if toyota rolled this out they would have an edsle on their hands and they know it.

im not sure who the bigger wannabe is, the guy that has the 1/2 ton quad cab king ranch, or the people that keep bemoaning the 70 series, as if they have a use a tacoma wouldnt fill anyway.

 

[REDrum]

say you need a one ton for a job...

f350 6.7 diesel or a seventy series.... really?

Frances....I don't see a lot of discussion here that 70 series trucks are in the ring with a F350, or F250 for that matter. Very different trucks, each with pros and cons and specific user markets.

However, I'll share, that in Costa Rica, where you can buy both US full size pick-ups and the full range of toyota trucks, US pick-ups are the choice for professional construction and agricultural use---like here in the US. And, 85% of EMT/Ambulance and telecom (ICE) trucks down there are built on series 70 platforms, as well as other government and NGO trucks. But for highland coffee estates, the preferred platform is, still, (old) Series 88 Land Rovers. So, given the option, people and organizations in the US may choose a 70, if offered, but I doubt it will take away from full size PU sales.

To para-quote a previous poster, most SUVs and trucks in the US sold to consumers are for ornamental use only. The US market killed the Land Rover brand

PAX

 

[haven]

"[USA is a] place that has no use for a small heavy duty truck because we have the space to use large heavy duty trucks"

DING DING DING DING We have a winner! The reason small trucks with large capacity won't survive in the USA market is the same reason why small trucks with small capacity have not fared well. There are precious few places in USA where a narrower work vehicle is required.

The need for increased fuel economy may have manufacturers offering smaller pickup trucks in the future, but they will not be replacements for the F350.

It's interesting to consider why so-called compact trucks have gradually grown larger and larger, even in the developing world. The new Toyota HiLux is considerably larger, and carries a larger payload, than the HiLux of 15 years ago.

 

[Containerized]

Good points here. I think another factor is that off-road ability (which the 70 Series has plenty of) is important in a country like Uganda where there are two paved roads... or a country like DRC where a road might be paved one year and destroyed a few years later. But the U.S. is the land of seven-meter-long parking spots and wide highways where people complain about potholes that would be considered divots here in East Africa. The F350 and other trucks can be designed around different goals because they don't need to worry about being off-road 90% of their lives or being maintained by bush mechanics.

I'll be in the U.S. in September for essentially the whole month... maybe I need to drive an F-series truck and see what it's like.

 

[REDrum]

in a country like Uganda where there are two paved roads... or a country like DRC where a road might be paved one year and destroyed a few years later

LOL...same in central america. I've seen freshly rebuilt 80kph gravel roads reduced to 20kph trails (due to incessant 30cm deep potholes) in a matter of days. Outside of US and western europe, "roads" (and bridges) are highly subjective....

 

[subytoy]

I have an F150 and a Land Cruiser. Both are 1994s. The Ford doesn't even come close to the Toyota in terms of quality. I would buy a small diesel pickup if one were available. That being said, and has been said earlier in this thread, Americans want the biggest and most powerful things they can get so our choices are limited to very big trucks.

I plan to keep my old stuff running as long as possible...