Hold my Coffee ! another manual transmission swap thread

[cynicwanderer]

Ok, Parker 250 motorcycle race is all done. the drive down and back is 9.5hrs/630miles each way and I was day dreaming about what it would be like to have the manual already installed... the truetrac lockers performed great in the pit area, which was lose sandy stuff. there was a big Class A motor home that got stuck, probably not the vehicle of choice for me for this kind of stuff.



I have all the parts ready, and I'm trying to find a place to do the swap. my garage is not big enough to park the van (it's extended, and would stick out). my driveway is at a slope. I have been shopping around to find a workshop to rent for a month, but most landlords are not that flexible and won't allow automotive repairs (this is California). Ideally, I would like to find a coop of some sort that, like the maker spaces that are popping up, you pay a membership and have access to the shop which has amenities, like a lift, compressed air, etc...

All this overthinking made me wonder what people do "on the road" when making major repairs. Has anyone done any roadside transmission pulls ? what makes the job easier ? maybe I should evolve this into a roadside transmission pull/clutch swap exercise and work out the tools/technique I need. I.e. how to I safely lift the transmission off and on the motor.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I've done roadside engine swaps, transmission swaps, driveshafts...can't recall replacing a solid-axle but I've done CV shafts. A floor jack can substitute for a real transmission jack and ratchet straps can even work in a pinch. Dropping the tire pressure can make a short jack taller. A big lever can also work. Don't think I'd pull a 7.3 with a chainfall hung from a tree limb but I've swapped 289s that way. Swapped DRW axles in a carpet store parking lot. Their forklift sure was handy. Swapped blowers in a bank drive-thru on a rainy night. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Bikersmurf]

I've done roadside engine swaps, transmission swaps, driveshafts...can't recall replacing a solid-axle but I've done CV shafts. A floor jack can substitute for a real transmission jack and ratchet straps can even work in a pinch. Dropping the tire pressure can make a short jack taller. A big lever can also work. Don't think I'd pull a 7.3 with a chainfall hung from a tree limb but I've swapped 289s that way. Swapped DRW axles in a carpet store parking lot. Their forklift sure was handy. Swapped blowers in a bank drive-thru on a rainy night. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I’m impressed. It surprises me to read some of the things people tow a vehicle to the shop over... I avoid tow bills at all costs. That said, maybe others don’t have to bend over for a tow. Last time I got quotes, it was $150-200 to tow a small vehicle two minutes down the road near the city centre. I’m sure my rig would be a $500 tow for a short distance.

 

[cynicwanderer]

I’m impressed. It surprises me to read some of the things people tow a vehicle to the shop over... I avoid tow bills at all costs. That said, maybe others don’t have to bend over for a tow. Last time I got quotes, it was $150-200 to tow a small vehicle two minutes down the road near the city centre. I’m sure my rig would be a $500 tow for a short distance.

I try to avoid tows if possible. I have some roadside assistance and have used their free tow (short distance) just to the get vehicle to a safe place that I can work on it. so far, the worst repair I have had to do on the road, is stuff like starters, alternators, belt tensioners, etc... with smaller vehicle, I will just get my van and a dolly from u-haul and tow it home myself. paying to tow big stuff is expensive. once you hit 1ton vehicles like F-350 or E-350, they consider it "commercial" and really hit you up for it.

I guess I'm considering doing the swap in my inclined drivway, for practice. I might hit the gym and train before that, I'm thinking bench presses and pushups, etc...

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Put a 4L80E in a buddy's van kinda creatively. We were south of the border and had no tools and even less cash. Built cradles out of all-thread and angle iron. The angle went under the trans and a threaded rod went on each end. Drilled holes in the floor and slid the rods through then used plywood to spread the weight. Tightening the nuts raised the trans. One cradle as far forward as possible and one as far back as possible kept it stable. A ratchet strap sucked the trans forward to the block.

 

[cynicwanderer]

Put a 4L80E in a buddy's van kinda creatively. We were south of the border and had no tools and even less cash. Built cradles out of all-thread and angle iron. The angle went under the trans and a threaded rod went on each end. Drilled holes in the floor and slid the rods through then used plywood to spread the weight. Tightening the nuts raised the trans. One cradle as far forward as possible and one as far back as possible kept it stable. A ratchet strap sucked the trans forward to the block.

thats' great ! I was thinking about cutting some "access" holes in the floor to help with the lift. I do usually carry ratched straps anyway, and I have a hand winch... I have changed small manuals transmission in cars by hand, but I'm not sure how much a E4OD weights. it looks heavy ! I can lift the ZF5, but it's near my limit.

 

[Bikersmurf]

~ 270 lbs w/ converter

I'd not want to lift one myself. Local tool rental could have a jack... or build a cradle to fit a floor jack

 

[cynicwanderer]

~ 270 lbs w/ converter

I'd not want to lift one myself. Local tool rental could have a jack... or build a cradle to fit a floor jack

that is pretty hefty to be underneath... I do have a transmission jack, I just have to make a cradle for it and a some kind of ramp to level the driveway underneath so it doesn't roll away...

 

[Bikersmurf]

that is pretty hefty to be underneath... I do have a transmission jack, I just have to make a cradle for it and a some kind of ramp to level the driveway underneath so it doesn't roll away...

Could you do it in front of your house?

Getting the heavier transmission down will be the easier part... lifting the new one up will be the harder part.

 

[cynicwanderer]

Could you do it in front of your house?

Getting the heavier transmission down will be the easier part... lifting the new one up will be the harder part.

well, I could do it in the street in front of the house, if it was just a simple swap and got it done in a day or two. however, I have to fabricate some things (like the cross member and a new driveshaft) once I have the new transmission in there and that might take a few days or so. we have a city ordinance that prohibits "repairs" on the street, so it would be risky if I can't get it running... they'll just tag it and tow it.

I tend to overthink things, but once I actually get going on a project, I'm good at improvising and things normally move along quickly. I have a little less than two months before the next race (Mint400) to get this done, need to clean out the garage, move the trooper project into the garage to make space on the driveway for the van and then do the swap, and have a driveshaft modified/made, luckily the race bike didn't grenade during the last race, so it's pretty much ready to go and only needs a oil change, a fuse and a seal replaced.

 

[Bikersmurf]

well, I could do it in the street in front of the house, if it was just a simple swap and got it done in a day or two. however, I have to fabricate some things (like the cross member and a new driveshaft) once I have the new transmission in there and that might take a few days or so. we have a city ordinance that prohibits "repairs" on the street, so it would be risky if I can't get it running... they'll just tag it and tow it.

I tend to overthink things, but once I actually get going on a project, I'm good at improvising and things normally move along quickly. I have a little less than two months before the next race (Mint400) to get this done, need to clean out the garage, move the trooper project into the garage to make space on the driveway for the van and then do the swap, and have a driveshaft modified/made, luckily the race bike didn't grenade during the last race, so it's pretty much ready to go and only needs a oil change, a fuse and a seal replaced.

Makes sense. If you were able to pull it apart Friday night and pull it up the driveway Sunday... down side of being in the city.

When I swapped a SBC into my Fj40 it was all the little things that took up time.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Hope you don't mind me using your thread for a question. It's a "what would you do" type thing.

I bought a complete running van to get the M5OD out of with driveshaft, axle, pedals, column, etc. I drove it about 200 miles home without much issue. The trans needs shift bushings and an oil change FOR SURE but should be good after that I think.

I've located another van I might buy for parts. It has a 4 speed overdrive transmission. I know nothing for certain of its condition. It is reputed to be a complete van with nothing wrong but a failed ECU.

The 5 speed has more and arguably better ratios. The 5 speed has an internal slave cylinder, transmissionmust be removed to replace. The 5 speed shifter comes through the doghouse which might complicate a drink tray/console and the move from driving to the couch.

The 4 speed has fewer and arguably less ideal ratios. The 4 speed has an external slave cylinder, can be swapped in under an hour. The 4 speed shifter comes through the floor next to the driver's seat which is less in the way for moving about, etc.

So, what would you do?

 

[cynicwanderer]

Hope you don't mind me using your thread for a question. It's a "what would you do" type thing.

I bought a complete running van to get the M5OD out of with driveshaft, axle, pedals, column, etc. I drove it about 200 miles home without much issue. The trans needs shift bushings and an oil change FOR SURE but should be good after that I think.

I've located another van I might buy for parts. It has a 4 speed overdrive transmission. I know nothing for certain of its condition. It is reputed to be a complete van with nothing wrong but a failed ECU.

The 5 speed has more and arguably better ratios. The 5 speed has an internal slave cylinder, transmissionmust be removed to replace. The 5 speed shifter comes through the doghouse which might complicate a drink tray/console and the move from driving to the couch.

The 4 speed has fewer and arguably less ideal ratios. The 4 speed has an external slave cylinder, can be swapped in under an hour. The 4 speed shifter comes through the floor next to the driver's seat which is less in the way for moving about, etc.

So, what would you do?

I don't know what engine you are running, so it depends. if it has limited rev range, like a diesel (my 7.3 IDI has a 3800rpm redline), I'd go with a 5 or 6 speed, especially if you plan to do a lot of mountain driving or towing/hauling. if you don't plan to haul/tow much or have a gas engine that can rev to 5k or more, then a 4 speed with OD would be OK.

the external slave is definitely a plus. I have replaced a couple of slaves on my vehicles over the year and I was very glad they were all external, on the other hand, I have never had to replaced a slave on any of my transmission which were internal. I don't know if having the slave internal protects it from the elements and thus have less seal wear, or whether the construction of a internal slave is different enough to make them last longer. if you go with the internal slave, I would install a new slave with the highest quality (probably OEM), before installing the transmission. also, definitely install a new clutch either way and new throw out bearings.

make a table of the max torque vs. max HP RPM and the actual road speeds with either transmission for your engine and rear ratios/tire size. this will indicate the max./min. shift point and give you an idea how drive able it would be, i.e. a big gap would make it harder to shift up on a hill with load.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I don't know what engine you are running, so it depends. if it has limited rev range, like a diesel (my 7.3 IDI has a 3800rpm redline), I'd go with a 5 or 6 speed, especially if you plan to do a lot of mountain driving or towing/hauling. if you don't plan to haul/tow much or have a gas engine that can rev to 5k or more, then a 4 speed with OD would be OK.

the external slave is definitely a plus. I have replaced a couple of slaves on my vehicles over the year and I was very glad they were all external, on the other hand, I have never had to replaced a slave on any of my transmission which were internal. I don't know if having the slave internal protects it from the elements and thus have less seal wear, or whether the construction of a internal slave is different enough to make them last longer. if you go with the internal slave, I would install a new slave with the highest quality (probably OEM), before installing the transmission. also, definitely install a new clutch either way and new throw out bearings...

Gas engine but peaks at 3,400 rpm and is all done before 4k so basically a diesel in that regard. Internal slaves have twice as many seal surfaces and seal areas are much, much larger on internal slaves. Internal slaves must deal with clutch dust and heat. Both styles typically have protective boots. Externals typically travel farther and faster. If I had to guess I'd say their average service lives are about the same length. Externals are just easier to change and less likely to leak brake fluid on the clutch disc.

 

[cynicwanderer]

OK, spring BITD race season is pretty much over for me and summer is staring. I parked the van in the driveway where I plan to do the swap and started working on some incline platforms so the jacks have a level place to plant... also, our 30 some year old A/C decided not to come back to live this year. why does that matter ? because after talking with the A/C contractor about replacing the A/C, I learned that I will need to move the van so they can get the crane in there to install the new roof A/C unit in a couple of weeks. good thing I didn't start the swap. the "cool" thing about the A/C guy; it turns out he is a co-driver for one of the Class 11 teams that races SCORE Baja 1000. small world ! meanwhile, here are some pics from the finish of the last race...